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Tommy
Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 755
Location: South East Kansas
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 Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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mj...The most obvious is that they create more bookwork, probably even attorney fees, to justify every sale, or class of cattle.
Those rules were created with some intent, according to J. Dudley Butlers' coments indicating they would be a litigation attorneys dream.
MJ, J. Dudley Butler’s 2009 speech refers to the Stockyards and Packers act currently in effect, not the GIPSA ruling.
“Looking at it from the standpoint of sections 202 A and B, when you have terms like unfair, unreasonable, or undue prejudice, that’s a lawyer’s dream, a plaintiff lawyer’s dream. We can get in front of a jury on that without getting thrown out on what we call summary judgment, because that’s a jury question.” Mr. Butlers 2009 speech
Section 202. Unlawful practices enumerated.3
It shall be unlawful for any packer or swine contractor with respect to livestock, meats,
meat food products, or livestock products in unmanufactured form, or for any live poultry
dealer with respect to live poultry, to:
(a) Engage in or use any unfair, unjustly discriminatory, or deceptive practice or
device; or
(b) Make or give any undue or unreasonable preference or advantage to any
particular person or locality in any respect, or subject any particular person or
locality to any undue or unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage in any respect;
MJ, this is the part of the current PSA that J. Dudley Butler was referring to. You and your counterparts at the NCBA are villifying this man, like Senator Pat Roberts did in the hearing on the GIPSA rule.
Maybe you should read the entire statement Butler made before you comment again.
If you need help locating it I can be of assistance.
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~SH~
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: South Western SD
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Tex: "SH, the comment I made about McDonnell, was that he was actually spending his time talking about meat packer's talking points." |
No, what Mike posted was a comment by McDonnell which was a packer blamer talking point and you called him an idiot for saying the same thing you have been saying.
You commented before you read it making you the idiot, not McDonnell.
You just keep dancing and diverting like the deceptive individual you are.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "Now this may be necessary, but at some point people have to stop answering people like you and ignore them." |
I'm sure you'd find it a lot more comfortable to ignore someone that points out the gaping holes in your arguments. It's no mystery why those who believe as you do can't win a court case.
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| Tex: "The meat packers totally made up the argument that the new GIPSA rules would impinge on premiums for premium products." |
One only has to read the GIPSA rules to know that lawyers will have a heyday defining "unfair" and "discrimatory" for any differences in price paid to fat cattle when those markets can fluctuate on a moments notice. The solution to those who have concerns with the prices a packer is willing to pay, sell to another packer or open your own packing company and make those "HUGE PROFITS" that are supposedly there for yourselves.
But not you Tex, for you the solution is "PLEASE GOVERNMENT, SAVE THE FEEDING INDUSTRY FROM ITSELF WITH GOVERNMENT BASED FAT CATTLE PRICING"
| Quote: |
| Tex: "It was a total lie put out by meat packers to scare producers into thinking that is what the rules said." |
It wasn't a lie. Anyone can read the rules and know that it will be subject to intent and interpretation as any law is.
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| Tex: "I don't think McDonnell or others need to tiptoe around the fact that this is a response to meat packer's strategy of controlling the argument". |
You still don't get it do you?
Then you must be tiptoeing around the fact that this is a response to meat packer's strategy of controlling the market because you said the same thing.
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| Tex: "I think instead, we need to ask, what kind of premiums have meat packers been giving and have they met the test of being real or are they used to unfairly manipulate pay for supplies and hence their suppliers?" |
No, I think instead of saving the feeding industry from itself you need to let the feeders sell fat cattle in the manner in which they choose without government intervention.
What we need to ask ourselves is this, who can do a better job of creating a fair market, the government or the free enterprise system? The answer is obviously not government.
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| Tex: "I think what is actually sold in the store can determine that--- for example, Certified Angus Meat on a store label means that there can be a premium paid (for anyone who fits in the Angus Meat category)." |
You don't even know the specs for CAB do you? You're just talking to impress yourself.
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| Tex: "Next time, please read the post in its entirety, and maybe you would understand what I was saying about McDonnell and his quote." |
Anyone can see what Mike posted and your response. Your REINTERPRETATION won't hold water.
