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burnt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 4250
Location: Mid-western Ontario
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flounder
Rancher
Joined: 03 Sep 2005
Posts: 2418
Location: TEXAS
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Tam
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 8027
Location: Sask
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 Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
Rhode Island probably doesn't have a brand system. I doubt if Massachusetts, Delaware, Alaska do either. Maybe you get the point...
..... |
| Quote: |
Cattle rustling plagues US ranchers
New York Times - 03/29/2009 | Posted: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:00 pm
..CLEVER, Mo. -- Crashing through a gate in the dead of night, thieves using trucks and trailers recently robbed a farmer here of 53 Brahman crossbreed cows valued at some $50,000.
Known for a distinctive hump at the base of the neck, Brahman cattle are rare here and would be easily spotted at a local auction, leading investigators to think the rustlers already had a buyer -- or a butcher -- lined up.
"Those were full-grown cows," Sheriff Joey Kyle of Christian County said. "Around 1,100 pounds apiece. That's 53,000 pounds of beef on the hoof. Your normal stock trailer will handle a dozen to 15 cows, so do the math."
It was the first cattle theft in the county in more than two years and the largest state officials could recall. It came amid a surge of such thefts here in southwestern Missouri. In January, rustlers hauled away 41 cows in nearby Lawrence County. Investigators in Barry County report 30 head stolen in the last six months. In Greene County, Sheriff Jim Arnott said rustlers had struck 10 times since October, stealing a total of 93 cows.
"It's a big spike," Arnott said. "Usually we'll go a year or two with no thefts, but it's really picked up. In these economic times people are taking desperate measures, whether it's stealing, or whether they're trying to come up with money through insurance fraud."
Earlier this month, rustlers in Watertown, S.D., used tractor-trailers to steal nearly 200 cows from an auction market. State officials in Wyoming report that thieves stole 225 head of cattle in 2008, up from 90 in 2006.
In Montana, where 60 cattle were recently reported missing in a series of thefts, officials described an increase in rustling since the summer, and the International Livestock Identification Association reported swelling numbers of missing-animal claims this year among its 20 member states.
Equally alarming, investigators say, is a spike in cattle-related fraud. Out-of-state buyers build a relationship with an auction market, only to disappear with livestock they used in-house credit to buy but never paid for. Investigators also say that people are now falsely claiming ownership of cattle as collateral for loans.
"It's across the board," Lee Romsa, state brand commissioner for the Wyoming Livestock Board, said. "We're not just seeing more thefts; we're seeing more large thefts."
Still, no state seems as hard hit by cattle rustling as Missouri.
"They've just been plagued," said Larry Gray, head of law enforcement for the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association.
Gray, who said that cattle theft was often tied to drug activity, added that Missouri farmers might be more vulnerable to rustlers because many farmers there were "absentee producers" with smaller operations.
"Thieves like to prey on the smaller producers," he said, because "it's a lot easier for the thieves to get and load the cattle."
Also, unlike many larger cattle-producing Western states, Missouri does not have a "brand law," meaning that cattle producers are not required to register brands with the state.
Not having to register saves many of the state's 65,000 ranchers from paying fees, but it also means that cattle often carry no identifying marks. Auction markets and stockyards are not required to verify ownership of unbranded cattle, and that, the authorities say, allows thieves to unload stolen livestock quickly.
"You could drive up to any sale barn, drop off your load of cattle, and if they pass the agricultural inspection and are sold, you'd get a check in the mail," Sgt. Jason Clark, a Missouri Highway Patrol spokesman, said.
Since 2004, after a surge in cattle thefts following a spike in beef prices, many of the roughly 130 auction markets in Missouri have begun asking for identification and proof of ownership from anyone trying to sell unbranded cattle. But the program is voluntary, and the Missouri Cattlemen's Association estimates that thieves have stolen more than $1.1 million in cattle and equipment in the past four years.
To counter the tide, sheriffs have stepped up their efforts, pulling over suspicious cattle trailers, educating farmers and ranchers about protecting their livestock, distributing fliers at feed stores and notifying auction markets when a theft occurs.
But investigators say efforts to track down stolen cattle rarely bear fruit. There is no national identification database for cattle, and thieves often move quickly, shipping stolen animals to auction markets in other states that do not require brand inspection.
"If they don't have a chip or branding or a tattoo, you're pretty much looking for a black cow," said Arnott, who said he had traced stolen cattle as far as Mississippi.
