Ranchers.net Bull Session

 
Log in Register Ranchers.net Ranchers.net's Bull Session Forum Index FAQ Memberlist Search


Pictures of our Charolais Cross Steers to be sold on Wed.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Ranchers.net's Bull Session Forum Index -> Ranch Talk
Author Message
Oldtimer
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24734
Location: Northeast Montana
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
sw
Quote:
Also, from reading your posts, your sale barns are probably better run than what we have here and you don't have to walk past the national office of that protectionist group to get to the sale ring


sw- How about the Lewistown Yard?-- I've always been treated well by Lyle Allen- and always thought of him as a straight shooter....Also the yard up here in Glasgow will do anything to work with you on either selling or buying...Let you bring in early or leave in the yard a few days to arrange transportation out-- one of the reasons the buyers like the yard and many times tops Miles or Billings in prices...Iva Murch and the crew have always done good by me- and when she tells you something you can about count it as gospel....

I've never had a problem with Miles City either- but usually that has only been with horse trading....

Maybe you are being blinded a little by the LMA/Goggins/R-CALF bias-eh Wink Laughing I'd hate folks around the country to think that there are no good sales yards in Montana...
Back to top
High Plains
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 695
Location: Nebraska
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Maybe you are being blinded a little by the LMA/Goggins/R-CALF bias-eh I'd hate folks around the country to think that there are no good sales yards in Montana...


Oldtimer, since you started it... Some voices are just louder than others! Those printing presses are notorious for spreading information far and wide. Laughing There again, some folks preach one thing and then turn around and do another. Wink Me thinks there's profit involved.

The one area that hasn't been touched on is the forward contract feature that is not available when running cattle through the sale barn. No it sure doesn't work to the positive every time, but any calf that went through the sale in November and December '06 had a different value than those sold earlier in the year. Next year the opposite might be true. Just another feature of marketing that deserves attention.

Enjoying this topic Exclamation
Back to top
sw
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 1374
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OT, the receipts at Lewistown and Miles City have gone way up in the last couple of years because they are providing a better service to customers. After a few bad experiences with Billings, most neighbors we have are going to Miles City, Bart Meged is from here so most people know him. So far the higher prices have offset the mileage. When you take a load of cows down to Pays, nothing wrong with any of them except they were open, and you get your check from them and one of the cows on the check is listed "as is" and brings 18 cents versus 50-60 for the rest of them and you call to find out what was wrong with the cow and the office says she had a broken leg that she did not have when she was unloaded and they won't do anything about it, it is not bias against anybody. Compared notes with a neighbor and he had the same thing happen to him and nobody would return his calls when he called to find out what happened to his cow. They have different people working everytime you're in there which is probably most of the problem
Back to top
Oldtimer
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24734
Location: Northeast Montana
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sw wrote:
OT, the receipts at Lewistown and Miles City have gone way up in the last couple of years because they are providing a better service to customers. After a few bad experiences with Billings, most neighbors we have are going to Miles City, Bart Meged is from here so most people know him. So far the higher prices have offset the mileage. When you take a load of cows down to Pays, nothing wrong with any of them except they were open, and you get your check from them and one of the cows on the check is listed "as is" and brings 18 cents versus 50-60 for the rest of them and you call to find out what was wrong with the cow and the office says she had a broken leg that she did not have when she was unloaded and they won't do anything about it, it is not bias against anybody. Compared notes with a neighbor and he had the same thing happen to him and nobody would return his calls when he called to find out what happened to his cow. They have different people working everytime you're in there which is probably most of the problem


Yep-- that would upset me- especially since you have already probably paid an insurance fee to cover for that....I've never had that problem up here-- as the Glasgow Stockyards take could care to try and keep folks happy and several of the folks they have working there have been around for 15-20 years, going back to the days when Fjeldheim owned the yards... And I know they end up paying out quite a few insurance claims on cattle- which is bound to happen when you are working thousands of head in all weather conditions.....
They've really been good to work with when I needed to drop a horse and leave for someone to pick up/or for me to pick one up... Same with selling cattle- I've had a couple times when I took a small bunch of calves in- and the buyers will single one out as looking wrong- or sick, and I wasn't there--so they'd just buy it back for me and give me a call rather than let some buyer steal it for half price...They've also always done me good advertising when I was selling horses- altho this area is not much of a horse market anymore unless you have an old saddle horse that is a good kids horse.....

A sales barn is not something I'd ever want to own or to run-- as you definitely will never be able to keep everyone happy- especially a bunch of ranchers/farmers who all think their cattle is best and can't understand why someone got a higher price-- and a few of the buyers who think their sh*t don't stink and expect you to jump to their every whim... Rolling Eyes Laughing

The hardest thing we have had in keeping up here the last 10 years has been Brand Inspectors- state just doesn't pay enough when competing with oil rig and railroad jobs....Got so bad for awhile I couldn't even remember who was here and who had left....
Back to top
JF Ranch
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 436
Location: North Fringe of the Nebraska Sandhills
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
High Plains wrote:
Quote:
Maybe you are being blinded a little by the LMA/Goggins/R-CALF bias-eh I'd hate folks around the country to think that there are no good sales yards in Montana...


