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Tax plan is really a welfare plan
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Sandhusker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Tax plan is really a welfare plan Reply with quote

Barack Obama's tax plan is the opposite of supply-side economics. He proposes to raise marginal rates for just about every federal tax. He also proposes a raft of tax credits that taxpayers can receive if they engage in various government-specified activities.

Moreover, the tax credits would mostly go to those who pay little or nothing in federal income taxes. His trick is to make the tax credits "refundable." Thus, if the tax credit is for $1,000, but the taxpayer would otherwise only pay $200 in taxes, the government would write a check to the taxpayer for $800. If the taxpayer pays nothing in federal income taxes, the government would pay him the whole $1,000.

Such credits are not tax cuts. Indeed, they should be called The New Tax Welfare. In effect, Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand a slew of government spending programs that are disguised as tax credits. The spending on these programs is then subtracted from the total tax burden, in order to make the claim that his tax plan is a net tax cut overall.

On the tax side of the ledger, the details released by his campaign last week confirm what a President Obama has in mind for our most productive citizens. The top individual income tax rate, for example, would be increased by 13%, to 39.6%; the next-highest rate would be raised to 36%. The top rates on capital gains and dividends would rise by a third, to 20%

The Social Security payroll tax would be raised between 16% to 32% for families making over $250,000 a year. This means that the real returns these people get from their lifetime payments into the retirement program will be driven below 0%, according to my own previous research, which was published by the Cato Institute and elsewhere.

Mr. Obama also wants a permanent federal estate tax, with a top rate of 45%; his health-insurance plan includes a new payroll tax on employers; and he also contemplates several increases in the corporate income tax, including a new so-called windfall profits tax on oil companies.

Then there is the spending side of the ledger. Mr. Obama proposes a fully refundable Making Work Pay Tax Credit, which would have the government pay out $500 to each worker and $1,000 to couples -- reminiscent of George McGovern's 1972 election proposal for the government to send a $1,000 check to everyone.

His American Opportunity Tax Credit would provide a $4,000, fully refundable tax credit for college tuition expenses. His Mortgage Interest Tax Credit would provide a 10% credit -- refundable -- to offset mortgage interest payments for lower- and middle-income families. His Health Care Tax Credits, which the campaign says "will ensure that health insurance is available and affordable for all families," include "a new refundable 50 percent health tax credit on employee premiums paid by employers."

Currently existing tax credits would also become spending programs in the Obama tax program. The Savers Credit would be made fully refundable, and would be expanded, according to the campaign, "to match 50% of the first $1,000 of savings for families that earn under $75,000." The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit would be made refundable and expanded to allow "low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit on the first $6,000 of child care expenses."

The Earned Income Tax Credit is already refundable. Mr. Obama would expand it to "increase the number of working parents eligible for EITC benefits, increase the benefits available to noncustodial parents who fulfill their child support obligations, increase benefits for families with three or more children, and reduce the EITC marriage penalty, which hurts low-income families." In short, welfare spending is to be increased by paying more money out to low-income income tax filers.

The latest Congressional Budget Office data shows the bottom 40% of income earners already pays no income taxes. Indeed, they receive a net payment from the federal income tax system -- meaning from the taxpayers -- equal to 3.8% of all federal income taxes, because of the refundable tax credits under current law. The middle 20% of income earners, the true middle class, pays 4.4% of federal income taxes.

Overall, the bottom 60% of income earners pay less than 1% of federal income taxes on net. When "tax credits" primarily go to this group in the form of checks from the government (rather than a reduction in their tax burden) it is simply an abuse of the language to call the spending a tax cut.

Consequently, to say, as the campaign does say, that the candidate's tax plan is a tax cut on net -- and that it would limit taxes to 18.2% of GDP -- is grossly misleading. The Obama tax plan would sharply increase real taxes. It also would come nowhere near to paying for the massive increases in federal spending he has proposed, including the spending that is disguised in the form of refundable tax credits.


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Oldtimer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well look where an economic policy and tax plan controlled 12 out of 14 years by a Republican Congress and the last 8 years by a Bush Regime Whitehouse has put us....
The closest to the Great Depression and complete Economic Collapse we've ever seen... Sad Mad

I'm tired of Socialism for the Rich and Elite Fatcats
Capitalism for the poor and working folks

Bush's sh*t runs downhill "trickle down" theory isn't working..

To me that is a good enough reason alone to vote for a "change"....


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Sandhusker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change, change, change, you're going to get it all right - same as the folks in Russia who wanted change in 1917.

You liberals are running so hard from Bush, but the problem is that you're running while looking backwards, not forwards, so you don't know where you're running to. You're runnng way from a skunk and straight to a bear. You're going to get your change, guaranteed.


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backhoeboogie
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldtimer wrote:
Well look where an economic policy and tax plan controlled 12 out of 14 years by a Republican Congress and the last 8 years by a Bush Regime Whitehouse has put us....
The closest to the Great Depression and complete Economic Collapse we've ever seen... Sad Mad

I'm tired of Socialism for the Rich and Elite Fatcats
Capitalism for the poor and working folks

Bush's sh*t runs downhill "trickle down" theory isn't working..

