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katrina
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 7655
Location: East north east of Soapweed
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Denny
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 4326
Location: Mn usa
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elwapo
Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 797
Location: medicine hat
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 Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Dylan
We have turned in to the rain-forest here the past couple of years. I was up in the Hanna area yesterday. Looks like you have a start at least this year. There are some pretty hard grazed pastures in your area that will take some rest and rain to bring back.
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RobertMac
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 3725
Location: Mississippi, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Denny wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| PureCountry wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
| If your cows are worth a damn the calves should be weaning off the cow in the 600#to 700# range if they have proper nutrition. |
Why? |
Cos weaning weight equals profit don't ya know 
It's easy PC you just need to get with the program - stock up on these 1100lb cows that can wean 54-63% of their weight. The country is full of them apparently - a by-product of "performance testing" your bulls to prove their suitability as terminal sires  |
And running light calves over another year does'nt cost anything does it.
You know I ran some 1/2 highlander cows wide muzzeled big bodied cows just like your pictures showed. Those cows consumed more forage than my no good black cows but what the hell those 400# hairy calves come november could'nt even cover the cows feed bill.I had them penned seperate when selling time came and those cows have ALOT of capacity and they fill it with forage.
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. I'm accused of under feeding all the time so don't go painting my operation with your wide brush that the creep feeder are full of grain.As a matter of fact I have'nt fed 5 gallons of corn all winter to my cows or replacement heifers. They are getting corn silage that by the way was planted in june with NO commercial fertilizer so it's not exactly rolling with gold nuggets.That and some ground swamp grass mixed with it. I fed syrup for about a month to the cows but it's to muddy to continue with that and not cost effective.
You two guys who are meat jockeys can't say each cow is making all that profit. You are both adding value by further processing the end product. Your getting the all the money but also doing all the work from birth to death and beyond and basically the cow is making so much,then your selling grass,and silage,hay,processing fees sales cost's etc.etc.etc. You both act like that is all free and it is'nt. That would be like me saying well I built ten trailers this winter so my cows made another $20,000 thats bull I made another $20,000 working another aspect of my life. Don't go acting like one cow made $2500 on a fat steer take out all the cost's associated with it and tell the truth on the real profit.To run your calves over winter it's costing you at least 75 cents per day weather you admit it or not then the extra acreage for summer grassing the yearlings buy a pencil and write down all expences. And figure something for labor even if your are exploiting your kids because those kids grow up fast and if all you did was work the crap out of them they leave even faster. |
I run about 100 head per year and spend $20,000-25,000 per year. I don't sell everything as meat and don't get quite that much, but know it's possible.
Dylan, I run about 50 head per quarter...different environments!!!!! That's why I always say to match the cow to the environment.
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PureCountry
Rancher
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 2266
Location: E./central Alberta, Battle River hills
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| PureCountry wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
| If your cows are worth a damn the calves should be weaning off the cow in the 600#to 700# range if they have proper nutrition. |
Why? |
Cos weaning weight equals profit don't ya know
It's easy PC you just need to get with the program - stock up on these 1100lb cows that can wean 54-63% of their weight. The country is full of them apparently - a by-product of "performance testing" your bulls to prove their suitability as terminal sires |
And running light calves over another year does'nt cost anything does it.
You know I ran some 1/2 highlander cows wide muzzeled big bodied cows just like your pictures showed. Those cows consumed more forage than my no good black cows but what the hell those 400# hairy calves come november could'nt even cover the cows feed bill.I had them penned seperate when selling time came and those cows have ALOT of capacity and they fill it with forage.
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. I'm accused of under feeding all the time so don't go painting my operation with your wide brush that the creep feeder are full of grain.As a matter of fact I have'nt fed 5 gallons of corn all winter to my cows or replacement heifers. They are getting corn silage that by the way was planted in june with NO commercial fertilizer so it's not exactly rolling with gold nuggets.That and some ground swamp grass mixed with it. I fed syrup for about a month to the cows but it's to muddy to continue with that and not cost effective.
You two guys who are meat jockeys can't say each cow is making all that profit. You are both adding value by further processing the end product. Your getting the all the money but also doing all the work from birth to death and beyond and basically the cow is making so much,then your selling grass,and silage,hay,processing fees sales cost's etc.etc.etc. You both act like that is all free and it is'nt. That would be like me saying well I built ten trailers this winter so my cows made another $20,000 thats bull I made another $20,000 working another aspect of my life. Don't go acting like one cow made $2500 on a fat steer take out all the cost's associated with it and tell the truth on the real profit.To run your calves over winter it's costing you at least 75 cents per day weather you admit it or not then the extra acreage for summer grassing the yearlings buy a pencil and write down all expences. And figure something for labor even if your are exploiting your kids because those kids grow up fast and if all you did was work the crap out of them they leave even faster. |
Who's painting with a wide brush?
I know your reply was directed at Grassfarmer, but I'd like to make an attempt to cool things down here, even though these heated debates keep things lively around here.
