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| Do You think the US Economy is Heading into or in a Recession--or a Depression? |
| No-the Economy is doing Fine |
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13% |
[ 8 ] |
| Yes- a mild short Recession |
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22% |
[ 13 ] |
| Yes- a prolonged Recession/Depression |
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31% |
[ 18 ] |
| Economic Collapse |
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32% |
[ 19 ] |
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| Total Votes : 58 |
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Mike
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 10084
Location: Montgomery, Al
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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The housing market/building boom began during the Clinton "Dot Com Bust" recession.
People found that they had no where else to put money that would be as secure as a home. Stock market was down and bank interest was paying low rates. Sad as it is, all good things must come to and end.
That is, too may houses were built to accommodate those capable of home ownership.
You will find that the most volatile markets today are the one's who overbuilt in any particlar area. Like Las Vegas, etc.
Home prices will eventually ease back up when demand exceeds supply.
There was also that pesky law that passed by Jimmy Carter & Co. that held banks to the rule that a certain percentage of minorities in an area MUST be able to obtain a home mortgage whether they really qualify for that loan or not.
When a mortgage is taken, the bank cannot force you pay, only to take your house if you do not....... Thus the reason for so many houses on the market and the subsequent price decline.
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hopalong
Rancher
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 1081
Location: usa
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| backhoeboogie wrote: |
| Oldtimer wrote: |
The thing I don't think you guys want to look at or admit- is when houses drop 25%- that is money/wealth, mostly held by the middle class, that just disappeared-- gone- vanished----
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How in the heck do you figure that?
You are talking about my home OT.
The Tax appraised value is worth 14 times what I paid for it in 1980. I wish it was appraised for the same value it was when I bought it. The place is mine and it isn't for sale. Price it up or price it down and I am still living there. Nothing changes and nothing is "gone-vanished". What is gone is the taxes and "YOU GUYS" want more taxes. |
Where did it go Oldtimer, did it just disappear or was it a paper value that was over inflated????
If you buy a cow this week that you think is worth $1000, and find out the next day that is now only worth $500 whose fault is that, YOURS for thinking it was worth $1000 or the worlds becasue all of a sudden other factors all of a sudden make it worth $500. Anyone can buy over valued objects (HOUSES TRUCKS ETC) but if all of a sudden that thing you bought is no longer worth what you paid that is your FAULT for getting greedy and trying to make an extra buck.
We have all been guilty of that even you OLdtimer, or are you going to deny you want to lose money on every thing you buy!!!!
Some read the fine print and back off.
Others don't and lose.
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15727
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Perfect timing for the ending of the Repub Convention- since it was GW, and his rubberstamp Congress and McCains buddy Foreclosure Phil that contributed so much to get us days like this ... 
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Dow Falls 345 on Retail, Unemployment News
Thursday, September 4, 2008 2:15 PM
Higher-than-expected unemployment numbers and sluggish retail sales data sent the Dow Industrials down 345 points today.
Wall Street had its steepest decline in more than two months on Thursday, as more signs of weakness in the labor market and increasingly sluggish growth overseas fueled fears about the ability of the U.S. economy to stage a recovery.
The sour mood was set early in the session, after weekly government data showed an unexpected jump in the number of filings for jobless benefits, while a report by ADP Employer Services showed private employers cut 33,000 jobs in August.
The data fueled investor nervousness ahead of the government's key August non-farm payrolls report, and losses cascaded in afternoon trading. The Dow fell more than 340 points and only one of its 30 components escaped the sell-off.
Construction and mining equipment maker Terex Corp compounded the gloom when it cut its 2008 sales and profit forecast, citing weak demand in Western Europe and North America. Top drags included economic bellwethers Caterpillar Inc and General Electric.
Financial stocks were also hammered, after Bill Gross, the manager of the world's biggest bond fund, Pimco, said that to halt what he called "a financial tsunami" the U.S. government should give the Treasury the right to buy debt and other assets. Gross said he was staying on the sidelines of the markets.
"It's definitely fear of an economic downturn that's hurting us today," said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank in Chicago. "The economic data and the downbeat forecasts from management don't lend a lot of confidence to the economic revival outlook."
The Dow Jones industrial average fell 344.65 points, or 2.99 percent, to 11,188.23, while the Standard & Poor's 500 Index dropped 38.15 points, or 2.99 percent, to 1,236.83. The Nasdaq Composite Index tumbled 74.69 points, or 3.20 percent, to 2,259.04.
It was the biggest one-day percentage drop for the three major indexes since June 26.
