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Court: No Horse Slaughtering in Texas
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YOU EAT HORSE MEAT ?
NO,NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL
71%
 71%  [ 15 ]
YES,I EAT HORSE MEAT
28%
 28%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 21

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RoperAB
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Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I am a conservative, I believe in personal responsibility.
I believe it is the personal responsibility of the pro "show" trainer who wrecks a % of his colts, or non pros who competes in aged events.
They should have to take part in the other not so glamorous side of the show seen. It does not seem right to me that they should be able to get payed by the horse slaughter people for colts that they have ruined in the quest for buckle bunnies.
If a Non show person keeps a horse for twenty five years until the horse is no longer useful. IMO That horse has earned a dignified humane death. Thats either a bullet or a shot from a vet.
Around here coyottes will clean up a 1500lbs animal in a few days. They are also building plants up here because of BSE restrictions with cattle to turn cattle and other corpses into electricty. My understanding is that they wont be paying for corpses but they will pick them up and despose of them for you no charge. In the meantime its only going to cost a few bucks for people in populated areas to hire a hoe to burry an animal if necessary.
A few years back I had ambitions to get into Reined Cow Horse. Long story short I crippled a colt. So I went to Bouveries. What I wanted to do was make a trade. My colt was pasture sound. I knew they had tens of thousands of young colts that were 100% sound. So in my mind I thought that if I traded my colt for a sound one, that it was morally justified because I would be saving one horse from a hard death even if I was condeming another. Anyway I would have traded my 2 yo for anything that they had as long as it was sound. Even for a grade weanling<straight trade>.
They told me that they were not interested in tradeing and then he added that they wernt even interested in buying because they were now breeding their own horses for slaughter. Thats right they had their own breeding program.
BTW Claude Bouvery is the biggest horse slaughter guy around that I know of. He not only has the two big feedlots that most people know about but he owns two other<ranch type horse raiseing facilities in southern Alberta plus I think he still has that feedlot in Shelby.
ANYWAY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUY A HORSE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF IT AND DISPOSE OF IT WHEN NECESSARY AND DONT NOBODY TRY TO TELL ME ABOUT HARD TIMES BECAUSE I GARANTEE YOU I HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THE HARD TIMES THING MORE THAN what most could comprehend and there is no comparison between horses and cattle but then again why pro slaughter people like SH seem to feel they know all about the horse industry is beyond me Say what?
PS I used to be like the rest of you until I got some darn good advice and she was right! What horses sell for at auction only effect the prices of your horses unless you are selling the same type of horses.


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Faster horses
Rancher
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Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 24461
Location: SE MT

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you are passionate about this RoperAB, and I shouldn't even
try to convince you. I appreciate where you are coming from, I really
do. You have noble thoughts.

But you are wrong.

Canner horses DO affect the price of horses. It is just like
buying a car. There is a base price. The canner market is the
BASE PRICE. When that market goes down, so does the price
of horses in general.

Sure, there are still the high priced horses. But the general
horses sold are based on canner price plus what the horse can
do. How gentle it is, how old it is, how sound it is, and how broke
it is.

Anyway, we've travelled this road before, you and I. No need to
make more tracks.

I really do appreciate what you are saying. And I wish life was FAIR
to every living thing. I do what I can to make it fair when I see
something suffering. But I cannot change the world. I can only touch
a small part of it.

We have an old 28 year old horse here right now that gets special feed from Progressive Nutrition.
We love him and he looks good and he feels good. When the time comes, we will put him down right here and he will be buried on the ranch along with some of his compadres. I'm glad we can do that. We have a 22 year old horse that will get the same treatment.

This horse will be 28 years old. He has been a great horse in his day.


OR, we could sell that 22 year old horse and let someone run the legs
off him and sell him as a canner in the end anyway. That would be an
idea, sell the good old horses before they become a disposal problem.
Somehow, that doesn't set well with me either, unless you can pick a
spot that you know they will be taken care of.

Old horses are a problem. This one is our problem and we can do our
best by him because he is deserving of it. We have had some that were
not.


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RoperAB
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Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay when people on here get a cow with a broken leg or cancer eye, they dont allow it to die of thirst. You just shoot it and thats the end of it.
I honestly just dont see what the big deal is all about. I dont think anybody on here would starve one of their old dogs to death because there are no slaughter plants for dogs. You either shoot it or haul it to the vet for an injection.
Around here from what I have seen,most of the young colts that end up going to auction are grade, QHs or Paints. My impression is that the people who breed these horses are not promoting their colts in anyway and the bloodlines are not really in demand. It seems like 80% of the breeders around are breeding these types of horses and the market is always flooded and I cant see how they have ever made any money at it.
Why not breed a different breed of horse than everybody else and or then promote your horses?
Like it doesnt matter if you live next to a slaughter plant or not but if somebody is breeding horses and not promoting them. They wont make any money at it.
BTW Promotion can be anything.
I know that when I buy colts I always want colts that are born and raised running on a ranch with other colts. A colt is worth more money to me if he was raised right running in the hills, crossing creeks, jumping through brush, was used to wildlife, cows, wind and all kinds of weather. Thats another reason I wont buy from auction is because I cant see how the colt was raised.
Honest to God one time I bought an Appendix that I couldnt keep weight on because ever time a rain drop fell or a flake of snow would come down that horse would run for cover in the loafing barn! Laughing