Bob Gammon, who owns a farm in southwestern Missouri, has branded his cattle since he began raising them in 1946. Still, Gammon has not been able to recover the 18 head that were stolen in January. "When I got there the next morning, there was a gate laying down and a few cattle out on the road," said Gammon, who has put heavier chains on his gates and installed an alarm and lighting system in several farm buildings. "I thought I was doing everything right, but I haven't heard from the cattle yet."
Kyle, who said a subpoena had recently been issued in the Brahman theft in Christian County, said local officials were under pressure to find stolen cattle before the animals disappeared inside a slaughterhouse.
"Down here, a sheriff lives or dies by whether he keeps the cattle thefts down," he said. "But there are no serial numbers on hamburgers." |
"But investigators say efforts to track down stolen cattle rarely bear fruit. There is no national identification database for cattle, and thieves often move quickly, shipping stolen animals to auction markets in other states that do not require brand inspection.
"If they don't have a chip or branding or a tattoo, you're pretty much looking for a black cow," said Arnott, who said he had traced stolen cattle as far as Mississippi" maybe you will get the point but i doubt it. 
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mwj
Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 473
Location: central Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
Tam, my cows are IDed, and so are everybody's that I know of. There are 150,000 momma cows in this county alone and all are IDed, as well their calves.
Nobody else has been able to tell me, maybe you can, Tam. How is Canada guaranteeing that BSE infected beef is not entering the food chain? |
How good is that ID if they leave your county or state to be fed or slaughtered. How about if we were to fill a feedlot or slaughter plant with cattle with the same ID from different states? |
If the cattle leave the country, ID would be the responsibility of that country. It's been proven many times that branded cattle can be tracked over state lines and through multiple sales already. The odds of cattle with the same brands comingling in a feedlot or slaughter plant is very small and, even if that would happen, all the animals are not just dumped in one big pen - they are split up and every packer/feeder can easily check what load went into what pen. |
Here you go Sandhusker you are saying that the truckers paperwork on the load of cattle trumps the brand. The brand on the cattle is not enough by itself to ID the cattle in the pen.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Tam wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
Rhode Island probably doesn't have a brand system. I doubt if Massachusetts, Delaware, Alaska do either. Maybe you get the point...
..... |
| Quote: |
Cattle rustling plagues US ranchers
New York Times - 03/29/2009 | Posted: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:00 pm
..CLEVER, Mo. -- Crashing through a gate in the dead of night, thieves using trucks and trailers recently robbed a farmer here of 53 Brahman crossbreed cows valued at some $50,000.
Known for a distinctive hump at the base of the neck, Brahman cattle are rare here and would be easily spotted at a local auction, leading investigators to think the rustlers already had a buyer -- or a butcher -- lined up.
"Those were full-grown cows," Sheriff Joey Kyle of Christian County said. "Around 1,100 pounds apiece. That's 53,000 pounds of beef on the hoof. Your normal stock trailer will handle a dozen to 15 cows, so do the math."
It was the first cattle theft in the county in more than two years and the largest state officials could recall. It came amid a surge of such thefts here in southwestern Missouri. In January, rustlers hauled away 41 cows in nearby Lawrence County. Investigators in Barry County report 30 head stolen in the last six months. In Greene County, Sheriff Jim Arnott said rustlers had struck 10 times since October, stealing a total of 93 cows.
"It's a big spike," Arnott said. "Usually we'll go a year or two with no thefts, but it's really picked up. In these economic times people are taking desperate measures, whether it's stealing, or whether they're trying to come up with money through insurance fraud."
Earlier this month, rustlers in Watertown, S.D., used tractor-trailers to steal nearly 200 cows from an auction market. State officials in Wyoming report that thieves stole 225 head of cattle in 2008, up from 90 in 2006.
In Montana, where 60 cattle were recently reported missing in a series of thefts, officials described an increase in rustling since the summer, and the International Livestock Identification Association reported swelling numbers of missing-animal claims this year among its 20 member states.
Equally alarming, investigators say, is a spike in cattle-related fraud. Out-of-state buyers build a relationship with an auction market, only to disappear with livestock they used in-house credit to buy but never paid for. Investigators also say that people are now falsely claiming ownership of cattle as collateral for loans.
"It's across the board," Lee Romsa, state brand commissioner for the Wyoming Livestock Board, said. "We're not just seeing more thefts; we're seeing more large thefts."
Still, no state seems as hard hit by cattle rustling as Missouri.
"They've just been plagued," said Larry Gray, head of law enforcement for the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association.
Gray, who said that cattle theft was often tied to drug activity, added that Missouri farmers might be more vulnerable to rustlers because many farmers there were "absentee producers" with smaller operations.