It was also the fourth day of losses for both the Nasdaq and the S&P 500, and the S&P 500's longest losing streak since January.
Losses accelerated in the last hours of trading after the S&P 500 broke below the 1,260 level, a technical support level that had survived several tests in August.
Also in late afternoon trading, Pimco's Gross told CNBC television that his firm's clients and contacts around the world were "sitting on their hands as well," waiting for a major buyer to come into the asset markets.
Generally lackluster August retail sales were another headwind for the market, as were concerns that sluggish growth was emerging abroad. The president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, said euro zone data points to weakening growth at midyear.
"The job market has been just a slow drip of bad news," said John Augustine, chief investment strategist at Fifth Third Asset Management in Cincinnati. "That's better than an open faucet, but it's still bad news for the economy. The stock market is struggling because it's waiting for better labor market news."
Economists expect the government's labor report on Friday to show a decline of 75,000 jobs in August, which would be the eighth consecutive month of job losses in the United States.
Shares of Caterpillar, the maker of bulldozers and excavators and a major exporter, fell 5.6 percent to $63.94. Terex shares fell 19.7 percent to $38.02.
Boeing's stock slid 4.6 percent to $63.03 after the plane maker's largest labor union said its members had rejected the company's contract offer and voted to strike.
Shares of investment bank Lehman Brothers fell 10.5 percent to $15.17. Lehman's LibertyView hedge funds lost money in July, when tumbling financial markets left many hedge fund managers nursing their biggest declines of the year, according to a note to investors obtained by Reuters.
Shares of technology companies, considered vulnerable because of their overseas exposure, tumbled. Networking equipment maker Cisco Systems was a top drag on the S&P 500, with a drop of 4.4 percent at $22.28 on Nasdaq.
BlackBerry devices maker Research In Motion was the top Nasdaq drag, falling 6.4 percent to $107.49. Shares of iPhone maker Apple dropped 3.4 percent to $161.22.
U.S. communications equipment maker Ciena Corp slashed its revenue outlook due to phone companies delaying purchases amid a weak economy. Its shares fell 24.9 percent to $13.09.
Trading was moderate on the New York Stock Exchange, with about 1.3 billion shares changing hands, below last year's estimated daily average of roughly 1.9 billion, while on Nasdaq, about 2.3 billion shares traded, above last year's daily average of 2.17 billion.
Declining stocks outnumbered advancing ones by 5 to 1 on the NYSE and by 4 to 1 on the Nasdaq.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/headlines/dow_industrials/2008/09/04/127764.html |
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15727
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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More to thank GW, his rubber stamp Congress, and McSames predicted Treasury Secretary "Foreclosure Phil" Gramm for.....
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| The U.S. unemployment rate unexpectedly shot up to 6.1 percent in August, an almost five-year high, as employers cut payrolls for an eighth straight month and labor markets showed signs of accelerating decline. The Labor Department said 84,000 jobs were lost in August. |
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TexasBred
Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 930
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Oldtimer wrote: |
More to thank GW, his rubber stamp Congress, and McSames predicted Treasury Secretary "Foreclosure Phil" Gramm for.....
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| The U.S. unemployment rate unexpectedly shot up to 6.1 percent in August, an almost five-year high, as employers cut payrolls for an eighth straight month and labor markets showed signs of accelerating decline. The Labor Department said 84,000 jobs were lost in August. |
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OT..."rubberstamp congress"??? The dems control the congress..both houses....now put your Vanity Fair down, quit looking at the underwear ads and try to get up to speed. Ever wonder how many of those "jobs" were kids going back to college???????
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15727
Location: Northeast Montana
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15727
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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News is reporting right now- that the government has taken over both Fannie and Freddie and that now the US Treasury (US taxpayers) are in the mortgage business.....Thanks George....
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Report: Treasury Near GSE Bailout Plan
Friday, September 5, 2008 5:23 PM
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Treasury Department is close to finalizing a plan to buttress mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.
Citing people familiar with the matter, the Journal said the plan was expected to involve a creative use of authority the Treasury won in late July to pump capital into the two government-sponsored enterprises if it believed it was necessary.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/headlines/gse_bailout/2008/09/05/128175.html |
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Freddie Mac Posts $821M Loss, Cuts Dividend
Wednesday, August 6, 2008 8:41 AM
NEW YORK -- Freddie Mac on Wednesday posted its fourth consecutive quarterly loss, set plans to slash its common stock dividend and warned of more difficulty ahead amid the steepest U.S. housing market slump since the Great Depression.
