Weaning Protocols

[cleland]

What does everyone do to replacement heifer and bull calves that you plan to keep at weaning. Just curious as to what vaccines everyone is giving and how you are getting along with them.

[RSL]

We booster with an 8-way and an IBR/BVD/PI3 2 weeks pre-weaning. When we wean we run everything into the sorting alley, sort the cows off, and put the calves back into the paster they just came from. Then they fenceline wean for another few days and cows go back out into the boonies. We have had a 0% pull rate for the last several years using this method. The important point is good vaccination at first processing and then boostering in advance of weaning.

[cleland]

What products are you using? We used bovi shield gold and Ultrabac 7 as well as triview for pinkeye. For the first time in years did not doctor one eye all summer on vaccinated calves.

[RSL]

Ultrabac 7 with somnugen, Pyramid 4 on the calves
Express 5 on the cows.

By the way our vet's program works we are now BI Prime Protection, and BI Express Verified with our calves. I am not sure if we are Pfizer Gold certified because of the Ultrabac or not.

[PureCountry]

We're an all-natural beef program so we don't vaccinate anything. As for weaning we've tried different methods, and we utilize what works best with the weather and forage conditions we have in any given year. My preferred method is to let the cows wean the calves themselves. We calve starting May 20th or so, and by fall here the calves are still small. We've tried weaning at 150 days some years ago, didn't like it one bit. The calves hardly gained a pound all winter - although it was a very severe winter and the pricey feed we bought wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
Anyway, we keep everything over till they're at least 2, so we leave the calves on most winters. The herd is on stockpiled native well into the New Year most years, and then go to swath grazing oats/barley/rye in February. By Late March-early April some cows will be weaning their calves, others won't until just before they calve in May if you leave them on. We generally wait until mid-April at the latest, then pull whatever hasn't weaned itself. The cows go back out on stockpiled native and the calves stay on swaths. By the time the grass is greening in May the cows are shiny, healthy and ready to start all over again.

Please note, there are always cows in this system that run themselves down by fall, by February or maybe later. When we see that happening those cows get their calf pulled. It's a pain to yard a handful of calves, but worth it to keep a cow pregnant and healthy. Once those calves are over their bawling they go in a separate swath grazing field with our yearling bulls or if it's a more mature heifer calf they usually stay with the milk cow.

I'd like to be a lemming and listen to Kit and do fence-line weaning, as i'm sure it works, we just haven't found any need to stop what we're doing. We have a group of cows that do well this way, so why change?

[RSL]

PC - don't vaccinate or don't treat? Just curious.
Does the calf on the cow pull her down much over the winter? We wean early for the reason that we can get a cow fat prior to cold weather without her calf on her. We figure for us that a calf on a cow over the winter costs too much $$$, although we have neighbours that are the exact opposite (their calculator must be in a different denomination )
It is neat to see the differences in what works for people.

[PureCountry]

We do not vaccinate, as in no annual run them through and give them this that and the other thing. We haven't done the calves for 3 years and the cows for 4 years. Haven't used Ivomec or any such product for 9 years.

We do treat for illness and injury if need be.

As for dragging the cow down, we're talking quite different cows from yours to mine. Mine are averaging 1100lbs, and don't milk nearly as heavy as yours. Yours raise bigger calves so that calf will certainly take in more milk if it's available, ultimately taxing the cow harder. We've simply selected this way. The key to the system is making sure the cows are good and fat prior to winter. In some of the recent drought years when the stockpiled tested 6% protein and low energy, we swath grazed in the fall, fed some hay through January, then kicked the girls out in February when we got a warm spell and the snow melted off the prairie wool. That worked out alright because they pounded on the weight when they needed to in the fall before winter really set in. This year we ought to be able to graze some high quality pasture for quite a while.

It's all a matter of planning, monitoring and replanning.

[RSL]

[cleland]

What about on the cows at weaning?

[GM88]

What is the triview vaccine??

[cowsense]

Pure Country........No Vaccinations?? Not even Blackleg? There have been major losses in several of our neighbours herds from blackleg & other clostridial diseases over the past several years. Organic production does allow health vaccination protocols doesn't it? Not trying to pick a fight but IMHO a calf is just too valuable to chance losing when a simple & cheap vaccine is available.

[PureCountry]

Don't worry, you didn't offend me. We're not certified organic. CFIA protocols for "All Natural Beef" state that you can't use any type of vaccination, period. Lots of people label their meats "All Natural" and get away with it. For us, what's on our label is what's in the beef. We can back it all up, and it's not just a matter of doing it so we can be different at the expense of the animals in our care.

I always wanted to try running the cattle this way and seeing what we could do on a genetic level. We certainly saw an improvement in cow health and pregnancy rates when we switched to late May-June calving, due to the cows getting a "rest" for the summer since the bulls didn't go out that year until August 15th. But after a couple years we saw the open rate rise, and some death loss in calves. Calves in December/January storms would be healthy one day, then runny nose the next, then dead. We learnt quick to keep some stuff on hand because it seemed like if they got even a sniffle, they could be gone in 48 hours.

The genetics side of this was fascinating to watch though because the same calves that were dying or getting sick were out of the cows that were thin and open. Poorly functioning endocrine systems, which had been masked for years with our Feed-Them-All-Winter-Long regime. I believe that animals fed high quality forage from high quality soil should have everything they need. There's no reason that system can't work because we can test soil and forage. There's no excuse not to know what's going in their mouths, and nothing stopping us from amending soils or supplementing poor forage with better forage.

As for disease outbreak and such, we have less risk than RSL and most folks I think because we have a small herd grazing a large block of land(by local standards) with no cross roads and only adjacent to 1 other cowherd - my Grandad's red Angus cows. And they're so big the air they breathe is in a different climate than mine so I think they're safe.

Anyway, we're running a little group of cows now that thrive in this system. I most likely won't buy in purebred Galloway genetics anymore because when ever I have - for the most part - the cattle haven't taken well to going on forage alone. THere are a handful of breeders doing what we do, and I may source a bull from one of them eventually. For now, there's no need. Our genetics are improving, as are our forage and soils. If those 3 things are improving, it means selling beef is going to get easier.