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Mike
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 16951
Location: Montgomery, Al
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 Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: Berg vs. Obama Amended |
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Former Pennsylvania Attorney General is putting heat on the DNC and their attempt to quash this lawsuit. The DNC has filed for a motion to dismiss, but it would be much easier to just pony up the documents.
At the end of the day, much like he has been since filing the initial complaint on August 21, Philip Berg is seeking to avoid what he calls a "certain constitutional crisis" by asking the court to prevent Obama from seeking and obtaining the presidency. With this amended complaint, Berg is once again asking that the court:
Order Barack Obama to prove his citizenship status and immediately turn over (1) a certified copy of his "vault" birth certificate, (2) certified copies of all reissued and sealed birth certificates in the names of Barack Hussein Obama, Barry Soetoro, Barry Obama, Barack Dunham and Barry Dunham, (3) a certified copy of his Oath of Allegiance taken upon age of majority, (4) any and all college admission forms, and (5) any and all documentation changing Obama's name from "Barry Soetoro" to "Barack Obama."
Declare that Barack Obama (1) is not a U.S. "natural born" citizen, (2) is not a "naturalized" citizen, and (3) is still an Indonesian citizen.
Declare that Barack Obama is ineligible to run for and hold the presidency of the United States of America.
Order Barack Obama to be removed from the ballot in the presidential election "until his citizenship status can in fact be verified ensuring he is eligible to serve as president of the United States."
Preliminarily and permanently enjoin--prevent--the Democratic National Committee and Pennsylvania Secretary Pedro Cortes from placing Barack Obama on the ballot until his citizenship status is proven and he is shown to be eligible to hold the presidency.
Order the FEC, Diane Feinstein and the U.S. Senate Commission on Rules and Administration to "immediately open and conduct an investigation" into the "fraudulent tactics" and citizenship status of Barack Obama.
Preliminarily and permanently enjoin Barack Obama from any further campaigning for the presidency until he is able to prove his citizenship status and eligibility to hold the office of president of the United States.
As of this morning, Berg says that his Web site has received 21.7 million hits, and that he has been swamped with phone calls and e-mails from democrats and republicans alike. One such caller this morning said that he heard about the case on the local news in Baltimore, Maryland, but most callers generally ask the same thing -- what's the answer?
"I tell them that he obviously doesn't have the documents," Berg said. "People get that. I even had one caller tell me that he plans to relay the information to [Alaska Gov.] Sarah Palin. She's been hitting Obama hard this weekend, and she should go after this eligibility issue. I tell you, if the republicans have this information, if this is their 'October Surprise,' they'd better do something soon. We're headed toward a constitutional crisis in America, and look at the markets ... we've got enough on our hands."
Still, this democrat isn't waiting for the GOP to act.
"Barack Obama promotes himself as the candidate for change. Well, he does want change. He wants the rules to apply to other people and not to himself," Berg said. "We're going to win this one way or another. I have a good feeling. We're going to make a little history with Obama, and I want to be there when they handcuff him."
Handcuff him, I asked. Isn't that a little harsh?
"Listen," Berg said, briefly chuckling at my question, "if he has the documents, produce them already!"
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Yanuck
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4283
Location: Alberta
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Mike
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 16951
Location: Montgomery, Al
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Yanuck
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4283
Location: Alberta
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VanC
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Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Illinois
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Yanuck
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4283
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for that VanC, it sounds like a mess all the way 'round! I'm glad Troopergate is over and they didn't delay it, like I tell my kids...tell me the truth now 'cause if I find out you were lying later, its gonna be way worse than if you start out being honest!
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Vision
Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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At first I did not put much stock into this story. I know computers cold and the document that Obama posted on his web site is not only a fake, it is a laughable one as it has telltale "photoshop" artifacts when examined in high res close up.
So I forgot about this issue for a while, but now all Obama has to do is produce the document, no different than what I have to do when I get a new drivers license or something. What if he gets elected and is then thrown out of office... wow that would be interesting to write about that is for sure.
At this point they are just being stupid and should produce the documents.
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jigs
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 6938
Location: KANSAS
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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can the Supreme Court step in and DEMAND the records before the election?? can congress ask for it?
sure seems to me that barak the anti America, muslim, tax raising, liberal is trying to hide something.....