To me that is a good enough reason alone to vote for a "change"....


Keep trying OT.

All hard working folks I know have fared well the last decade. Many small businesses were birthed and prosperous.


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Oldtimer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

backhoeboogie wrote:
Oldtimer wrote:
Well look where an economic policy and tax plan controlled 12 out of 14 years by a Republican Congress and the last 8 years by a Bush Regime Whitehouse has put us....
The closest to the Great Depression and complete Economic Collapse we've ever seen... Sad Mad

I'm tired of Socialism for the Rich and Elite Fatcats
Capitalism for the poor and working folks

Bush's sh*t runs downhill "trickle down" theory isn't working..

To me that is a good enough reason alone to vote for a "change"....


Keep trying OT.

All hard working folks I know have fared well the last decade. Many small businesses were birthed and prosperous.


And under the Bush/McCain plan our grandkids unborn already have a massive debt against them...
Is that how you operate your business- borrow and spend until your business collapses- and then borrow some more Say what? ...Because thats been the Bush/McCain policy....
Time to end it- time to put some responsibility back into government.Time for "change"..


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Sandhusker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is going to happen to the debt after Obama's newest welfare program is initiated, OT?


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Oldtimer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandhusker wrote:
What is going to happen to the debt after Obama's newest welfare program is initiated, OT?




I have more faith in Obama's plan being rational than I do a 72 year old professional Lobbyiest owned whore politician that is now telling folks "he will pay off the national debt and balance the budget in his first term in office"- while also spouting he's going to cut taxes... Now he's either an outright liar or knows nothing- because even back in 2001 Paul O'Neill said at that time the only way to just balance the budget would be huge spending cuts-and tax increases BOTH...But Bush didn't like that advice- so he just got rid of him and spent more and said "charge it"... And since then Bush added $Trillions more in national debt....

I'm tired of sending Trillions $ overseas to build their infrastructure ($10 Billion a month to Iraq)...I'd at least like to see our money spent in AMERICA- for AMERICANS- to build AMERICA....I have more faith in Obama doing that....


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Sandhusker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though we KNOW Obama is lying on his "tax cuts", you want to go with him because McCain MIGHT be lying? Shocked


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RobertMac
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OT, I'm all for a balanced budget amendment...do you believe "the change" will include that from Obama and a Democrat Congress?

NO!!! The Democrat Congress, in two years, has increased the debt ceiling from 8T to 11T!!!!! Surprised Shocked

Quote:
huge spending cuts-and tax increases BOTH

With Democrats we will get huge tax increases and HUGE spending increases...what will that do to your grandkids debt????????????????


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Vision
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Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldtimer wrote:
backhoeboogie wrote:
Oldtimer wrote:
Well look where an economic policy and tax plan controlled 12 out of 14 years by a Republican Congress and the last 8 years by a Bush Regime Whitehouse has put us....
The closest to the Great Depression and complete Economic Collapse we've ever seen... Sad Mad

I'm tired of Socialism for the Rich and Elite Fatcats
Capitalism for the poor and working folks

Bush's sh*t runs downhill "trickle down" theory isn't working..

To me that is a good enough reason alone to vote for a "change"....


Keep trying OT.

All hard working folks I know have fared well the last decade. Many small businesses were birthed and prosperous.


And under the Bush/McCain plan our grandkids unborn already have a massive debt against them...
Is that how you operate your business- borrow and spend until your business collapses- and then borrow some more Say what? ...Because thats been the Bush/McCain policy....
Time to end it- time to put some responsibility back into government.Time for "change"..


Hell OT - If they were born under LBJ they were born with a massive debt against them....


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Vision
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Joined: 06 Oct 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertMac wrote:
OT, I'm all for a balanced budget amendment...do you believe "the change" will include that from Obama and a Democrat Congress?

NO!!! The Democrat Congress, in two years, has increased the debt ceiling from 8T to 11T!!!!! Surprised Shocked

Quote:
huge spending cuts-and tax increases BOTH

With Democrats we will get huge tax increases and HUGE spending increases...what will that do to your grandkids debt????????????????


Its ok, OT thinks that his grandkids can be taxed into prosperity, so lets have the 90% tax rate NOW!

WE'LL ALL BE RICH!


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Oldtimer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vision wrote:
RobertMac wrote:
OT, I'm all for a balanced budget amendment...do you believe "the change" will include that from Obama and a Democrat Congress?

NO!!! The Democrat Congress, in two years, has increased the debt ceiling from 8T to 11T!!!!! Surprised Shocked

Quote:
huge spending cuts-and tax increases BOTH

With Democrats we will get huge tax increases and HUGE spending increases...what will that do to your grandkids debt????????????????


Its ok, OT thinks that his grandkids can be taxed into prosperity, so lets have the 90% tax rate NOW!

WE'LL ALL BE RICH!


Well explain how well things are going under the current Spend and Borrow Bush/Repub policy Say what?

Our country is more nationalized now than even FDR thought of Rolling Eyes


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