"Thieves like to prey on the smaller producers," he said, because "it's a lot easier for the thieves to get and load the cattle."
Also, unlike many larger cattle-producing Western states, Missouri does not have a "brand law," meaning that cattle producers are not required to register brands with the state.
Not having to register saves many of the state's 65,000 ranchers from paying fees, but it also means that cattle often carry no identifying marks. Auction markets and stockyards are not required to verify ownership of unbranded cattle, and that, the authorities say, allows thieves to unload stolen livestock quickly.
"You could drive up to any sale barn, drop off your load of cattle, and if they pass the agricultural inspection and are sold, you'd get a check in the mail," Sgt. Jason Clark, a Missouri Highway Patrol spokesman, said.
Since 2004, after a surge in cattle thefts following a spike in beef prices, many of the roughly 130 auction markets in Missouri have begun asking for identification and proof of ownership from anyone trying to sell unbranded cattle. But the program is voluntary, and the Missouri Cattlemen's Association estimates that thieves have stolen more than $1.1 million in cattle and equipment in the past four years.
To counter the tide, sheriffs have stepped up their efforts, pulling over suspicious cattle trailers, educating farmers and ranchers about protecting their livestock, distributing fliers at feed stores and notifying auction markets when a theft occurs.
But investigators say efforts to track down stolen cattle rarely bear fruit. There is no national identification database for cattle, and thieves often move quickly, shipping stolen animals to auction markets in other states that do not require brand inspection.
"If they don't have a chip or branding or a tattoo, you're pretty much looking for a black cow," said Arnott, who said he had traced stolen cattle as far as Mississippi.
Bob Gammon, who owns a farm in southwestern Missouri, has branded his cattle since he began raising them in 1946. Still, Gammon has not been able to recover the 18 head that were stolen in January. "When I got there the next morning, there was a gate laying down and a few cattle out on the road," said Gammon, who has put heavier chains on his gates and installed an alarm and lighting system in several farm buildings. "I thought I was doing everything right, but I haven't heard from the cattle yet."
Kyle, who said a subpoena had recently been issued in the Brahman theft in Christian County, said local officials were under pressure to find stolen cattle before the animals disappeared inside a slaughterhouse.
"Down here, a sheriff lives or dies by whether he keeps the cattle thefts down," he said. "But there are no serial numbers on hamburgers." |
"But investigators say efforts to track down stolen cattle rarely bear fruit. There is no national identification database for cattle, and thieves often move quickly, shipping stolen animals to auction markets in other states that do not require brand inspection.
"If they don't have a chip or branding or a tattoo, you're pretty much looking for a black cow," said Arnott, who said he had traced stolen cattle as far as Mississippi" maybe you will get the point but i doubt it. |
Your point is? You just brought an article that shows the usefulness of brands!  What would you rather steal, a cow with a permanent brand or a cow with an eartag?
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
Tam, my cows are IDed, and so are everybody's that I know of. There are 150,000 momma cows in this county alone and all are IDed, as well their calves.
Nobody else has been able to tell me, maybe you can, Tam. How is Canada guaranteeing that BSE infected beef is not entering the food chain? |
How good is that ID if they leave your county or state to be fed or slaughtered. How about if we were to fill a feedlot or slaughter plant with cattle with the same ID from different states? |
If the cattle leave the country, ID would be the responsibility of that country. It's been proven many times that branded cattle can be tracked over state lines and through multiple sales already. The odds of cattle with the same brands comingling in a feedlot or slaughter plant is very small and, even if that would happen, all the animals are not just dumped in one big pen - they are split up and every packer/feeder can easily check what load went into what pen. |
Here you go Sandhusker you are saying that the truckers paperwork on the load of cattle trumps the brand. The brand on the cattle is not enough by itself to ID the cattle in the pen. |
No I didn't. I'm saying that the paperwork confirms and backs up the brand.
What do you think is more likely; Three calves from three different states all with the exact same brand in the same location in the same pen or three calves with missing ear tags in the same pen?
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Tam
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 8027
Location: Sask
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| Tam wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
Rhode Island probably doesn't have a brand system. I doubt if Massachusetts, Delaware, Alaska do either. Maybe you get the point...
..... |
| Quote: |
Cattle rustling plagues US ranchers
New York Times - 03/29/2009 | Posted: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:00 pm
..CLEVER, Mo. -- Crashing through a gate in the dead of night, thieves using trucks and trailers recently robbed a farmer here of 53 Brahman crossbreed cows valued at some $50,000.