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Yanuck
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4283
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jigs wrote: |
can the Supreme Court step in and DEMAND the records before the election?? can congress ask for it?
sure seems to me that barak the anti America, muslim, tax raising, liberal is trying to hide something..... |
who did McCain show his documents to? and who decides if they are authentic or not?
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Oldtimer
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24734
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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McCain doesn't want to bring it up or challenge it- because there is some question to his legality to serve as being natural born...The only hearing on the Hollander-McCain suit did not address the question- rather saying the plaintiff did not have standing to bring the suit....
Historically now for years- for such things as citizenship and Social Security the US government has accepted any documents that can show when and where without too much question because birth and death records were kept piecemeal in some parts of the country...Especially years ago- or in the poorer neighborhoods where many times babies were born at home- and births were never recorded- or sometimes recorded much later.....
I've seen times when folks had to use family bibles- that were accepted as documentation- so the precedence is there for the courts to probably accept both mens credentials....
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McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
His Eligibility for Presidency Is Questioned
By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 2, 2008; Page A06
The Senate has unanimously declared John McCain a natural-born citizen, eligible to be president of the United States.
That is the good news for the presumptive Republican nominee, who was born nearly 72 years ago in a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, then under U.S. jurisdiction. The bad news is that the nonbinding Senate resolution passed Wednesday night is simply an opinion that has little bearing on an arcane constitutional debate that has preoccupied legal scholars for many weeks.
Article II of the Constitution states that "no person except a natural born citizen . . . shall be eligible to the office of president." The problem is that the Founding Fathers never defined exactly what they meant by "natural born citizen," and the matter has never been fully tested in court. At least three pending cases are challenging McCain's right to be sworn in as president.
Jurists on both sides of the political divide, consulted by the McCain campaign, insist that the issue is clear-cut. They argue that McCain is a natural-born citizen because the United States held sovereignty over the Panama Canal Zone at the time of his birth, on Aug. 29, 1936; because he was born on a U.S. military base; and because his parents were U.S. citizens.
But Sarah H. Duggin, an associate law professor at Catholic University who has studied the "natural born" issue in detail, said the question is "not so simple." While she said McCain would probably prevail in a determined legal challenge to his eligibility to be president, she added that the matter can be fully resolved only by a constitutional amendment or a Supreme Court decision.
"The Constitution is ambiguous," Duggin said. "The McCain side has some really good arguments, but ultimately there has never been any real resolution of this issue. Congress cannot legislatively change the meaning of the Constitution."
Senators sympathetic to McCain's position, including Democrats Claire McCaskill (Mo.) and Patrick J. Leahy (Vt.), dropped an earlier attempt to quell the eligibility controversy with legislation. McCaskill acknowledged in an interview that there is "no way" to completely resolve the question short of a constitutional amendment, a cumbersome process which could not be concluded before November.
She described the nonbinding resolution, which she sponsored, as "the quickest, clearest and most efficient" way for the Senate to send a message to the courts that McCain has the right to be president.
One person who disagrees with that premise is New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is "not a natural born citizen." In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain's birth certificate.
The Department of Homeland Security, which oversees citizenship services, declined to hand over copies of the document, saying the subpoena was improperly served.
In his autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain writes that he was born "in the Canal Zone" at the U.S. Naval Air Station in Coco Solo, which was under the command of his grandfather, John S. McCain Sr. The senator's father, John S. McCain Jr., was an executive officer on a submarine, also based in Coco Solo. His mother, Roberta McCain, now 96, has vivid memories of lying in bed listening to raucous celebrations of her son's birth from the nearby officers' club.
The birth was announced two days later in the English-language Panamanian American newspaper. A senior official of the McCain campaign showed a reporter a copy of the senator's birth certificate issued by Canal Zone health authorities, recording his birth in the Coco Solo "family hospital."
Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the "Child Born Abroad" records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain.
Possible discrepancies in the bureaucratic paperwork are of little concern to Laurence Tribe, a Harvard law professor who looked into the case at the McCain campaign's request. Tribe examined the issue along with Theodore B. Olson, his onetime nemesis in the 2000 Supreme Court case Bush v. Gore.
Tribe said it would be "astonishing if the recordkeeping practices of Canal Zone [officials] could have any bearing on eligibility for the U.S. presidency."
