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the_jersey_lilly_2000
Rancher
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 11266
Location: South East Texas
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 Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Faster horses wrote: |
I have to say, I like a horse with a droopy bottom lip like this
colt has. That shows
he's probably pretty low key. Watch out for horses that have a tight
bottom lip or swallow their bottom lip. They are pretty sensitive and
tend to be more high-strung. |
Hmmm interesting....Toilet Paper is a tight lipped lil sucker. But I wouldn't concider him sensitive or high strung.
Now Cash on the other hand...has a droopy bottom lip....and he can get high strung.
Maybe we just have weird creatures LOL
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Faster horses
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 19605
Location: SE MT
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Well, there are exceptions to everything. I was talking in general.
It's a pretty well-know philosophy among horse people
Kinda like watching the cowlicks on a horses head.(The higher
the swirl, the hotter the horse, the lower the swirl the quieter
the horse, and in the middle was what was most desireable. From there,
two cowlicks mean the horse is complicated to figure out, but
when you get him figured out, you generally have a good one.)
After learning about this, a good friend
who worked for Rock Creek Cattle Co. in SW Montana checked
the swirls (cowlicks) on all the ranch horses and the meaning held
true in every case except one.
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Jassy
Rancher
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 2733
Location: S. of Valentine, NE
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Faster horses wrote: |
That's a different cross for sure. I would hope what loomixguy said
would be right. The Skipper W's are pretty, but I never knew any of
them to be much for using horses. And they can get mad easy. |
Yes FH yur absolutly right...My father in law had skipper W studs for years and though they sold well, when we brought several up to the ranch they never amounted to a good solid horse for us. I'll give them that they are very pretty, we had the palamino's, and a pretty good dispostion around the barn, but they never turned out like we had hoped...
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Frisco
Member
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 136
Location: God's country aka NW SD
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Skipper W bred horses |
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| What are those kind of horses?
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Faster horses
Rancher
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 19605
Location: SE MT
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| AQHA (Quarter horses)
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Chimenea
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 79
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Skipper W bred horses |
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| Frisco wrote: |
| What are those kind of horses? |
A bloodline or "family" of Quarter Horses, Paints, and Appaloosas, developed through line breeding by a fellow named Hank Wiescamp at his ranch in Alamosa, Colorado; the bloodline was developed from the 1930s to 1990s from line breeding using seed stock from a handful of horses and bloodlines, including Old Fred (a palomino foundation Quarter Horse stallion with a lot of white markings), and horses from the breeding programs of Warren Shoemaker and Coke Roberds, among others.
Hank Wiescamp was inducted into the Hall of Fame for the AQHA in 1994, and is also in the Hall of Fame for the APHA, and the PHBA (Palomino Horse Breeders Association). He was a rather opinionated and cantankerous fellow, from what I understand, and got into more than one fight with the AQHA in his day. Many of the horses he bred, particularly in the heyday of his breeding program in the 1950's -1980's, carried the word "Skip" or "Skipper" in their registered names. So the bloodline he developed is usually referred to as "Skipper" or "Skipper W".
Skipper W (1945-1963) was Hank Wiescamp's best-known stallion, though he was not Hank Wiescamp favorite stallion or the one he considered to be his most influential. Don't get me wrong, he was a pretty good horse that rode well, would probably have been well known as a calf roping horse if he hadn't been taken to the breeding operation and out of competition at such a young age, and stood grand at the Denver National Show (his only time shown at halter); he was the best stallion that Hank Wiescamp had at the time, and he was a pretty good breeding horse, siring show horses and breeding stock that produced really well. But Hank Wiescamp himself was quoted on numerous occasions indicating that, though Skipper W was a really good horse, he wasn't the best he ever produced. But Skipper W was the one that was best known, and the best he had at the time when he started breeding a lot of mares after the Remount days. Anyway, Skipper W will be inducted into the AQHA Hall of Fame in 2011.
Frank Holmes, who literally wrote a book about Hank Wiescamp and his horses, wrote this about him (not in the book...):
| Quote: |
| "Hank Wiescamp remains as one of the most controversial horse breeders of all time. He is loved and hated by generations of horsemen and women who never even met him. As for myself, he remains by far the most difficult human I have ever interviewed and/or worked with on a book project AND one of the most intriguing. " |
The bloodline that most people refer to as Skipper W or Skipper horses, though, has developed some pretty strong devotees, some of whom refer to Hank Wiescamp with almost-eerie reverence, particularly since Hank Wiescamp's death a little over ten years ago. There are "Skipper W" breeders around that almost fanatically devote their breeding programs to perpetuating the bloodline.
The horses themselves -- at least the ones that comprised the Wiescamp family's breeding program at the time of Hank Wiescamp's death in 1997 -- were fairly "typey" due to the intense line breeding, with pretty consistent build and temperament. They were mid-size quarter horses (14.2 to 15.2, generally) with medium builds, generally pretty heads and necks, average or above average athleticism, and were generally on the intelligent side of average (which, as is the case with Arabian horses, without the right management can very quickly lead to "ornery", and from there to "broncy").
Where a lot of people have run into trouble in breeding and selling these horses, has been in not being nearly as good at being breeders as Hank Wiescamp was. When you're an exceptional horse breeder (which requires not only being a heck of a horseman, but also a certain degree of ruthlessness when culling), you can make line breeding work well for you; witness not only Hank Wiescamp's breeding program, but programs like Howard Pitzer's and Duane Walker's. When you're not an exceptional breeder, line breeding can quickly lead to intensely average or below average horses, with strongly heritable conformation or temperament weaknesses (or defects...) being perpetuated by the line breeding. This has been the case with a lot of Skipper W breeding programs that started with stock (some of it great, some of it culls) from Hank Wiescamp's horses. As a result, there are some pretty good Skippers out there; but there are also some pretty bad ones.
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VB RANCH
Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 434
Location: leader minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| As a result, there are some pretty good Skippers out there; but there are also some pretty bad ones. Should go without sayin, But i'm gonna say it any way. AS WITH ALL BLOOD LINES
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Chimenea
Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 79
Location: Tucson, AZ
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loomixguy
Rancher
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2280
Location: The Dark Side
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skeeter
Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 24
Location: ND
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I finally got a chance to see the horse in person and not just pictures. I'm not gonna get him. I found and Two Eyed Jack x Hancock x Peppy San Badger cross.
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flatlander
Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 35
Location: North Central Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Little late with this but maybe?
I had a intensive linebred skipper w mare that was probably the best using horse I've ever crawled on! That covers a lot of horses folks. There just wasn't anything connected with a cow that she couldn't do. Cut, sort, rope,drag all day and then heel that night. Lots of buckles in the case from her.
But one of the first things I found out about them was that you COULDN'T make them do something. And for sure, don't make a mistake when you train them because they don't forget. She would toss a female rider just for kicks just because and did it to some pretty good barrel racers and was a coon stomping killing machine if she found one.
I have a 3 yr old filly out of her but she is way past me being able to do anything anymore. If anyone out there knows of a good person looking for an inexpensive started mare,point them my way.
So here's the deal-be smarter than the horse and you'll get along fine with him!
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