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the_jersey_lilly_2000
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Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 11311
Location: South East Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Okay when people on here get a cow with a broken leg or cancer eye, they dont allow it to die of thirst. You just shoot it and thats the end of it."
quote RoperAB

Not necessarily. Alot of times if a cow breaks a leg..or bull they go to the salebarn for packer. Same with Cancer eye cows (I've never had any, but you do see em all the time go thru the ring)


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RoperAB
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Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_jersey_lilly_2000 wrote:
"Okay when people on here get a cow with a broken leg or cancer eye, they dont allow it to die of thirst. You just shoot it and thats the end of it."
quote RoperAB

Not necessarily. Alot of times if a cow breaks a leg..or bull they go to the salebarn for packer. Same with Cancer eye cows (I've never had any, but you do see em all the time go thru the ring)


Around here you cant take stuff like that to a sale. Or nobody that I know would do something like that for fear of getting a bad reputation with the buyers. Last month I shot two cancer eyed cows. Took my 4 yo boy with me so he can get used to seeing things get shot. Then he took the empty shell cases to preschool for show and tell.


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IL Rancher
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 3023
Location: Northwest Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about cancer eye, never had one but yes, cows that can walk but have a buisted leg go to the barn every day. Some diseases the will condemn teha nimal and than it won't go to the barn.. I have a lump jaw cow that will be shot soon because it won't bring anyhting at the barn... But we shipped one this year that was still in great condition and we got a good price for her. Why would a broken leg give you a bad name? Cows break legs, bring them in right away before anything bad happens to them as far as conditin dropping and as long as it isn't so displaced that it breaks skin their should be no infection.. An animal can be healthy but still have a broken leg.




As far asa the coyotes stripping the horse carcass bare if you shoot it and let it lay. Probably... But tat would be illegal around here wetehr it was dog, cow or horse... Can't let a carcass lay... To be hoenst, not even sure the bullet to the head is legal with horses, might have to be lethat injection.. Not sure..


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Faster horses
Rancher
Rancher


Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 24461
Location: SE MT

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Roper AB, next question.

Why did you let the cancer eyes get so bad the cows had to be shot?
We have had cancer eye in our Hereford cows something terrible
back in the 70's. We never had to shoot one. We had the eye worked
on or sold the cow before it got bad.

So you see, everyone choses a different way to deal with things.

Cancer-eyed cows, old horses. It is up to the owner.

And yes, I know. Livestock are VICTIMS of those who own them.
Some have better owners than others. I still say the canner market
should be available to those who choose to use it.

And if you want to see something REALLY bad, just see what happens
to old (and they aren't so old anymore) milk cows that have milked
themselves to death. When they go through the ring and then have
to be loaded up, it's not a pretty picture.

I'd like to do something about that too.
There just is no easy answer. What is right for one person
is not right for another. Some see horses as a tool, others,
like yourself, see horses as a partner so it means more to you
what happens to them.

And yes, we see them as partners too.


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katrina
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Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 8770
Location: East north east of Soapweed

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know if horses are considered livestock??? I don't think so, the reason I say that is because areally good friend of mine raises horses and couldn't get any drought relief for them...... Correct me if I'm wrong.
We need the slaughtering plants or the horse buisness is history. You can bank on that........


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IL Rancher
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 3023
Location: Northwest Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nope... Mostly they are on the same realm as dogs and cats in this country now.. They are not mentioned in drought assistance programs that we filled out a few years back.


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katrina
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Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 8770
Location: East north east of Soapweed

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have another question?? If this slaughter thing goes through.... Why would you buy something that isn't worth anything after you buy it?? Wouldn't you buy things that you can kinda hold your money together?


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Judith
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Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2429
Location: BC

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Katrina,
Horses are no longer considered livestock. Try to use them for a business plan for FCC Smile They almost laugh right out loud.


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RoperAB
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Rancher


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cows can get two types of cancer eye. If its on the eyeball you can cut out the eye and save the cow. If its right on the area around the eye you cant save it. Or this is what all cattlemen that I have known have always told me.
Here is another thing. Dispite what some will say other cows can catch this. I know of one outfit that had a cancer eye cow in a pen in a barn for a few days. Every other cow that went into that pen ended up with cancer eye within a year.
Some outfits will keep a cancer eye until she calves. Sometimes they will try to keep a cow until weaning time. I have no statistics but it seems to me that these types of outfits are always cursed with a high % of cancer eye compared to other outfits that just shoot them from the start.
I suspect that all it takes is for that cancer eye cow to rub its eye on something and then for another cow to rub on the same spot.
Around here even before BSE there was no market for cancer eye cows. Well not in the last ten years anyway.
If you hauled them to a sale you could expect hide prices. Nobody I know of thinks its worth it to have buyers associate your herd with cancer. Would you want to eat a cow that had cancer Wink


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