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Bull Burger
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject: HOME TOWNED Reply with quote

HOME TOWNED



Canadian beef producers were not expecting the ruling by Judge Richard Cebull on Thursday, when he issued an injunction stopping the movement of cattle from Canada into the United States scheduled for March 7. A closer look might have revealed a close relationship between the Federal Judge and R-Calf, the activist cattleman's group. It was no coincidence R-Calf brought the lawsuit in Billings Montana, where the organization is based and also the home of the Federal Judge.



Judge Cebull heard the legal arguments Thursday morning but indications are he had already made up his mind long before the legal arguments were presented. The ruling was issued before the arguments were completed and the 28 page opinion by the Judge was available in a matter of a couple hours after the hearing.



The ruling and the delay in the border opening, places the United States logically in an awkward and contradictory position with Japan. The assumption of a remaining food safety issue with Canadian beef brought into the U.S., also would mean there remains a food safety issue for the Japanese importing American beef. Scientist and food safety experts can find no support for these assumptions as set for in the R-Calf arguments.



USDA was silent at week's end about its plans for continuing this battle. The logical move would be an emergency motion to the Federal appellate court to overrule Judge Cebull's decision. Experts believe the Judge's 28 page opinion is flawed and vulnerable to a reversal by the appellate court.



USDA might be sensitive to political pressures emerging from Congress supporting the ruling and turning increasingly hostile towards the Japanese and their ban on American beef. Several members of Congress openly linked the Canadian border opening to the Japanese border opening.



The billions of dollars of damage and havoc wreaked on the beef industry by an issue with very little substance, is unparalleled in modern times. No human in this country has suffered ill from BSE. No science indicates a looming danger to consumers of beef from countries where BSE exists with appropriate safety controls. Even beef or muscle from a BSE animal is not thought to transmit the disease to person. The time has long past to drop mad cow from the emotional and political arena and resume normalized beef production.


http://www.agcenter.com/cattlereport.asp


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Sandhusker
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: HOME TOWNED Reply with quote

Bull Burger wrote:
HOME TOWNED



"Canadian beef producers were not expecting the ruling by Judge Richard Cebull on Thursday, when he issued an injunction stopping the movement of cattle from Canada into the United States scheduled for March 7. A closer look might have revealed a close relationship between the Federal Judge and R-Calf, the activist cattleman's group. It was no coincidence R-Calf brought the lawsuit in Billings Montana, where the organization is based and also the home of the Federal Judge."

Does the author of this article buy their groceries where they live or do they drive to a different state? Why does he expect R-CALF to go to a different city or state to file a lawsuit when they can "walk across the street" and get it done? Of course it is "no coincidence" the judge lives in the same city as the court! Laughing This opening paragraph throws a red flag to the rest of the article.



"Judge Cebull heard the legal arguments Thursday morning but indications are he had already made up his mind long before the legal arguments were presented. The ruling was issued before the arguments were completed and the 28 page opinion by the Judge was available in a matter of a couple hours after the hearing."

Judge Cebull has heard it all before recently. This hearing was just more of what he had heard the last time between R-CALF and USDA.

"The ruling and the delay in the border opening, places the United States logically in an awkward and contradictory position with Japan. The assumption of a remaining food safety issue with Canadian beef brought into the U.S., also would mean there remains a food safety issue for the Japanese importing American beef. Scientist and food safety experts can find no support for these assumptions as set for in the R-Calf arguments."

Depends on which scientist and food safety expert you talk to.

USDA was silent at week's end about its plans for continuing this battle. The logical move would be an emergency motion to the Federal appellate court to overrule Judge Cebull's decision. Experts believe the Judge's 28 page opinion is flawed and vulnerable to a reversal by the appellate court.

I guess the USDA will do it if they have any faith in these "experts".

USDA might be sensitive to political pressures emerging from Congress supporting the ruling and turning increasingly hostile towards the Japanese and their ban on American beef. Several members of Congress openly linked the Canadian border opening to the Japanese border opening.

"The billions of dollars of damage and havoc wreaked on the beef industry by an issue with very little substance, is unparalleled in modern times. No human in this country has suffered ill from BSE. No science indicates a looming danger to consumers of beef from countries where BSE exists with appropriate safety controls. Even beef or muscle from a BSE animal is not thought to transmit the disease to person. The time has long past to drop mad cow from the emotional and political arena and resume normalized beef production."

There's a whole lot about BSE that we simply don't know. BSE doesn't cause your toenails to discolor, it kills people.

http://www.agcenter.com/cattlereport.asp


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don
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think usda will be very sensitive to producer sentiment and just leave the injunction to go to trial sometime in the next year or so.


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Tam
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Judge Cebull has heard it all before recently. This hearing was just more of what he had heard the last time between R-CALF and USDA.


Then is this why he wouldn't except any friend of the court briefs. As they may have just prove he had written his comments even before he heard the three hours of arguments. Why, did he waste the courts time if he had heard it all before why didn't he just say stay home these are my comments on this case. Or would that have looked like he had already made up his mind, more so than having a 28 page comment ready for release within hours of hearing the case. I think we should go to Billings this spring and see if we can get a picture of Cebull playing a friendly round of golf with Bullard and McDonnell.