The second-biggest provider of U.S. residential mortgage funding also affirmed a commitment to raise $5.5 billion in additional capital, but it provided no immediate details of its plan. It repeated that it continues to maintain a surplus over all regulatory capital requirements.
For the second quarter, McLean, Virginia-based Freddie Mac reported a loss of $821 million, or $1.63 cents per share, compared with a profit of $729 million, or 96 cents per share, a year earlier. It follows a $151 million loss in the first quarter and brings its cumulative loss over the past four quarters to more than $4.6 billion.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/financenews/freddie_mac/2008/08/06/119479.html
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Fannie Mae Posts $3.6 Billion Loss
Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:30 AM
WASHINGTON -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will be allowed to expand their roles in the turbulent mortgage market even as worsening conditions in the housing sector punish the two companies.
Fannie, the largest buyer and backer of U.S. home loans, said Wednesday it lost nearly $3.6 billion in the fourth quarter of 2007 amid mounting home-loan delinquencies and soured bets on interest rates. Freddie is expected Thursday to report a $1.5 billion fourth-quarter loss, according to Wall Street estimates.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/companies/earns_fannie_mae/2008/02/28/76282.html |
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Home Loan Troubles Break Records Again
Friday, September 5, 2008 10:30 AM
WASHINGTON -- An industry group says a record 9.2 percent of American homeowners with a mortgage were either behind on their payments or in foreclosure at the end of June, as damage from the housing crisis continues to mount.
The latest quarterly snapshot by the Mortgage Bankers Association on Friday broke records for late payments, homes entering the foreclosure process and for the inventory of loans in foreclosure.
The percentage of loans at least 30 days past due or in foreclosure was up from 8.8 percent in the January-March quarter, and up from 6.5 percent a year earlier.
In one bit of positive news, delinquencies on subprime adjustable-rate loans dipped 1 percentage point from the first quarter to 21 percent.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/companies/home_foreclosures/2008/09/05/128047.html |
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Faster horses
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 9400
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15727
Location: Northeast Montana
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15727
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah GW-- Yeah McCain-- Bring us 4 more years of the same 
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Freddie-Fannie Lifeline Puts Taxpayers on the Hook
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 8:38 AM
WASHINGTON -- Now that the federal government has thrown a lifeline to mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, taxpayers could be on the hook for billions more if the crisis of confidence spreads.
There were encouraging signs Monday for the rescue plan, but also signs of concern — notably on Wall Street, where shares of the two companies slumped further -- that the plan won't be enough.
Other banks are already teetering: National City Corp. shares fell nearly 15 percent on rumors of financial trouble, even though it said it was experiencing no unusual depositor or creditor activity. And Washington Mutual Inc.'s shares fell 35 percent, to a paltry $3.23 amid worries about whether it had enough cash to handle the mortgage market downturn. WaMu said that it did.
And worried customers lined up Monday to pull cash out of their accounts at IndyMac Bank, seized on Friday by the federal government.
Some critics said they fear the Fannie-Freddie rescue effort will make more bailouts inevitable by sending a message that some institutions are too big to fail and thus encouraging risky behavior.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/financenews/freddie_fannie/2008/07/15/112896.html |
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Gabelli: U.S. Consumers in Deep Trouble
Monday, September 8, 2008 9:56 AM
Superstar money manager Mario Gabelli says the U.S. consumer sector is dead in the water, with ominous implications for the economy and stock market.
Real personal consumption expenditures dropped 0.4 percent in July, the biggest drop in four years. July represented the fifth month out of the last 10 that real consumption fell.
Many analysts have said that growth abroad, particularly in emerging markets, will be strong enough to counteract the downturn in consumer spending. But Gabelli, who oversees $28 billion as chief executive of Gamco Investors, disagrees.
"The U.S. consumer is greater than China, Russia, India and Brazil in terms of the impact," he told Bloomberg TV.
"As we're slowing down, we're slowing down the world. The consumer has been in a recession since November of 2007."
U.S. GDP expanded at a 3.3 percent annual rate in the second quarter. But most economists attribute that rise to consumers spending their tax rebates. Like Gabelli, they expect the economy to slow rapidly.
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/streettalk/mario_gabelli/2008/09/08/128686.html |
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backhoeboogie
Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 989
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| It is a shame to have to eat left overs. Tonight it will be prime rib eye that I cooked up on Saturday. We had 5 left over. Yep OT times are tough.
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aplusmnt
Rancher
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 3668
Location: Southeast Kansas
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Spin some more 