The one area that hasn't been touched on is the forward contract feature that is not available when running cattle through the sale barn. No it sure doesn't work to the positive every time, but any calf that went through the sale in November and December '06 had a different value than those sold earlier in the year. Next year the opposite might be true. Just another feature of marketing that deserves attention.

Enjoying this topic Exclamation


Just because a sale barn doesn't offer hedging or options, doesn't mean it is not available. Any competent broker can get you into whatever you want. I've done it that way a few times on feeder cattle that were sold at auction.

I don't have a high opinion of using these contracts though. I'm sure they work very well for some people who know what they are doing. I don't. I made money one year and lost that money and more the next.

What they are designed to do is take the risk out of the business. In other words you eliminate the lows as well as the highs. So you sell for somewhere in the middle. By selling on the market year in and year out, you get the highs and you get the lows, so it averages out somewhere in the middle. It then becomes a wash.

Admittedly, I'm talking about something I don't have vast knowlege or experience in and I'm sure someone will challenge me on this, but from my limited exposure, I don't care for it.
Back to top
Oldtimer
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24734
Location: Northeast Montana
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep- JF ranch thats about what I've seen too...Many that are tied tight to the bank payments are almost forced to contract early in order to get that guaranteed amount to keep the financing coming- but in the last 6 years, around here overall most the top prices actually came if you held out until Oct or later to sell- either direct to a buyer or thru the barn....2001 was an early contract year because 9/11 busted the market down--but then the next few years the prices actually went higher in most cases if you waited rather than if you contracted in June- Aug-- then again this year the market dove down below what the earlier contracts were....

One works better for some than for others-- just like retaining ownership...

The one point I wanted to make is the importance of the Sales Barns...Ours closed for financial reasons years ago, and you don't reallize how important it was - until it wasn't there...Just selling a few old cows or a broken tooled bull became a challenge- hauling 150 miles to the nearest barn- or taking the price of the 1 bull/cow buyer that would come around weekly and give you what he wanted to....The whole community felt a terrific negative impact...I was really pleased when the Yards was able to open under new ownership- and I don't even complain about those commission costs anymore- as I figure they are providing me a service and as long as they do a good job of it, its worth the cost....
Back to top
Denny
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 4411
Location: Mn usa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldtimer wrote:
Yep- JF ranch thats about what I've seen too...Many that are tied tight to the bank payments are almost forced to contract early in order to get that guaranteed amount to keep the financing coming- but in the last 6 years, around here overall most the top prices actually came if you held out until Oct or later to sell- either direct to a buyer or thru the barn....2001 was an early contract year because 9/11 busted the market down--but then the next few years the prices actually went higher in most cases if you waited rather than if you contracted in June- Aug-- then again this year the market dove down below what the earlier contracts were....

One works better for some than for others-- just like retaining ownership...

The one point I wanted to make is the importance of the Sales Barns...Ours closed for financial reasons years ago, and you don't reallize how important it was - until it wasn't there...Just selling a few old cows or a broken tooled bull became a challenge- hauling 150 miles to the nearest barn- or taking the price of the 1 bull/cow buyer that would come around weekly and give you what he wanted to....The whole community felt a terrific negative impact...I was really pleased when the Yards was able to open under new ownership- and I don't even complain about those commission costs anymore- as I figure they are providing me a service and as long as they do a good job of it, its worth the cost....



I don't agree here many who are tied to the bank take these contract's thats not correct.

I have sold direct for the last 8 years every time I sold thru the barn they would sort the calves into several small groups and put the screws to you on a set that should have went right along with the rest.Also I sold some calves last year 1st sale after New Years 696# steers the market that day was around 1.13 per lb. I went to get my check and low and behold mine brought 93 cents then the commisions,beef tax, yardage,vet,inspection and all other fees totaled $26.78 per steer not to mention the schrink put on them by the intensive sorting and standing around.I figured that day cost me $165 per head.When we sell direct we haul our calves to the local cattlemens scale yard sort for sex and get them across the scale weighed payed and loaded back on the pots by noon the local barn's sale is just starting at noon.

Forward contracts are used by people who market their cattle not the what do you give me crowd but it has nothing to do with debt..

