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curdogs Member

Joined: 21 Sep 2010 Posts: 14 Location: Bell Ranch NM
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm probably not going to make many friends with the following thought, but here goes.
The kind of buyer that doesn't have the common sense to look a horse over well (or take someone to help) and understand the gamble their taking at a sale is usually the same buyer that doesn't have the experience to own any horse. It's this kind of buyer that spoils a horse then wants their money back because they can no longer handle him. Often people are delusional about their abilities and requirements; it's not a case of being lied to as much as taking on more than they can handle. Weekend trail riders generally don't need performance bred horses. Novice riders don't need green broke horses. It's a whole lot harder to undo someone else's handywork than to train a horse from scratch, and I would not want that back!
I can honestly say we never misrepresent horses and never would do. It often sounds like i'm trying to talk someone out of buying a horse because I will tell them everything. If someone is stupid enough to buy a horse that they have been told is unsuitable it is their own fault, but I won't do that to one of my horses. In the long run the horse loses out when it is matched with the wrong person and ends up a problem horse.
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Chimenea Member

Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Posts: 79 Location: Tucson, AZ
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| flyingS wrote: |
| Let me rephrase "lifetime" to solid guarantees. Does that help anyone get by the terminalogy. I was trying to drive home the point of a solid well represented sale that would cater to customer satisfaction. If you want I will go in and edit the post so that you don't even see the word lifetime if it will make you feel better. Some of you people can sure get narrow minded, broaden your minds a little. Give a person an idea or two instead of putting them on the choping block. Dog gone are you all always so negative. |
FlyingS, really. It's not about being narrow minded, negative, or even trying to discourage what you're doing. Quite the contrary. You brought up a very valid unmet market need, and your desire to try to address it. Most of us have agreed with your assessment of the unmet market need, and feel that at some level, there may be a profit opportunity involved in meeting that need. Shoot, resolving unmet market needs is the only way to make money in a market economy, and I don't think anyone here has argued against your analysis that a) there are dishonest horse sellers out there, b) those dishonest sellers -- by reflecting negatively on the entire industry -- tend to influence overall industry prices downward, and c) that since a problem represents an opportunity, finding a way to resolve the downward price pressure occasioned by dishonest sellers could potentially mean profit for anyone participating in the implementation of that solution.
But, some of us with experiences that are different than yours also brought up where others (and sometimes we, ourselves) have failed in that endeavor, outlining where some of the speed bumps might be so you don't make the same mistakes others have made; this is akin to showing you what a potential path forward might be for you to be successful at what you're proposing, by showing you what the hidden problems you will need to resolve might be. You asked for comments, and we've shared them willingly and happily with you so that you don't have to pay for the privilege of making some of the mistakes that fellow forum members have made or have seen made. We've shown you what to avoid and where not to step, thereby helping you decipher a path upon which you might want to travel.
Why get so touchy about people's generosity with their experience, when you asked us to share that experience in the first place?
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Soapweed Rancher

Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 12096 Location: northern Nebraska Sandhills
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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About ten years ago, I saw an ad in a livestock publication. It read something like: "Wanted: Big stout horse to carry a 200 plus pound rider day in and day out," and the buyer was from all places, Indiana. Well, it just so happened I had a horse that would darn sure meet those qualifications, and another that would do nearly as well if the potential customer didn't like the first horse. I contacted the man, and he explained that he owned a full section (640 acres) of old reclaimed coal mining country, and that he needed a big stout ground covering horse on which to patrol these vast holdings. I told him what I had, and he was very interested in journeying to Nebraska to see the horses. Knowing that if he bought either one, a current negative Coggins test would be needed, I took it upon myself to have a vet get blood from both horses.
The buyer showed up in a few days, traveling with a married couple in a pickup pulling a big strung-out older horse trailer. Looks were deceiving because most of the trailer was set up with living facilities with only room to haul two horses at the very back.
Not to be confused with "Indian," the "Indianaian" dismounted from the passenger side of the pickup and introduced himself. Just by his milquetoast handshake, I immediately wondered if he would be cowboy enough to ride either of my Coggins tested horses. He sure 'nuff weighed the 200 plus pounds, but was about as wide as he was tall. As both of the horses stood sixteen hands, it would be a problem for the man to just get on. My horses weren't broncs, but they required the skill of an experienced rider. I figured if either one was going to be ridden "day in and day out" the miles alone would keep them rideable. This man procured his saddle from the trailer and caution flags were starting to flap in the wind. The saddle was a "dude saddle" covered with dust, and the cinches were dry-rotted as it hadn't been used in years.
Adhering to the rule that "you can't always judge a book by its cover," I decided to let the would-be distance rider saddle one of my horses. With my assistance the saddle was put on his rat-chewed pad, and cinched to the horse, but not too tightly for fear the latigo would break. Somehow he got aboard, and I quickly mounted the other horse, in case he had an instant runaway. We walked our horses cautiously to the end of a tree grove and back to the trailer. We then switched saddles so he could try the other horse.
My conscience would just not allow me to sell either of these big tough traveling horses to this gentleman. He just was not horseman enough to ride them without a strong likelihood of getting hurt in the process. On the other hand, here was a person who had traveled all the way from Indiana to Nebraska with money burning a hole in his pocket to buy a horse, and I sure hated to see him leave my ranch without one. Just a week before, I had bought a short gentle horse. We saddled this horse, and I knew there was a perfect match. He left quite happy, and I was equally as happy when he paid me with cold hard cash. The only slight wrinkle in the process was having to make arrangements to get the horse Coggins tested later that afternoon when they passed through Valentine. A rush order had to be put on the results before they left the Nebraska state line the following day. I conversed with the man by phone a month later and he liked the horse, though I am quite sure he was not riding it "day in and day out." All is well that ends well. 
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flyingS Member

Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 472 Location: Northern Sandhills Just East of Soapweed
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Chimenea, I do appreciate the comments. There is a bit of information I have not shared. I am not new to any of these experiences. I have been around the horse trading business my entire life. I know what kind of buyers are out there as well as sellers. I've ridden darn near more junk trader horses than good ones. I've seen a lot of rotten tricks and bought a horse or two that sure wasn't what someone told me it was. I know a lot of people that are in the horse business, the ones that are making a good living at it do not have to offer a guarantee, their customers know that there word is good. I apologize if I insulted anyone. People will always look for reasons why something will not work, very seldom are they willing to go out on a limb to make them work. Most people will not have anything to do with something that is out of the norm until it is succesful. Once it is succesful, everyone wants in. There has been very few post that have not had a negative comment or reason as to why a sale of this order could not be succesful. I knew I would open a can of worms when I made this post. Thanks for the feedback.
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Faster horses Rancher

Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 19605 Location: SE MT
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Soapweed Rancher

Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 12096 Location: northern Nebraska Sandhills
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