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| Tex: "Meat packers don't need to write the rules they have to follow and they don't need to go around spreading lies that try to get people like mrj scared into supporting them on a made up threat or lie." |
The meat packing industry doesn't need packer blamers like you who don't even sell fat cattle dictating to the feeding industry how they can and can't sell fat cattle. Nobody is scared into anything. Anyone can read the rules and know that this will be as big a waste as "M"COOL was.
| Quote: |
| Tex (AT THE END OF THE POST): "I agreed with McDonnell on how he interpreted the GIPSA rules but resent the fact that he had to even go there because of meat packer pushed propaganda." |
| Quote: |
| Tex (AT THE BEGINNING OF THE POST): "SH, the comment I made about McDonnell, was that he was actually spending his time talking about meat packer's talking points." |
Are you done chasing your tail?
~SH~
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Tex
Rancher
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 2172
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| ~SH~ wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Tex: "SH, the comment I made about McDonnell, was that he was actually spending his time talking about meat packer's talking points." |
No, what Mike posted was a comment by McDonnell which was a packer blamer talking point and you called him an idiot for saying the same thing you have been saying.
You commented before you read it making you the idiot, not McDonnell.
You just keep dancing and diverting like the deceptive individual you are.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "Now this may be necessary, but at some point people have to stop answering people like you and ignore them." |
I'm sure you'd find it a lot more comfortable to ignore someone that points out the gaping holes in your arguments. It's no mystery why those who believe as you do can't win a court case.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "The meat packers totally made up the argument that the new GIPSA rules would impinge on premiums for premium products." |
One only has to read the GIPSA rules to know that lawyers will have a heyday defining "unfair" and "discrimatory" for any differences in price paid to fat cattle when those markets can fluctuate on a moments notice. The solution to those who have concerns with the prices a packer is willing to pay, sell to another packer or open your own packing company and make those "HUGE PROFITS" that are supposedly there for yourselves.
But not you Tex, for you the solution is "PLEASE GOVERNMENT, SAVE THE FEEDING INDUSTRY FROM ITSELF WITH GOVERNMENT BASED FAT CATTLE PRICING"
| Quote: |
| Tex: "It was a total lie put out by meat packers to scare producers into thinking that is what the rules said." |
It wasn't a lie. Anyone can read the rules and know that it will be subject to intent and interpretation as any law is.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "I don't think McDonnell or others need to tiptoe around the fact that this is a response to meat packer's strategy of controlling the argument". |
You still don't get it do you?
Then you must be tiptoeing around the fact that this is a response to meat packer's strategy of controlling the market because you said the same thing.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "I think instead, we need to ask, what kind of premiums have meat packers been giving and have they met the test of being real or are they used to unfairly manipulate pay for supplies and hence their suppliers?" |
No, I think instead of saving the feeding industry from itself you need to let the feeders sell fat cattle in the manner in which they choose without government intervention.
What we need to ask ourselves is this, who can do a better job of creating a fair market, the government or the free enterprise system? The answer is obviously not government.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "I think what is actually sold in the store can determine that--- for example, Certified Angus Meat on a store label means that there can be a premium paid (for anyone who fits in the Angus Meat category)." |
You don't even know the specs for CAB do you? You're just talking to impress yourself.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "Next time, please read the post in its entirety, and maybe you would understand what I was saying about McDonnell and his quote." |
Anyone can see what Mike posted and your response. Your REINTERPRETATION won't hold water.
| Quote: |
| Tex: "Meat packers don't need to write the rules they have to follow and they don't need to go around spreading lies that try to get people like mrj scared into supporting them on a made up threat or lie." |
The meat packing industry doesn't need packer blamers like you who don't even sell fat cattle dictating to the feeding industry how they can and can't sell fat cattle. Nobody is scared into anything. Anyone can read the rules and know that this will be as big a waste as "M"COOL was.
| Quote: |
| Tex (AT THE END OF THE POST): "I agreed with McDonnell on how he interpreted the GIPSA rules but resent the fact that he had to even go there because of meat packer pushed propaganda." |
| Quote: |
| Tex (AT THE BEGINNING OF THE POST): "SH, the comment I made about McDonnell, was that he was actually spending his time talking about meat packer's talking points." |
Are you done chasing your tail?
~SH~ |
blah, blah, blah, sh.
If you don't get it when it is explained to you, you never will.
The meat packers are running the argument and have shifted it off of their frauds where they got caught red handed and into the other mess of not paying premiums for premium products.
I think we are all idiots for allowing them to control the argument but I guess that is what PR firms and big money can buy you. Maybe this was part of the bought off media only printing selected quotes from McDonnell they wanted to print but the discussion has been controlled by meat packers and their PR firms and hire whores in D.C.
Mike was bringing up a point about quantity discounts when he quoted McDonnell and I would like to hear a little more about his concern there.
Tex
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