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Big Swede
Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 799
Location: South Dakota
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Soapweed
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 11627
Location: northern Nebraska Sandhills
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 Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Big Swede wrote: |
If you believe all the research an F1 female is worth $50 more income per year. For all of us straight breeding take $50 times the number of cows we run and tell me why we aren't crossbreeding. Tradition, stubbornness, or maybe none of us needs the extra income?  I've been thinking about it for years but thinking doesn't make my cows crossbreds for some reason. |
Back in the 1980's, I read that an average Hereford cow gives X amount of milk, an average Angus cow gives 7% more milk than the average Hereford, and that an F1 Hereford-Angus baldy cow gives 15% more than the straight Hereford cow. Then if you used a bull of a Continental breed, you would get the maximum hybrid vigor available plus the extra milk of the baldy cow. This third cross was to be a terminal cross, and no replacements kept from the deal. More pounds, more profit. Sounded good to me.
I went this route for a number of years, using Charolais bulls for the terminal cross, and it worked quite well. Then I started using straight Angus cows with the Charolais bulls, and it worked even better. All of the calves had black noses, which to a buyer seemed of utmost importance. Some of the calves from the baldy cows had pink noses, and if there were too many of them, the buyers drug their heels a bit. One spring I bought eight nice yearling Charolais bulls for $900 apiece, used them for the breeding season, and had a chance to sell them in October for $1200 apiece. I did,  and haven't run any Charolais bulls since. I thought our weights would go down using straight blacks, but they didn't.
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Denny
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 4326
Location: Mn usa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| The top weaning weight herds here are all straight Black angus and have been for years. I could name 7 in a 13 mile drive straight north of here who wean calves calves in the 600 to 700# weights. They all calve beginning march and ship end of october. I have a hereford bull but it's more because I like baldy cows.
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Dylan Biggs
Rancher
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1444
Location: hanna,alberta
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Liveoak
Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 574
Location: Texas
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Big Swede
Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 799
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| I think we've all got our minds so wrapped around weaning weights that it's hard to see the bigger picture. Fertility, the most important trait is the one most affected with an F1 female. More calves born per cow without having to replace her means greater longevity. That means less depreciation per cow, another very important factor to our bottom line. I've been looking at crossbreeding for years but can't seem to pull the trigger because straight breeding Angus seems so easy. I think about crossbreeding and then I go look at the Angus herd that I buy bulls from and think how could crossbreeding make them any better than that. Maybe I think too much?
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katrina
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 7655
Location: East north east of Soapweed
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Big Swede wrote: |
| I think we've all got our minds so wrapped around weaning weights that it's hard to see the bigger picture. Fertility, the most important trait is the one most affected with an F1 female. More calves born per cow without having to replace her means greater longevity. That means less depreciation per cow, another very important factor to our bottom line. I've been looking at crossbreeding for years but can't seem to pull the trigger because straight breeding Angus seems so easy. I think about crossbreeding and then I go look at the Angus herd that I buy bulls from and think how could crossbreeding make them any better than that. Maybe I think too much? |
I agree to some point.... Depends on your operation.... We sell calves to feed. So for us the botttom line is pounds across the scale..We're finding that in feeding out our calves once in awhile we can see what our calves are doing and what the feeders are doing... When corn was so high we saw fats that weren't (in my book) fat... They were just big....I think the traditonal fat calf has changed from what most consider..And you need that certain frame... Grow em, but keep em green...Each operation is differant. I wouldn't want anyone to change their operation just because I was doing it... Ranchin is not one size fits-all... And that is what makes it so damn much fun!!!
ps.....
The sun is shining with sun dogs today!!!! Yeeee Hawwwww!!!
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Big Swede
Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 799
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| The last time I was at the calf sale I paid attention to the straight Angus steers compared to the groups with Angus and F1 baldies mixed in. Didn't seem to matter too much, they brought about the same money. Then when they brought in the baldie F1 heifers they brought just as much or more than the straight blacks.
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Dylan Biggs
Rancher
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1444
Location: hanna,alberta
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| MoGal wrote: |
What about tarentaise?
They had them on "the cattle show" as a featured breed and I thought they were nice.... they were solid red (and maybe that's the only color they come in, I don't know).
Anyone have any experience with those or crosses thereof?
Also, do the red polls do okay in Canada? |
I am a chronic experimenter, as far as feminine, functional females, feet and udder quality some of the nicest cows around. We used some tarentaise semen in 96, three different bulls the old Big M Senator bull and Ajax and Dominator. Got some big calves from senator, perfect footed cows but udders got very large. The other two produced some really good functional little, frame 4.5 to 5.5, cross bred cows. We don't sell calves probably if we had we would have been discounted not because of quality but because of color. As yearlings they sold well with the rest of our yearlings.
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cowhunter
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 494
Location: williston florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: sorry lazy ace, ive been buzy |
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| The futher south in fla the earlyer the calf and grass. Grass trys to green up around here the first of feb but it gets kilt back from frost most of the time. But dependin on moisture, it keeps tryin to come back. It takes some real cold weither, several days in a row to put it in a dorment state again. Most cowfolks around here like to calf in jan to feb. I like mine to calf mid feb. I found a new calf today. A red/white heifer. She lookes like her mama. Her mama lost her calf last year. This will be her last chance. I got a pic but am to ignert to send it. I can send it to a email if anybody wonts to look.
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cowhunter
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 494
Location: williston florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: and oh yea |
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| Lazy ace there's lots of purebred breeders here. I'm lookin at the 63rd angus edition in a old fla cattlemen magizine. November 09. Everything yall got we got down here to. Lots of angus and chars, then big brahman breeders. There as into it as yall. There so pertular, they make dayworkers take there ropes and whips of there saddles. I cussed one so bad one time, a fly wouldn't even lite on him. Only the brahman breeder are crackers. The rest are rich race horse people that need to spend some money. Or yall have run them off from the cold country for arguein about bad feet, birth weight weight or cod sack sercomference. They've took up down here where they can look down on us ignert crackers. They all ai.
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red61
Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Location: NE Neb/ NW Ia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| MoGal wrote: |
What about tarentaise?
They had them on "the cattle show" as a featured breed and I thought they were nice.... they were solid red (and maybe that's the only color they come in, I don't know).
Anyone have any experience with those or crosses thereof?
Also, do the red polls do okay in Canada? |
We (I should say dad, I don't personally own any) have about 60 head of purebred Tarentaise. Purebreds are solid red, there has been a few black ones, but nothing I've ever used.
We sell a lot of crossbred females (usually Angus or Red Angus crosses), both open and bred. Lot of the people who buy them cross them with Simmental and Charolais and get good feedlot steers. Most of our bulls go to guys who use them for crossbreeding also. Most of the Angus x come out brown colored or near black. The Red Angus x come out looking more like a lighter Red Angus. We don't sell many to the sale barn, so I don't know how big of a hit they take. Our carcass data from the feedlot we take our calves to has always made us happy.
Purebreds are good mothers, but you have to watch bloodlines, some get nasty. They are very feminine, some almost to the point of being a little fine boned and can be slightly light muscled in the rear (which we are constantly breeding to have thicker, beefy-er type cows). They milk really well and usually wean nice sized calves.
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Plenty can be said as to the benefits of heterosis but it still all depends on your particular market place.