Quote:
There's a whole lot about BSE that we simply don't know. BSE doesn't cause your toenails to discolor, it kills people.


Maybe this is the same reason that Japan is not willing to import from the US. Is this reason stopping the same Senators that passed the bill the other day about Canadian imports from writing letter to threaten Japan with Trade sanctions if they don't lift their ban on the US. Remember Japan has lost a citizen to the human form of Mad Cow. It is a clear case of do as the US says not as they do right Sandhusker. Why don't you and the US beef industry tell the Senate to lead by example instead of telling them to threaten Japan into submission.


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Oldtimer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tam wrote:
Quote:
Judge Cebull has heard it all before recently. This hearing was just more of what he had heard the last time between R-CALF and USDA.


Then is this why he wouldn't except any friend of the court briefs. As they may have just prove he had written his comments even before he heard the three hours of arguments. Why, did he waste the courts time if he had heard it all before why didn't he just say stay home these are my comments on this case. Or would that have looked like he had already made up his mind, more so than having a 28 page comment ready for release within hours of hearing the case. I think we should go to Billings this spring and see if we can get a picture of Cebull playing a friendly round of golf with Bullard and McDonnell.

Quote:
There's a whole lot about BSE that we simply don't know. BSE doesn't cause your toenails to discolor, it kills people.


Maybe this is the same reason that Japan is not willing to import from the US. Is this reason stopping the same Senators that passed the bill the other day about Canadian imports from writing letter to threaten Japan with Trade sanctions if they don't lift their ban on the US. Remember Japan has lost a citizen to the human form of Mad Cow. It is a clear case of do as the US says not as they do right Sandhusker. Why don't you and the US beef industry tell the Senate to lead by example instead of telling them to threaten Japan into submission.


Tam- From what I've seen of the Federal Courts, anyway the ones in Montana, they put up with no BS--- If OJ had been tried in the same court, instead of a 3 month trial, it would have been 3 days......


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Sandhusker
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tam, "Maybe this is the same reason that Japan is not willing to import from the US. Is this reason stopping the same Senators that passed the bill the other day about Canadian imports from writing letter to threaten Japan with Trade sanctions if they don't lift their ban on the US. Remember Japan has lost a citizen to the human form of Mad Cow. It is a clear case of do as the US says not as they do right Sandhusker. Why don't you and the US beef industry tell the Senate to lead by example instead of telling them to threaten Japan into submission."

Hey, I'm in agreement with you that there is a difference between how the US treats Canada and expects to be treated by Japan. I've been very vocal on the USDA's mishandling and outright BSing in regards to Japan. While I don't think the US and Canada should be viewed as equal risks (4 - 0), I think both the US's and Japan's actions show the inherant weaknesses in international trade agreements and alliances and this should tell us all how much we can bank on them.

I don't feel "Leading by example" has any merit at all. It is painfully obvious that countries will do exactly what is in their best interests to do.
Tam, we are taking your boxed beef. How many countries changed their policy based on our actions? Another example; The US has virtually no tariffs on imported beef, yet the average tariff we are going against is 80%. Our "leadership" there has us in a nasty disadvantage. Need I mention Europe? Naw, leadership only works when others are looking for a leader. I think you have to go into the international trade arena with the same attitude you would if you were playing poker in the wrong side of town.

Have a good night, time to hit the proverbial hay.


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~SH~
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandhusker: "Hey, I'm in agreement with you that there is a difference between how the US treats Canada and expects to be treated by Japan."

Of course there is! The U.S. expects Japan to take their beef but they are unwilling to take Canadian cattle that are now coming down in boxes. The U.S. tells Japan that our beef is safe yet shows fear for Canadian cattle.

Japan knows we had BSE within our borders, they know we don't have a traceback system, they know we have taken the same precautionary measures as Canada, and they know we have Canadian cattle in our mix.

Why should they take our beef if we are unwilling to take Canadian cattle WHEN WE HAVE CANADIAN CATTLE IN OUR MIX?

They're not going to fall for R-CULT's smoke and mirrors!

You must really think Japan is stupid!



~SH~


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Clarence
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sh:

Is Japan taking Canadian Beef?

When they do, your arguement will be valid.


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Tommy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarence wrote:
Sh:

Is Japan taking Canadian Beef?

When they do, your arguement will be valid.


Good point Clarence. Also is Japan going to take any live cattle for feeding or slaughter?


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Bull Burger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommy wrote:
Clarence wrote:
Sh:

Is Japan taking Canadian Beef?

When they do, your arguement will be valid.


Good point Clarence. Also is Japan going to take any live cattle for feeding or slaughter?


Tommy, why would they want to take live cattle in a small highly populated country? Why would we want to ship live cattle when we could add the value here?


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Tommy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BB...Why would we want to ship live cattle when we could add the value here?

My point exactly, we will not be selling Japan live cattle, only beef and that from under 20 months. So why would Japan be worried about us taking live cattle from Canada? I do not understand the arguement of those who say Japan will hold us to the same standard we hold Canada. If so they would be taking our beef right now up to 30 months of age.


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Bill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why doesn't Japan take beef from the US right now if you don't have BSE?


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