Bulls- High forage ration?????

[Just Ranchin]

I am really starting to get frustrated with the amount of seedstock bull producers out there that claim to have a "high forage ration". We have built our business on this and now we have competing bull producers claiming the same "ranch raised" bulls even though they have seen hard feed since day 1. It seems like everybody says it even though you go to their yard and the bulls are on a finishing ration that is "a high roughage ration". It seems like it is what people "should" put in their catalogue, even though they are point blank lying. Also, how in the hell are some of these bulls weighing 1300+ on a "high roughage ration" when a feedlot is happy if he can have a 1350 lbs finished steer at 14 months? Amazingly, I feel better now.

[Justin]

i think it's a requirement for bull producers to put "high roughage ration" somewhere in their catalogs. could be the most over used phrase in the cattle business.

[Larrry]

" a little bit of grain" explain a little bit

"no creep" no but the cows are fed like crazy or there is hole in the fence and the calves are slippin over to graze wheat.

How come so many brags about living in the best cow country but then they tell about how their cows do so well in tough country.

I've seen forage that cows get fat on or forage where they starve.

It's all relative

[Grassfarmer]

[leanin' H]

To play devil's advocate or just the devil to some of ya.......Why feed bulls at all? If they cant survive without feed what good are they. Grassfarmer said a bull is predetermined when he is born and then says forage raised bulls are more fertile and cover more cows! But only if he is predetermined right! If a bull has the right genetic makeup his cow could be a poor bagged non milking chain smoker and he will still do fine! Or we could all realize that any animal in good flesh is a sign of a healthy animal regardless of feed. I don't like over fat bulls and WONT buy one! They melt like my son's icecream on the 4th of July! But somebody sure must buy bulls like that cause the catalogs have lots of them. Buy what works for you, in your plan and in your climate.

[Dylan Biggs]

High roughage ration without the exact ration formulation is meaningless. If the buyers don't care they won't ask. If buyers don't ask they won't know. The thing that those of us who raise our bulls without high energy rations have to do is communicate our exact feeding regime. The buyers that value the low energy slow grown approach will be interested. Here they are a small minority but growing none the less. Another way to look at the mainstreaming of at least the idea of high roughage is that there is obviously a growing acknowledgment of it's value. Though, like Just Ranchin, I find the lip service sire manure(BS) very hard to take.

[elwapo]

There is a fine line between feeding a bull to find out his genetic potential and over-feeding energy which causes undesirable effects such as burnt out livers and founder. Until the day comes that cattle are no longer finished in feedlots, performance testing bulls is the best indicator cattlemen have to gauge the finishing potential of a bulls offspring. Forage testing would be great if cattle were finished on grass like they did 100 years ago. But I am afraid that horse has left the barn. When I am looking to purchase a bull I shy away from both the guys that over feed and the guys that have under fed their bulls. There is nothing worse than walking into a pen of bulls and seeing a creep feeder full of grain at their disposal.

[Grassfarmer]

[AX-]

Our bulls maxed out at 8 lbs. of roasted grain (corn, soybeans, shredded beats, barley and cotton seed hulls). The rest is free choice low quality CRP grass hay. They have an average gain of 2.4 and adjusted YW of about 990 lbs. Back fat of about 0.2 inches. It is real interesting listening to buyers. Had a repeat customer look today saying how he really likes how my bulls are fed. About half agree with him and the other half say they could use some more weight. It seems that most will buy the fat bulls for more money, but at least I can feel good about what the bull should do for my customer. They usually look good in the fall and have good feet. We had very little problems with fertility doing it this way as well.

I know this - you can't hide the inferior bulls feeding this way and that is good. We used to take them to a bull test and gain 3.5-4 lbs./day and the bad ones looked pretty good at the end. It makes it a lot easier for me to cull the bottom and give the customers the good ones this way.

AXTELLCATTLECOMPANY.COM

[Grassfarmer]

Here is a question for all the guys that like to buy/sell or use bulls that weigh 1100+ as yearlings or 1700lbs+ as two year olds - what weight are your females at the same age? I'm guessing they are lighter? Why is it acceptable for them but not the males of the species?

[Hereford76]

[Just Ranchin]

I talked to a breeder the other day and mentioned that his bulls were getting loose. Turns out they were getting 23 lbs of grain. I gasped, reached for my heart and started convulsing. I then open up his book, and wouldn't you know it "These bulls are fed with you the customer in mind, as they are not pushed developed slowly on a high roughage ration". I wanted to beat him with his own sales catalogue.