The key constitutional issue is whether the Canal Zone was part of the United States at the time of McCain's birth. In a memorandum, Tribe and Olson cite a 1986 Supreme Court ruling stating that the United States "exercised sovereignty" over the 10-mile-wide area between 1904 and 1979, when it was handed back to the Panamanians. Hollander and others challenging McCain's eligibility argue that the zone was never part of the United States.
Duggin, the constitutional law scholar, said the sovereignty question is "more complex" than Olson and Tribe concede. People born in some U.S. territories, such as American Samoa, are not recognized as citizens of the United States.
According to a State Department manual, U.S. military installations abroad cannot be considered "part of the United States" and "A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth." Tribe said the manual is an "opinion" with no legal status.
There are few precedents for someone born outside the 50 states running for president, let alone becoming president. The best example the McCain camp has been able to come up with is Vice President Charles Curtis, who served under President Herbert Hoover and was born in the territory of Kansas in 1860, a year before it became a state. The 12th Amendment requires that vice presidents possess the same qualifications as presidents.
Several prominent politicians have run for the presidency without having been born in the United States, including Barry Goldwater, who was born in the territory of Arizona in 1909, three years before it became a state. Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, ran in 1968, even though he was born in Mexico. Since neither Goldwater nor Romney won the presidency, the "natural born" clause was never tested.
Duggin believes that Hollander and the other plaintiffs are likely to have a hard time establishing their own eligibility, or legal standing, to challenge McCain. She said it will be difficult for them to demonstrate that they have been "disenfranchised" because of the mere presence on the ballot of a candidate with debatable constitutional qualifications.
But she said the matter should be sorted out before the election, rather than afterward: "Imagine what would happen if the courts were to overturn an election simply based on eligibility. It would be a disaster. After what happened in 2000, people would completely lose faith in the electoral process."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224.html |
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Sandhusker
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18244
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Why doesn't Obama just show his dang birth certificate? Why did he show a FAKE and claim that it was legitimate? What's he hiding?
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Oldtimer
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24734
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| Why doesn't Obama just show his dang birth certificate? Why did he show a FAKE and claim that it was legitimate? What's he hiding? |
Who does he show it to  The US has no certifier of records, like the Secretary of States do for states...And all 50 states have accepted him on the ballot as a legitimate candidate for the office...
He has shown it to independent sources that have verified it- but do you think he's going to hand it to someone biased like you to examine it
| Quote: |
Candidates meet 'natural-born' test despite rumors
By ANN SANNER – 2 days ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — As John McCain and Barack Obama vie to become president, certain fevered voices persist in saying they should not even be allowed to try.
In an argument popular on the Internet and taken seriously practically nowhere else, critics of the candidates argue that each does not qualify to run for the White House because he's not a "natural-born citizen" as the Constitution requires.
Obama plainly is, because he was born in the U.S.
McCain qualifies, too, although the circumstances of his birth — on a U.S. naval base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 — were unusual enough to merit a review.
In California, U.S. District Judge William Alsup threw out a lawsuit seeking to remove McCain from the state's ballot because of his birthplace.
Alsup ruled in September that McCain was essentially a qualifying citizen two times over — first, because both his parents were U.S. citizens, which satisfied eligibility rules of the time; and because a law passed a year after his birth retroactively recognizing people born in the zone as natural-born Americans.
McCain's father was stationed in the Panama Canal Zone with the U.S. Navy.
The Constitution requires that only "natural-born" citizens hold the presidency. But the Founding Fathers did not elaborate on the term, so bloggers and others have had a field day.
Theories abound that Obama actually was born abroad and that his birth certificate, proving he was born in Hawaii, is a fake.
Obama was born in Honolulu in 1961, two years after Hawaii became a state. He is the son of a Kenyan father and a mother from Kansas, who met and married in Hawaii. After the marriage failed, a 6-year-old Obama left Hawaii to spend four years in Indonesia with his mother and Indonesian stepfather. In 1971, when he was 10, Obama's mother sent him back to Honolulu to stay with his maternal grandparents.
In response to the allegations, Obama's campaign in June posted the Illinois senator's birth certificate on his campaign Web site, http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.
The nonpartisan Web site Factcheck.org examined the original document and said it does have a raised seal and the usual evidence of a genuine document.
Even so, a lawsuit challenging Obama's candidacy was filed in August in a U.S. District Court in Pennsylvania and is still pending.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gcwFmRs78Gz6-31o50qhACm-Y24AD93NRJE00 |
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