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cowman66
Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 16
Location: northern NE sandhills
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 Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:10 pm Post subject: bull sales |
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| what is everyones opinion about the number of bulls a producer sells... does the smaller producer have as good of cattle as the large one , does the little guys bottom end bulls compare to the big guy what do ya all think
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PureCountry
Rancher
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 2266
Location: E./central Alberta, Battle River hills
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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In my experience it's all dependant on the producer. THe guy who truly focuses on his genetics and culls hard has my respect. The guy who brags about how many hundred bulls they're selling doesn't get a second look from me.
The best pens of bulls I see are the little places where someone truly loves every cow they have, can tell you a story about them all, and usually has bulls pre-sold before they're breeding age. If there's a waiting list for his bull calves and they are still on the cow, it's a sign that they may be something worth looking at.
Another big thing for me, is if they come from someone who sells beef, and really makes their living off the cow herd. Anyone who makes good money off their beef won't give a damn about cutting a mediocre bull because they know what he's worth on a plate. And as beef they don't have the hassle of registrations, semen testing, blah,blah,blah, so castrating comes easy at times.
That's my 2 cents worth.
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Angus 62
Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Posts: 122
Location: Colorado
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Big Muddy rancher
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15240
Location: Big Muddy valley
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24330
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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I can't take credit for these as I stole them from another breeder off another site:
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The rules for being an Elite Registered Angus breeder.
1. You are not a real registered breeder unless you have several donor cows.
2. EPD's are more important than anything else.
3. You must feed the maximum amount possible, even if it wrecks a few head.
4. You use politically correct terms like moderate, optimum, and high roughage ration, but you aim for the absolute most weaning weight, the highest gains and the biggest fattest cows that a corn bucket can achieve.
5. All cows are continually referred to as foundation cows.
6. All cows are said to weight 1200# and be moderate framed, even if you can't see over the top of them and they weigh 1900#.
7. After you have arrived as a famous Angus breeder, you start using bulls that you never would have considered before back when you were broke and just trying to create a good set of cows.
8. Once you have sold a cow for $20,000 you are not happy unless your high selling cow brings $50,000.
9. Instead of worrying about creating cattle that achieve the numbers of 1.0 30 20 50, you strive for 900 4000 15 85. 900# weaning weights, $4000 bull sale average, an average of 15 No. 1 eggs per flush and any calf that indexes above 85 is in the bull sale.
10. You quit breeding for longevity, fertility, good udders, disposition or efficiency.
11. All cows that are open in the fall, sell open and ready to flush.
12. Your cows spend less time grazing and more time being fed than ever before.
13. You use lick tubs because they help prevent foot rot. NOT
14. The pohne numbers of the regional manager, sales managers, feed companies, ET centers and your nutritionist are all on speed dial.
15. You would rather be told that your wife is cheating on you, than have someone say your cattle's EPD's are low or that your weaning weights are just average.
16. Most of your catalog footnotes refer to how much money some ancestor in the pedigree brought at a sale.
17. You use words to describe your cattle that have nothing to do with beef production. Words like: astounding, phenomenal, record setting, and my favorite one - unbelievable.
18. Your cattle all eat out of cement feed bunks.
19. You leave out any numbers or measures that are bad or below average.
20. You don't list how many calves a cow has had or what the average weaning ratio is unless it is really good.
21. One you are an elite breeder, you only purchase cattle, semen and embryos from other elite breeders who also dothe previously mentioned things. |
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cowman66
Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 16
Location: northern NE sandhills
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: bull sales |
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| that is a pretty good one old timer.... As a bull breeder of small numbers to sell 30-60 head out of 350 cows i agree with all of you the little guy could save alot of ranchers alot of money on bulls the small producer has to keep only the best as bulls and cut the rest...................
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Justin
Rancher
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 4019
Location: NW South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Oldtimer wrote: |
I can't take credit for these as I stole them from another breeder off another site:
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The rules for being an Elite Registered Angus breeder.
1. You are not a real registered breeder unless you have several donor cows.
2. EPD's are more important than anything else.
3. You must feed the maximum amount possible, even if it wrecks a few head.
4. You use politically correct terms like moderate, optimum, and high roughage ration, but you aim for the absolute most weaning weight, the highest gains and the biggest fattest cows that a corn bucket can achieve.
5. All cows are continually referred to as foundation cows.
6. All cows are said to weight 1200# and be moderate framed, even if you can't see over the top of them and they weigh 1900#.
7. After you have arrived as a famous Angus breeder, you start using bulls that you never would have considered before back when you were broke and just trying to create a good set of cows.
8. Once you have sold a cow for $20,000 you are not happy unless your high selling cow brings $50,000.
9. Instead of worrying about creating cattle that achieve the numbers of 1.0 30 20 50, you strive for 900 4000 15 85. 900# weaning weights, $4000 bull sale average, an average of 15 No. 1 eggs per flush and any calf that indexes above 85 is in the bull sale.
10. You quit breeding for longevity, fertility, good udders, disposition or efficiency.
11. All cows that are open in the fall, sell open and ready to flush.
12. Your cows spend less time grazing and more time being fed than ever before.
13. You use lick tubs because they help prevent foot rot. NOT
14. The pohne numbers of the regional manager, sales managers, feed companies, ET centers and your nutritionist are all on speed dial.
15. You would rather be told that your wife is cheating on you, than have someone say your cattle's EPD's are low or that your weaning weights are just average.
16. Most of your catalog footnotes refer to how much money some ancestor in the pedigree brought at a sale.
17. You use words to describe your cattle that have nothing to do with beef production. Words like: astounding, phenomenal, record setting, and my favorite one - unbelievable.
18. Your cattle all eat out of cement feed bunks.
19. You leave out any numbers or measures that are bad or below average.
20. You don't list how many calves a cow has had or what the average weaning ratio is unless it is really good.
21. One you are an elite breeder, you only purchase cattle, semen and embryos from other elite breeders who also dothe previously mentioned things. |
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Denny
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 4326
Location: Mn usa
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think there are good cattle and poor cattle in all sizes of herds its our job to sift out the chaff.I know some small breeders that have them more as pets and are pamperered worse than a house dog. I've seen some ran totally the opposite. As breeders we should'nt be afraid to use our own bull's on our own cows. We are running one purchased bull and 6 home raised bull we will be keeping 3 to 5 of our calf crop to use next year.
I truly believe there are 2 tools not used enough on registered outfits
#1 a #2 lead pencil if you can't make a profit on a registered cow selling feeder cattle you sure as hell don't deserve to sell bulls into a commercial market.
#2 a sharp knife the most underused tool next to a pencil on registered outfits.
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BRG
Rancher
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 1575
Location: North Western SD
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| I am lucky enough to get all over the country and see both small and large Red Angus registered herds. I have seen excellent groups of cows in both sizes and I have seen poorer cows in both groups as well. If the breeder is serious about breeding quality cattle, then you will find good cows in both groups. Reputation goes a long way if you are selling bulls. If the quality is poor, then that reputation will follow you forever, but if they are good, then hopefully you will get a good reputation. Do your homework and buy bulls from someone who has your kind of cattle and gives you the service you need.
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sic 'em reds
Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 605
Location: WA
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] I can honestly say that I have looked thru the bull offerings of the rich and famous and saw a number of bulls I would cut in a heart beat because I wouldn't be able to sell them. Watch the same bulls bring three grand and more in a hot sale evidently because of the name associated with it. A lot of producers could save considerable money and buy as good or better bulls often right in their own back yard. FWIW
