Hancock Horses question

[MoodyMare]

HUhu, I am new (really *g) and I really would like to know more about Hancock horses. I have heard different stories, some people say: oh typical hancock, others never heard of them before saying I am crazy or make my horse look *different* which is not true at all.
I have never met someone else with my horses ancestry nor have I talked to someone who has/had Hancock horses, but still I hear interesting things about them.
This question comes because of my horse beeing the class clown of the barn, he does not respect dominance of person or horse, nor does he do on button klick what you want from him. I have to work in a total different way with him what I have never learned before growing up with Warmbloods overseas

He is the sweetest horse ever, if you know how to handle him. He learns superfast, if he is not in his donkey modus. He comes up every day with new things to avoid certain things (most recent was: i will not go to the grooming area.. and he is VERY big with his view of NOT going there, watch your head since his bullseye whiskey is very good and his hind feet kick higher and more accurate as a missle)
I have no problems whatsoever with this horse, and we get along just fine.

I am sick of hearing from peopel who have never met or worked with him that i am to weak or not dominant enough with him, again trying to explain that if you want to dominant him (wich I think is a typicall english riders/european riders term of word) that he would rather try to avoid you with all his might.
Can anyone enlighten me on this handock myth or truths?
Thanks,
Moody

[Faster horses]

First, I would imagine the Hancock bloodlines in your horse are not up close.

Hancock horses are noted for being tough cow, ranch and rope horses. They are good-boned, good footed and very durable. But they also are noted for being hard to break and bad as I hate to say it, not very smart. They can also be bad-headed. Just about everyone has heard about the Hancock head.

However, it would be interesting to see how close up the Hancock is in your horse. Many times what gets blamed on bloodlines should be blamed on environment and/or handling.

We have had some good Hancock horses and some bad ones. I imagine everyone has come across both. They seem to take a lot of riding to get real broke and there isn't much of that anymore. If you can get them broke, you are darn sure horseback.

Don't know if this helped you or not, but that is how Hancock horses are perceived in the West.

[MoodyMare]

is it ok to post some pictures?
On his podium:

While working:

As a 3 1/2 year old:

[/img]

[MoodyMare]

Thank you for your answer.
His sire is Catch BillyHancock, When you said hard to break and not smart hm.. he learns by, what I call, the AHA effect. He will try something and if it goes into his AHA effect, good or bad.. it is in him and very hard to get out only by outsmarten him and beeing faster than him he learns.
Is this a trademark? as soon as it is in him it sticks forever.

When riding him he will find moments where i am unaware and find his own entertainment, as you see i do not ride western *g It takes a lot of the rider to keep him busy and steady in what he is doing or learning, his switches from horse to donkey are very close together, as I call it
He has a huge mind of his own and he is very sure of himself and his opinion of the world, strenght does not impressive nor "getting a smack"
With him you can impress him by beeing smarter and faster in your reactions than him.
Is this a hancock trademark? As you see I am very dumb when it comes to QH or any american breed.
I grew up with Pilot sons and their trademarks, so I am open to learn anything i can about Hancocks.

[Faster horses]

How old is he? He just sounds like a lot of young horses that need time to mature. Plus the personality sticks out all over on him. Which is good, IMO.

He certainly is attractive and looks intelligent. He looks really good, matter of fact! He is good legged, good-footed and looks durable and is the color of many Hancocks, minus the white. He has a nice head, which is a plus.

Post the whole pedigree, please. Would be interesting to see how Hancock came to be on a Paint horses papers. Hancocks are usually bay or brown with very little white. Then there are Roan Hancocks, roan, but still very little white on them.

This has been interesting.

And yeah, it is fine to post pictures here. We all love pictures!

[rancher]

I haven't had a bad one yet, well maybe one, they are not that athletic in the arena, exceptions to the rule, but you can ride them all day long. It depends on what side the Hancock it comes from I feel. If you have a nasty Hancock mare it will show up on the colt most of the time, if you have a nasty Hancock stud I don't believe it shows up as much. Kind of like the statement, "If momma ain't happy, ain't happy no one is" A colt learns a lot from their momma. If Hancock is off the papers a ways I don't think it is worth discussing. Your horse shows the bone and the head, esp. front view. What does he have in him that makes him hold his tail like that? Must be the saddle.