I understand salebarns have a place but if they can't operate in a fair and honest manner they don't deserve any of my business.Pay's sounds like our local barn the owners own cattle and they use the barn to sell their put together herds for top price then buyback cattle all afternoon for cheap money to put together load lots they either put in their backgrounding pen's or make up load lot's which they are order buying for.It's all legal but don't expect me to help in their process of screwing me.
Last spring we hauled 32 550#s calves to Hub Livestock in Aberdeen SD 330 miles from home we got there at 2:00pm had the check in hand by 3:30 after trucking expenses I figured we came ahead $2100 over what our local barn could have done we gave them the chance but they would'nt adjust their heavy commissions which would have totaled around $25 per head at Hub it was $9.71 per head.Fuel cost was $165 differance in fuel and commisions we came ahead $324 not to mention the extra 10 to 15 cents per lb. more recieved at Hub Livestock.If you have a honest barn in your area thats great but when we dont we have to do other things.Also the company that owns the Motley salebarn owns every barn in a 100 mile radius except one.They also own several in eastern south and north dakota not a good thing they even bought 1/2 ownership in the Herried barn one thing these barns have in common the all have an R-CALF sign hanging on the wall.Listen to a barn owner talk we should sell our calves at 400,700,900 and slaughter weight each time they get a commission from the sale thats how it use to be.Not much different than a used car salesman.When profit margins are slim there is no room for multiple commissions.

We sold our calves in august for nov. delivery at 1.25 per lb. 5 cent slide at 600#s slide went both directions payed $1 checkoff and $1 weigh fee plus yearly dues to our assn of $40 plus an add in our catalog when all tallied it cost about $2.75 per head to market my calves not to mention the 15 to 25 cents more we reciEved over Nov cash feeder prices .At an even market we would need 7 cents more per lb. just to pay commisions and shrink that would never happen here because the 1/2 dozen calves they sort off and say (These are to bottom end of these calves that just did'nt quite fit) I had that happen one time my bottom end calves weighed 65#s more then the large group but it worked I left with that grab your ankles feeling.But dont worry those 2 400# dink calves brought $1.50 topped the market wooo hooo.
Back to top
Oldtimer
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24734
Location: Northeast Montana
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I don't agree here many who are tied to the bank take these contract's thats not correct.


Denny-- I know of several fellas that pretty much got told by their banker they better be contracting when the price got so high....That banker wants to make sure his annual payment is covered for all those cows he owns....Many of the brands up here have the bank liens right on them... And I know of a few cases where they were kicking themselves in the rear because if they'd waited later to sell direct or thru they yard they would have made another $15-$20 @cwt... Don't always work that way tho--sometimes its the opposite way around....

And even if you don't precontract you can sell direct- if you have access to some buyers... I see a lot of calves sold when the neighbor is helping ship the contract calves and gets the buyer cornered and make a deal for next week....You're right that it is nice when you can avoid that commission....

Funny about all the politics you guys mention coming from the yards--don't see it up here, much...Me and a couple of buyer friends are probably the most politics you see out there-- as they belong to R-CALF too and we have to poke jabs once in awhile at one of the other buyers who used to be a strong NCBAer (waivers a little anymore Wink ) -- and he'll throw a jab back once in awhile-- but its all pretty much done in fun...Only saw it nasty once when an NCBA kid tried to disrupt one of the R-CALF rollover sales- but I think he got enough contention from his peers and his elders that he learned a little that day...
Just don't see much politics promoted by the yard.. The owner is a member of the the Dept. of Livestock Board and was appointed as a member of the group setting up the rules for the Montana M-COOL law-- and I talked with her a couple times on that to keep informed...But we're both for that....But they're not out beating any drum....
Back to top
feeder
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 951
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Denny, I have heard many negative rumblings about the outfit that owns the salebarns you are talking about. Has anyone heard if they have had a negative impact on the Herreid barn? I know last year they were trying to buy some barns in ND, but I don't know if they got the job done.
Back to top
Bullhauler
Member
Member


Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 735
Location: South Dakota
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
feeder wrote:
Denny, I have heard many negative rumblings about the outfit that owns the salebarns you are talking about. Has anyone heard if they have had a negative impact on the Herreid barn? I know last year they were trying to buy some barns in ND, but I don't know if they got the job done.


That outfit also owns the Miller, Redfield and Highmore barns. Either one of the barns in Aberdeen will outsell those three barns put together every week.
Back to top
feeder
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 951
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks bullhauler, I just hope they get out of the business soon and sell the barns to local folks.
Back to top
Denny
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 4411
Location: Mn usa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
feeder wrote:
Denny, I have heard many negative rumblings about the outfit that owns the salebarns you are talking about. Has anyone heard if they have had a negative impact on the Herreid barn? I know last year they were trying to buy some barns in ND, but I don't know if they got the job done.


I have heard they have ownership of a 1/2 dozen barns in N.D. not sure which ones.They own 6 here there is only a couple he does'nt own but they are pretty small barns.Our local barn always sold feeder calves on Friday's this year they went to selling with the regular sale their local business has really dropped off.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Ranchers.net's Bull Session Forum Index -> Ranch Talk All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 




Powered by phpBB
Copyright © 2001-2011 Ranchers.net
All times are GMT - 6 Hours