Denny, I'm well aware of what those backgrounded calves cost to winter - our winters are a little more severe than yours, so I know they don't get by on air and love. I also know what grass yearlings cost me. I know what they cost me in their 2nd winter, and as grass finished fats when they turn 2. To draw a correlation between my calculations and your trailer business is just false, their 2 different businesses altogether. You could technically break down our different enterprises if you really wanted to , but I don't, and that's my choice. Just as it's my choice to run the cows I do.
I have no idea which of my cows is eating more than the rest, be they the Highlands, the Galloways, the Angus or the crosses. As far as me choosing ones that can't get it done, I used to have cows that weaned 55-60% every year, and they cost more in our winters than the cows I have now, because there was a higher percentage of them open every year, plus late calves that didn't fit in, plus bigger cows that ON AVERAGE, eat more. I can't tell you how many pounds mine eat, but what I can tell you is they cost me around $400/year to run, depending on the year if we have to buy in feed or can get by on swath-grazing or stockpiled grass. The grassers cost another $300/yr to run until they finish at 2, for a total expense of around $1,000. Some years more, some less. $2500 potential profit is easy to figure out:
700lb carcass X $4/lb = $2,800. Sure we pay the cutting and wrapping and have more work into finishing animals ourselves - SO DO FEEDLOTS, and how much do you think they make? Some years our fats have cost us over $1200/hd, and with $400-800 in processing costs at the butcher, we're still making some decent money per animal, despite running around the country to a farmer's market once a week.
Our numbers work for us, I've never sat down with the pencil and paper and looked across at the wife and said, "Okay, let's make these numbers work for Denny."
Obviously you've got something figured out because you're still going, so good on ya. As for my numbers or choices, if you don't like 'em, don't bother letting me know, and I'll go on losing sleep over it.
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Grassfarmer
Rancher
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Central Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Denny wrote: |
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. |
I guess that would depend how old they are when you wean them too? In my experience the type that can wean this weight of calf (% of dam's bodyweight) are usually accompanied by high cow maintenance costs and high inputs. The ones that aren't tend to belong to folks that don't own a scale or have bulls to market.
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andybob
Rancher
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 1023
Location: Laverstoke England.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Growing up with "veld reared" cattle, and having exported to severe environments in neighbouring countries without any of my cattle falling apart,
it came as a surprise when cattlemen in NC felt I should feed any bulls intended for sale. While they agreed in principle that cattle should be low maintenance, they were still unable to make the shift in thinking that cattle need irrigated pasture, bagged feed and winter hay (in NC?) when mine were grazing old cotton fields with only free choice minerals as a suppliment.
Cattle adapted to their environment don't need pampering, and profit is erroded by unneccesary costs. Here in the UK the native strain cattle on the estate cope throughout the year on pasture, and as we get little snow, hay is not neccessary, more a costly tradition on the part of the neighbours!
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cowboyup
Member
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 426
Location: where i am
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. |
I guess that would depend how old they are when you wean them too? In my experience the type that can wean this weight of calf (% of dam's bodyweight) are usually accompanied by high cow maintenance costs and high inputs. The ones that aren't tend to belong to folks that don't own a scale or have bulls to market. |
If your cows have any milk they should raise these kind of calves without all the extra feed costs. for the record I sale alot of hay so I know what my bales weigh and I winter on 25 lbs per cow per day jan. thru 1st of may most years this one a little less.
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Grassfarmer
Rancher
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Central Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| cowboyup wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. |
I guess that would depend how old they are when you wean them too? In my experience the type that can wean this weight of calf (% of dam's bodyweight) are usually accompanied by high cow maintenance costs and high inputs. The ones that aren't tend to belong to folks that don't own a scale or have bulls to market. |
If your cows have any milk they should raise these kind of calves without all the extra feed costs. for the record I sale alot of hay so I know what my bales weigh and I winter on 25 lbs per cow per day jan. thru 1st of may most years this one a little less. |
I was talking about a scale to weigh cattle rather than hay but I guess both are relevant. How heavy are your cows that can winter on 25lbs of hay and is this their sole ration or do they have grass to graze as well?
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Yanuck
Rancher
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4273
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| cowboyup wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. |
I guess that would depend how old they are when you wean them too? In my experience the type that can wean this weight of calf (% of dam's bodyweight) are usually accompanied by high cow maintenance costs and high inputs. The ones that aren't tend to belong to folks that don't own a scale or have bulls to market. |
If your cows have any milk they should raise these kind of calves without all the extra feed costs. for the record I sale alot of hay so I know what my bales weigh and I winter on 25 lbs per cow per day jan. thru 1st of may most years this one a little less. |
I was talking about a scale to weigh cattle rather than hay but I guess both are relevant. How heavy are your cows that can winter on 25lbs of hay and is this their sole ration or do they have grass to graze as well? |
Gf are you saying that 25 lbs of hay isn't enough or its too much?
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Grassfarmer
Rancher
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Central Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I wasn't saying either Yanuck - I was asking what weight his cows were and whether 25lbs of hay was their sole feed source.
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Yanuck
Rancher
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4273
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| I wasn't saying either Yanuck - I was asking what weight his cows were and whether 25lbs of hay was their sole feed source. |
thats what we feed ours, no grass as we have 3 to 4 feet of snow,they have salt and mineral, they walk a mile or so for water, and we have some rather large "sisters"
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