Known for a distinctive hump at the base of the neck, Brahman cattle are rare here and would be easily spotted at a local auction, leading investigators to think the rustlers already had a buyer -- or a butcher -- lined up.
"Those were full-grown cows," Sheriff Joey Kyle of Christian County said. "Around 1,100 pounds apiece. That's 53,000 pounds of beef on the hoof. Your normal stock trailer will handle a dozen to 15 cows, so do the math."
It was the first cattle theft in the county in more than two years and the largest state officials could recall. It came amid a surge of such thefts here in southwestern Missouri. In January, rustlers hauled away 41 cows in nearby Lawrence County. Investigators in Barry County report 30 head stolen in the last six months. In Greene County, Sheriff Jim Arnott said rustlers had struck 10 times since October, stealing a total of 93 cows.
"It's a big spike," Arnott said. "Usually we'll go a year or two with no thefts, but it's really picked up. In these economic times people are taking desperate measures, whether it's stealing, or whether they're trying to come up with money through insurance fraud."
Earlier this month, rustlers in Watertown, S.D., used tractor-trailers to steal nearly 200 cows from an auction market. State officials in Wyoming report that thieves stole 225 head of cattle in 2008, up from 90 in 2006.
In Montana, where 60 cattle were recently reported missing in a series of thefts, officials described an increase in rustling since the summer, and the International Livestock Identification Association reported swelling numbers of missing-animal claims this year among its 20 member states.
Equally alarming, investigators say, is a spike in cattle-related fraud. Out-of-state buyers build a relationship with an auction market, only to disappear with livestock they used in-house credit to buy but never paid for. Investigators also say that people are now falsely claiming ownership of cattle as collateral for loans.
"It's across the board," Lee Romsa, state brand commissioner for the Wyoming Livestock Board, said. "We're not just seeing more thefts; we're seeing more large thefts."
Still, no state seems as hard hit by cattle rustling as Missouri.
"They've just been plagued," said Larry Gray, head of law enforcement for the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association.
Gray, who said that cattle theft was often tied to drug activity, added that Missouri farmers might be more vulnerable to rustlers because many farmers there were "absentee producers" with smaller operations.
"Thieves like to prey on the smaller producers," he said, because "it's a lot easier for the thieves to get and load the cattle."
Also, unlike many larger cattle-producing Western states, Missouri does not have a "brand law," meaning that cattle producers are not required to register brands with the state.
Not having to register saves many of the state's 65,000 ranchers from paying fees, but it also means that cattle often carry no identifying marks. Auction markets and stockyards are not required to verify ownership of unbranded cattle, and that, the authorities say, allows thieves to unload stolen livestock quickly.
"You could drive up to any sale barn, drop off your load of cattle, and if they pass the agricultural inspection and are sold, you'd get a check in the mail," Sgt. Jason Clark, a Missouri Highway Patrol spokesman, said.
Since 2004, after a surge in cattle thefts following a spike in beef prices, many of the roughly 130 auction markets in Missouri have begun asking for identification and proof of ownership from anyone trying to sell unbranded cattle. But the program is voluntary, and the Missouri Cattlemen's Association estimates that thieves have stolen more than $1.1 million in cattle and equipment in the past four years.
To counter the tide, sheriffs have stepped up their efforts, pulling over suspicious cattle trailers, educating farmers and ranchers about protecting their livestock, distributing fliers at feed stores and notifying auction markets when a theft occurs.
But investigators say efforts to track down stolen cattle rarely bear fruit. There is no national identification database for cattle, and thieves often move quickly, shipping stolen animals to auction markets in other states that do not require brand inspection.
"If they don't have a chip or branding or a tattoo, you're pretty much looking for a black cow," said Arnott, who said he had traced stolen cattle as far as Mississippi.
Bob Gammon, who owns a farm in southwestern Missouri, has branded his cattle since he began raising them in 1946. Still, Gammon has not been able to recover the 18 head that were stolen in January. "When I got there the next morning, there was a gate laying down and a few cattle out on the road," said Gammon, who has put heavier chains on his gates and installed an alarm and lighting system in several farm buildings. "I thought I was doing everything right, but I haven't heard from the cattle yet."
Kyle, who said a subpoena had recently been issued in the Brahman theft in Christian County, said local officials were under pressure to find stolen cattle before the animals disappeared inside a slaughterhouse.
"Down here, a sheriff lives or dies by whether he keeps the cattle thefts down," he said. "But there are no serial numbers on hamburgers." |
"But investigators say efforts to track down stolen cattle rarely bear fruit. There is no national identification database for cattle, and thieves often move quickly, shipping stolen animals to auction markets in other states that do not require brand inspection.
