Eliminating costs is always better than reducing costs

[Big Swede]

Some of us here are not on the same page. There is a big difference between cruelty, neglect, and starving cattle and providing forage that the cattle have to harvest. Providing hay during the very cold snaps or deep snow is a no brainer but if you could save $100, $200, or more per head to winter each cow with no detrimental effects wouldn't that peak your interest just a little bit? Big steers are bringing home around $600 to $625 this fall. Near as I can figure around here anyway it will cost around $210 to summer each cow and $270 or so to winter her so that comes to $480 just for grass and hay in the traditional ranch setting. Now average the light steers and heifers and the picture becomes kind of gloomy.

I'm not telling anyone anything that they don't already know, I'm just wondering out loud if there was a way to cut expenses it might be worth taking a look at. Just because a guy has a pile of feed doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea to feed it. I'm just playing devil's advocate. That's the reason I enjoy this site so much, I might just learn something. Most of the ranchers who are still in this business know how to tighten their belts or they wouldn't still be in business. Just food for thought.

[Soapweed]

[Big Swede]

As the price of corn keeps dropping I wonder if that will hold true much longer. I am more inclined each day to feed those steers out this year instead of selling feeders. Who knows, with the roller coaster ride we've been on lately anything is possible.

[Soapweed]

[Ben H]

Just to be clear, all this talk about Kit makes me wonder if some people missed the fact that Jim Gerrish wrote the article, Kit just included a link to it in his PCC quckie.

Someone mentioned Kit doesn't provide free trucking on purchased bulls, he does provide free trucking to 40 drop points. I hope to buy one in the next year or two. It's kind of nice having to only pay for the trucking from Virginia instead of Colorado.

There was also a great article in the newest SGF about bale grazing, it is part of the new section "Grazing In Snow Country."

Toi comment about the unwillingnes to change, it's funny how some people are not willing to change when at some point changes had to be made by somebody to get to where they are now.

[Big Swede]

Yes Soapweed, I bought 6 bulls. Just talked to Wade and he said the whole bull crop averaged 630#, down about 20# from last year. I saw your load sell yesterday on cattleusa, they looked good again. Are you seeing less weaning weight this year too or they about where they should be?

[PureCountry]

Just read through this front to back, and I'm glad that Ben brought up the fact that Jim Gerrish wrote the article. The name Kit Pharo sure seems to spark some "conversation" around here.

A couple of points: I have never heard Kit Pharo say that lighter calves ALWAYS bring more per pound. I have heard him say that lighter calves HISTORICALLY average more per pound.

The calf market is the same in Alberta this year. Feedlots don't want the 4-6 wt calves. They want them over 600 at least, and who can blame them? They've lost alot of money in the last 2 years feeding cattle. Even with barley being cheaper now, it's not a lucrative business. So, instead of selling my 400lb calves, what do I do? I put on my thinking cap, put pencil to paper, and devise a plan to retain ownership, follow the markets over the next 6 months, and sell the beeves at the point where I feel I will get the widest margin. Then I take over the world.

Let's keep in mind folks that noone is saying you should do this, or you should do that. Jim Gerrish, Big Swede, and many others in the last 3 pages are simply stating that there are options worth considering. I gave up preaching to the choir about options a couple years ago. I kept getting the same responses I saw here....."We can't do that through all that snow.", "We can't let cattle go without water.", "We can't""We can't""We can't". You know what - YOU'RE RIGHT!!! YOU can't, because YOU won't. I and others can, and do. My only wish for myself and all of us involved in Agriculture, is that we can do it profitably, and enjoy it. What else matters?

Good night all.

[rainie]

Big Swede, you are exactly right in my opinion.I know that Pure Country and I are already on the same page in our thinking. It took me awhile to get my head around this and am still learning. I just want to say that bale grazing has been the biggest soil and subsequent grass improver that we ever used.I look at a hay bale now as fertilizer waiting for a place to start growing better grass.I look at a cow as a fertilizing machine, summer and winter. Actually, a cow is the best soil improver that there is, if you treat her that way.I've seen huge increases in grass using mob grazing and plan on getting more involved with this myself. Your grass is your profit,pure and simple, in good markets or bad.In my area, the producers with overgrazed, mismanaged pastures were the first to leave the cattle business.Why? Because they had small weaning weights,probably open cows, and they have to feed alot more and for more months than the producers who are better at managing their grass and can graze longer into winter or even during the winter, thus reducing their costs and gaining more profit. If I have to start anything more than a skidoo to feed the cows, bulls, or calves during the winter, I start to get a bit ticked off and know that it won't happen the next winter. I've got neighbors who just aren't happy if they don't spend 4-6 hours a day feeding cows all winter. These are the same guys that also like to complain about how many thousands they spent on fuel to feed their cows for the winter and if they can afford to buy high priced fertilizer for their hay fields These are also the same guys whose pasture production is decreasing every year and they are wondering what to pay for rented pasture.Change if you want or don't change, but what Big Swede is trying to point out is that there might be a better way of doing things.

[Ben H]

To quote Allan Nation, "Most people would rather fail conventionally then to succeed unconventially."

We are headed for some interesting times, those that are unwilling to change with the times can't last. Those that do, will prosper.

One of the biggest thing that Kit drives into people is to seperate Profit and Productivity, they are two different things. You can be the most productive farmer/rancher, have the highest weaning weights, the best looking calves, but that doesn't mean they are the most productive. American Agriculture is the most productive and profitable in the world, but are we the most profitable?

The biggest priorities I have is to install fences that will keep the animals in when there is a few feet of snow, I am now buidling everything with a earth wire return, not all hot. I will be installing more freeze proof waterers so I can feed more stockpiled forage and start bale grazing. The cost of the fence will more then cover the reduction in fuel and machinery depreciation.

Some comments from other farmers in my are include one saying it's cheaper for him to go out and chop the grass and bring it to his cows in his "feedlot", cheaper then me grazing and allowing the cows to harvest it. Another told me he heard that he can harvest more tons of forage per acre by haying then by allowing the cows to graze. Again, even if that's true, productivity vs. profitability. The thing with the second comment is what a lot of people call grazing.

[Denny]

[Soapweed]

Summer grass in this area is worth approximately $1.20 per cow/calf pair per day. This holds true whether you are putting your cows on grass owned by a neighbor, or taking in a neighbor's cattle to eat your own grass. Hay can be purchased locally for approximately $70-$80 per ton. That is the hay market whether you are buying or selling. Considering that a cow will eat approximately 25 pounds per day of $80 per ton hay, this would figure out 25# x 4 cents per pound or $1.00 per cow per day, with another 20 cents per day to get it fed. You are looking at cow feed expense of $1.20 per cow per day, whether it is in the form of grass or hay. I guess for my money, I like to graze in good weather and feed hay in bad weather. I like to run my cows in the fashion that if I was living life as a cow, I would like to be one of my cows, if that makes any "cents."

[cowzilla]

My stands of alfafa don't weather very good by November. What kinds of standing hay do guys winter graze that hold good feed value?