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Northern Rancher
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12235
Location: saskatchewan
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 Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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In the Angus breed were kind of l;oising the middle-we have the big corn fed racehorses and the teeny weenies that are supposed to be the grass type. The middle that made the breed what it is aren't that popular it seems.
Mind you what I call middle of the road m ight be the ditch to some lol.
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leanin' H
Rancher
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 4095
Location: Western Utah Desert
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RobertMac
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 3725
Location: Mississippi, USA
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RSL
Rancher
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 1202
Location: 48 5W4
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leanin' H
Rancher
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 4095
Location: Western Utah Desert
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andybob
Rancher
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 1023
Location: Laverstoke England.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Northern Rancher wrote: |
In the Angus breed were kind of l;oising the middle-we have the big corn fed racehorses and the teeny weenies that are supposed to be the grass type. The middle that made the breed what it is aren't that popular it seems.
Mind you what I call middle of the road m ight be the ditch to some lol. |
The traditional native Aberdeen Angus still hold their own as a grazing breed, the herd here gets no supplimentary feed, only minerals, and have outwintered on native pasture, when this and other breeds were selected for non traditional traits, and other genetics added we lost the traditional breed characteristics, the demand for the few remaining unadulterated native Angus and Hereford has increased with the need for easy keeping cattle for the temperate climate herds. I,ll get some pictures of some of the herd here for the weekend.
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Soapweed
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 11627
Location: northern Nebraska Sandhills
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| leanin' H wrote: |
| RobertMac wrote: |
| leanin' H wrote: |
A nice balanced Angus will always be a good bet. While some do chase extremes, some stay the course.  Ask Soap! And lots of commercial outfits i know of that build around balance. |
Balanced in what context?
I think Soapweed has it exactly right! |
I agree. My definition of balance is a moderate framed cow with a good bag that sticks around for 12 years or better and carries that uniformity through a set of cows. I don't like WW EPD's over 50, YW over 90 or Milk over 25. What some folks seem to forget is that during the 80's when they were crossing Angus with everything from Belgian plow horses to elephants, there were still some guys who stayed with balanced middle of the road cattle. They still exist in pretty fair numbers today. Not everyone chases numbers, especially carcass, and disregards everything else. Soap is doing it right in my eyes, which means that Soap ought'a change stuff in a hurry as what I like usually doesnt work! |
I'm not doing things too right, or I wouldn't be calving today, in this weather.   I remembered why I don't try to calve in April and May. It's because I'd rather calve in snow than rain. We got a cold wet spring rain during the night, and it is chilly on the new babies. Oh well, the good start to the grass before too long will make it all worthwhile.
As far as our cattle program, I just try to stay in the middle of the road. Our cows aren't really good and they are not really bad, but they are all about the same. As far as buying someone's "best" bulls, like it or not, that usually means buying their biggest bulls. I don't want that. Numbers don't mean anything to me, and the bulls I buy don't have any numbers. What does mean something to me is how a bull looks, how he travels, and his disposition. We have quite a bunch of cows that are eleven years old this spring, and they are still going strong and having great calves. They have stood the test of time, and I expect their younger sisters to do likewise.
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Badlands
Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 419
Location: Eastern MT/about 10 miles up the creek from Faster Horses
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Several people have referred to "middle of the road". What is that?
Middle of the road cattle in the 60's, 70's or 80's are not middle of the road now.
NR, not to pick on you directly, but to use your example to discuss-
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| In the Angus breed were kind of losing the middle-we have the big corn fed racehorses and the teeny weenies that are supposed to be the grass type. The middle that made the breed what it is aren't that popular it seems. |
I believe that the "middle that made the breed" was actually lower performing than some of the low-input cattle that are available today. How does that work? Are we really talking about what makes a breed work today, or are we just reminiscing? Are we just using "middle of the road" as term that makes us feel good and helps us sell a bull, or does it really mean something?
Badlands
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24333
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone has a little differing middle of the road...When I think middle of the road I look for no extremes anywhere- and use the EPD's mainly to see that there are no real "outlier" characteristics...
After deciding I like the phenotype and pedigree- I use the EPD's to give me a further idea of what they will do...
My target angus animal to raise is middle of the road on EPD's too-
BW- -1 to +3
WW- 20 to 40
YW- 40 to 70
Milk- 15 to 20
$EN 10+
$W 20+ (like to see a combination of the $EN + $W be over 40)
with a positive scrotal- marb.- and RE-- that will mature in a 4-6 frame....
Unlike many high performance cattle- I also like to see a + fat, because I think in these colder temps that is needed and better for efficiency....
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Northern Rancher
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12235
Location: saskatchewan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| It means something to me and the people I do business with and that is really all that matters. We've pretty much run the same type of cattle for a long time here and never chasaed the fads and figures. I guess I'm reminscing about the good old days because inn alot of ways genetically they were.
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leanin' H
Rancher
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 4095
Location: Western Utah Desert
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RSL
Rancher
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 1202
Location: 48 5W4
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my question on this thread is, when did we actually get off track as a whole? Were the cattle of yesterday so much better across the board? I know operations where they breed good cattle and their grandparents bred good cattle, etc., but I have also seen pictures of what to my eye appear relatively useless cattle in the 1980's, 1950's, 1930's. 1880's, etc. I know the economics at our place are different today than they were when my great great grandfather started, and when my dad took over, and they will change again before my kids want to farm. I guess what I am asking is this...
If we are going off the rails, is it a current or ongoing tragedy, and if so what year/era were we on the rails?
Hindsight is always 20:20 and I am sure we have screwed lots of things up today that we will realize tomorrow, but as a whole I think we must have been 50% or more right over time. 
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