"If they don't have a chip or branding or a tattoo, you're pretty much looking for a black cow," said Arnott, who said he had traced stolen cattle as far as Mississippi" maybe you will get the point but i doubt it. |
Your point is? You just brought an article that shows the usefulness of brands! What would you rather steal, a cow with a permanent brand or a cow with an eartag? |
What I brought was an article that proves Missouri who ranks sixth among all states in total cattle numbers with 4.45 million has no brand registry. You want us to think it is only states with little to no cattle that don't have registries but this article proved the sixth largest cattle producing state doesn't and because they don't it is cause serious problems. 
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burnt
Rancher
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 4250
Location: Mid-western Ontario
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mwj
Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 473
Location: central Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
Tam, my cows are IDed, and so are everybody's that I know of. There are 150,000 momma cows in this county alone and all are IDed, as well their calves.
Nobody else has been able to tell me, maybe you can, Tam. How is Canada guaranteeing that BSE infected beef is not entering the food chain? |
How good is that ID if they leave your county or state to be fed or slaughtered. How about if we were to fill a feedlot or slaughter plant with cattle with the same ID from different states? |
If the cattle leave the country, ID would be the responsibility of that country. It's been proven many times that branded cattle can be tracked over state lines and through multiple sales already. The odds of cattle with the same brands comingling in a feedlot or slaughter plant is very small and, even if that would happen, all the animals are not just dumped in one big pen - they are split up and every packer/feeder can easily check what load went into what pen. |
Here you go Sandhusker you are saying that the truckers paperwork on the load of cattle trumps the brand. The brand on the cattle is not enough by itself to ID the cattle in the pen. |
No I didn't. I'm saying that the paperwork confirms and backs up the brand.
What do you think is more likely; Three calves from three different states all with the exact same brand in the same location in the same pen or three calves with missing ear tags in the same pen? |
If you do not have an ID from the brand how can you CONFIRM what you can not prove? By the way ear tags tail tags brisket tags are all called distractions when talking about how good brands are for ID. All those cattle from Mo. can be branded with those home county brands you are so proud of and sent to the same feedlots 
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
| mwj wrote: |
| Sandhusker wrote: |
Tam, my cows are IDed, and so are everybody's that I know of. There are 150,000 momma cows in this county alone and all are IDed, as well their calves.
Nobody else has been able to tell me, maybe you can, Tam. How is Canada guaranteeing that BSE infected beef is not entering the food chain? |
How good is that ID if they leave your county or state to be fed or slaughtered. How about if we were to fill a feedlot or slaughter plant with cattle with the same ID from different states? |
If the cattle leave the country, ID would be the responsibility of that country. It's been proven many times that branded cattle can be tracked over state lines and through multiple sales already. The odds of cattle with the same brands comingling in a feedlot or slaughter plant is very small and, even if that would happen, all the animals are not just dumped in one big pen - they are split up and every packer/feeder can easily check what load went into what pen. |
Here you go Sandhusker you are saying that the truckers paperwork on the load of cattle trumps the brand. The brand on the cattle is not enough by itself to ID the cattle in the pen. |
No I didn't. I'm saying that the paperwork confirms and backs up the brand.
What do you think is more likely; Three calves from three different states all with the exact same brand in the same location in the same pen or three calves with missing ear tags in the same pen? |
If you do not have an ID from the brand how can you CONFIRM what you can not prove? By the way ear tags tail tags brisket tags are all called distractions when talking about how good brands are for ID. All those cattle from Mo. can be branded with those home county brands you are so proud of and sent to the same feedlots |
If you don't have an ID from the brand? The brand IS the ID. If, in the very slim chance, a feeder finds calves with the same brand from different states in his lot, all he has to do to track them is look at the bills of sale and he'll see where they came from. If one bunch came from Nebraska and one from South Dakota, he'll call both brand committees and they'll be able to tell him anything he needs to know in a very short period of time just as they have done countless times already. This is very simple and proven.
I brought up the question of tags because that is the alternative to branding that is being pushed. I was trying to show you how the liklihood of a mixup in a feeder's lot would be much, much more probable in a tag situation vs a brand situation. Branding clearly is the most fool-proof system.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Tam, "What I brought was an article that proves Missouri who ranks sixth among all states in total cattle numbers with 4.45 million has no brand registry. You want us to think it is only states with little to no cattle that don't have registries but this article proved the sixth largest cattle producing state doesn't and because they don't it is cause serious problems."
Sounds like they need to brand then, doesn't it? Haven't I been promoting branding here?
Last edited by Sandhusker on Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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