[MoodyMare]

Great, i love showing pictures of him, I am very proud of him, since he is the first horse in my live what truly makes me happy in all ways, handling, riding and just beeing his carrotmachine on two legs

He is 5 years old now, I got him with barely 3 1/2 he was slowly broke to ride with a wonderful lady and has never experienced bad treatment, exept maybe no carrot..
As you might guessed too I am not very familiar with QH/Paint breeding.
His sire Catch BillyHancock, dam Jimbo Kitten. www.allbreedpedigree.com/sd+gunslinger is his pedigree

about mid summer first started spanish walk under saddle...


his favorite: barreljumping (note; not racing *g)



Rancher, what do you mean by holding his tail like that?
We, the dressage riders *g, want the horses tail to be losely carried and swinging from side to side, this means the horse is going *over the back* using his belly muscles to lift his back up and stepping over the back from behind into the riders hands/hand aids.

[rancher]

Well maybe I will take up dressage, my horses must not pull their bellies up except at the grain pan. Looks like you are happy with your horse and that is all that counts no matter what is on or off his papers. Keep the pictures coming. Looks like the two of you have bonded and that is what you are after.

[MoodyMare]

Rancher, why not try dressage?
Let me tell you, people did the meanest things to me after beeing in the US for a couple of weeks *g
Someone put me on a pleasure horse, and told me: ride..
Well the walk was fine, even though the saddle was not very comfi for me coming from our small buttcrack saddles Also those long reins where too long for my taste, also using my constat contact to the horse, leg aids and seat aids, the horse under me did not feel very comfi with me having my legs on him all the time *g

Well the trot, what I would call a sleeping funeral trot, was, I guess, to fast cause the owner always yelled: TOO fast TOO fast, slower slower!
I got told this was called a jog, even though I thougt, well I jog faster than this horse in a trot *g
Than someone decided to put the german girl on a barrel racer.. the brave germans we are or said to be ,I said of course, let me try Watching it beeing done, I noticed it looked very close to a canter piroutte, so it cant be that hard right? *ggg well I was proven wrong, specially after someone told me I have to SSSSS when running... so I SSS..t and the horse tock off with me in a dead speed run incl bucks
After that, I will never trust a western rider again *g

[Oldtimer]

I see where Tommy Hancock is about 6 or 7 generations back- Does have Hancock several times back in his pedigree.....Some good old foundation sires back in his past- Peter McCue, King, Chubby, Oklahoma Star----But definitely a lot of lines that go back to Hancock......

Some of his pedigree has been having to be registered as a paint since back in the 50's it looks like.....

[rancher]

[quote="MoodyMare"]Rancher, why not try dressage?
Let me tell you, people did the meanest things to me after beeing in the US for a couple of weeks *g
Someone put me on a pleasure horse, and told me: ride..
Well the walk was fine, even though the saddle was not very comfi for me coming from our small buttcrack saddles Also those long reins where too long for my taste, also using my constat contact to the horse, leg aids and seat aids, the horse under me did not feel very comfi with me having my legs on him all the time *g

Well the trot, what I would call a sleeping funeral trot, was, I guess, to fast cause the owner always yelled: TOO fast TOO fast, slower slower!
I got told this was called a jog, even though I thougt, well I jog faster than this horse in a trot *g
Than someone decided to put the german girl on a barrel racer.. the brave germans we are or said to be ,I said of course, let me try Watching it beeing done, I noticed it looked very close to a canter piroutte, so it cant be that hard right? *ggg well I was proven wrong, specially after someone told me I have to SSSSS when running... so I SSS..t and the horse tock off with me in a dead speed run incl bucks
After that, I will never trust a western rider again *g

So how did you end up here? and you came from Germany? Welcome aboard. Western pleasure is a joke for ranch people. So don't judge us all by the horse show people. I don't think the people meant to be mean, you just ride different than they do. I just don't think dressage would work on the ranch, but do think you can learn from all. I believe in leg pressure and all that is natural to a horse. Why not work with them and not against them. The barrel horse trainer used verbal cues as in sssss, lots use leg and verbal cues in barrel horses. Just as it would be hard to put someone that doesn't ride the same as you on your horse and expect him to react the same, he won't . Thanks for the pictures.

[TimH]

Moody Mare,

My wife knows a lot about dressage and hunter/jumpers, etc. She says your horse is beautiful!!
I'm not much of a horseman,myself, but welcome to Rancher's.net.