Bulls- High forage ration?????

[Shortgrass]

Fat Bulls do sell better, so if I am a seedstock producer, do I want fat bulls? If I am buying bulls, I want a well grown, but not fat bull. It is a shame that the bull producer that is doing it right may seem to get the short end of the sale, but over the years, he is the fella that has a sustainable business. Some of these over fat bull producers are a flash in the pan. I have bought bulls from a second generation producer that has stayed the coarse, but now the third generation is assuming management of the Limo herd, and I don't like what I see. I would commend the producer that is absolutly honest about rations, value, genetics, performance, knows how to use a knife, and backs his product. He will survive. I really like to watch the feet and avoid the ol' lobster toed animal. That seems to go with a bull that has been pushed too hard.

[nortexsook]

[Big Swede]

Well said as usual NR. One question though. For a breeder that gets his bulls too fat, the ones that melt come fall, why do guys keep coming back to buy them next year? If you truly don't like how your bulls hold up and you keep going back then there's no one to blame but you. If a breeder/feeder ran out of customers eventually maybe he would get the clue. Until then he is only feeding bulls the way his customers apparently want them.

[Big Swede]

I guess I'm not the only one with that question. Must not have refreshed my computer.

[TexasBred]

[Northern Rancher]

I have no idea why they keep going back-maybe some guys just get addicted to the whole deal-lord knows Leachman's never had trouble drawing a crowd and he'd try and convince you a threel legged Ayrshire was the next hot thing. I'll stick to the little low key deals where at least you know the cattle work and the money is real. One of the most frustrating deals Iever sold a bull into-he got him then fed the crap out of him so he'd look nicer after he got him. I often wonder what the cost of production is on some of the fatties-it must be alot- I worked on a Charolais outfit out of college-about 400 mother cows that were ranched. One of my jobs was to feed about a 100 coming twos out in the hills-those bulls were lean breeding machines. Old Bill told me if you can't burn your registration papers and still pay your bills you might be in the wrong business.

[Doug Thorson]

[Northern Rancher]

Bill Hunt was a sage old cowboy-Ilearned alot in my time there.

[greybeard]

My understanding is a 3# gain /day ration is needs to have about a net energy gain {Neg} of 52. If you use the default numbers on most feed programs that is about 1/2 corn silage and 1/2 corn grain. Maybe a "high forage" ration to some. As I understand, this is a common ration to "grow" bulls out.
Now if you are using barley as the grain portion, it only has a Neg of 52, not leaving much room for forage.
The old Scottish vet I used to buy Simmi bulls from used 1 pail of screenings pellets per 5 bulls.
I don't think you will ever catch anyone with any Scotch in their genes fattening them like hogs for the sale and then melting them down before delivery. LOL

[Grassfarmer]

[elwapo]

Greybeard
We max out at 12 lbs of grain and average just over 3 lb of gain. They are eating 25-30 lbs of silage depending on the temperature. To feed 50% grain to get 3 lbs gain is definitely an indicator of poor feed conversion. But then again the guys feeding forage only probably will never know that information will they?

[Denny]

If all your getting for bulls is steer price why bother with it.

Another thing what percent of cattle are fed on a ration of silage and by-products a hell of alot more than grass fed. I would think you need to have cattle that can convert these feed stuffs effiecently. This grass fed hoopla will never get very big there's no land base for it in the united states. I rent some pretty marginal hayfields that put up a 1/2 to a ton of hay per acre corn silage on those acres would generate 10 to 15 ton per acre.With a growing world population we will need to get as much as possible out of our acres and our genetics.

You can feed bulls a ration of hay/silage/corn and not ruin them you just need to use some common sense. If your cows are worth a damn the calves should be weaning off the cow in the 600#to 700# range if they have proper nutrition. And no creep either just good summer grass,pond water and minerals.That makes a target weight not that hard to attain.This would be on march born calves which is the majority here.

Draw a 50 mile circle around your home thats where 90% of your bulls are heading. How many grassfed guru's in that circle.Here 95% of those guys are selling feeder cattle in the fall so they want high weaning weights and high yearling weights so the feedlot comes back next year.I don't know but one grassfed guru here and he's into those lowline cattle anyhow.

There is a corner for everyone in this business and the customers will decide who get's a bigger slice of the pie.