How many horses should one use for checking cattle daily.

[Faster horses]

Very true. One reason that they are better to the left is because...

what way do we tend to turn them after we get on...

[OldDog/NewTricks]

I just gained tons of respect for many of you

In the old days we'd halter break them and turn them out - bring them in at 2 - ride them a month and out they'd go until 4/5

I've seen people that don't know how to (treat)(care for) a horse - there were times when the guy/guy's working with me should have gone through 3 to 5 horses while I rode the same ol' pony all day
Example:
Roppin Wild Horses/Burrows
I always had a Pack-Hurse or Truck/Trailer near by with a Feed-Sack, Oats, Water (to drink & cool them), Fresh Saddle Blankets, Misc.

I always took care of them first and horse Love to hunt wild ones (It gets in the horses Blood - and Mine) and we're ALWAYS READY TO GO - Never had to take P&R's because I just knew/scented them

YUMA Arizona
We were done with the horses by 7:30 AM because of heat (Started at 2 AM)

Colts & Teens
My wife (had the same Hands as I have)(Some times I thought Better) she would feed at 5 AM clean stalls and have them excerized, saddled, checked-up and ready to go when I got there from work. I could teach a horse something and in many cases she had done the Daily (Repeat) work that someone needs to do every day. A good Trainer need to spend AT LEAST 1 hour per day on a horse - between the two of us that was more.

Many of the top Trainers Brag about riding a week or two with Charlie Maggini - I Learn't and Rode (and drank wine) with him for years Growing up and learning to ride with him - I thought he was Good but it was Years later that I found out what Others Thought Of Him

I'd ask Charlie questions like this one

He'd just look at me and say something like:
We talking 'bout s or a s

A Horseman Knows

[OldDog/NewTricks]

[righter]

Not what I thought it meant, but very true for most people. I find it very hard to lope a circle because I want to lean into the well. Makes it hard for the horse, I try to 'watch' myself so's not to do it.
When I was starting colts (out of the broodmare biz for the time being) it was always a point to do whatever I was doing -- mounting, dismounting, swinging or dragging a rope -- off both sides equally.
I read a good article not too long ago discussing that horses also see differently out of each eye, which explains why a horse might ride by a booger on the left, no problem, but pass the same booger on the way back, when it is on his right, and it freaks out. Not a behavior problem.
so not only is it natural for a horse to lope off on a left lead, or a right lead, but to have a totally different perception out of either eye.
The bottom line is what a fella who rides a lot of colts told me 'I have had a lot of good teachers, but a horse is the best one.'

[Faster horses]

Good trainers work with horses on the ground to make sure they look out of 'both eyes.' If they don't and catch something with the eye they don't use, that is when the spook really bad.

We had a spooky horse and did not know this. One session in the round pen and our horse trainer friend showed us this. He got directly behind the horse and then stepped to the right a couple of steps. The horse turned and looked at him with his right eye. The man then stepped back to the middle and took a couple of steps to the left and the horse turned his butt around so he could look at him out of the right eye again. He was not 'looking out of his left eye.' Only took a minimum of work to get him to use his left eye. Sure changed his spookiness.

When you see these true horsemen at work, riding them is the last thing they do. So much can be fixed on the ground. We just took a 4 year old to this same man yesterday. It was so interesting that I could not begin to tell you all he showed us about this horse. He was very defensive (we had purchased him) and it took some time, but he had lost so much of that before noon. And it was done without much dust.

This man believes in getting their feet and showed us how it is tied closely to their head and softness in their mouth. As I said, it is totally amazing what they can find out with ground work. He used a horse first, then stood on the ground in the round pen. Horses, believe it or not, do not know how to move their feet correctly and so much of the movement is defensive...and you need to get them to not be defensive and to give to pressure, which is not normal for a horse to do.

In-depth topic for sure!!!!

[ranchwife]

I made a living out of training horses that had already been through the Ray Hunt and Buck brannaman clinics. What they taught people who had no buiseness trying to ride colts was just enough to make it dangerous for all of them. They all try to sell a quick fix when there is no substitution for experience. Several miles under a saddle blanket doing the things you intend to do with them will beat horse whispering hands down every time. Horse whispering is just a show so someone can make money without working for it but in the meantime there is a lot of good horses that get ruined in the process. I fixed these problem horses untill I was as burned out as the horses that they were bringing me. Ilearned to train horses from my dad who trained teams in the early nineteen hundreds and also from several old time cowboys whose only transportation was a horse. Sure beats the hell out of a guy who trailers from place to place who is trying to tell you that all the old time people had it wrong. Hell,they lived with their horses so I reckon they ought to know how they operated and their minds worked. It took me a long time to figure out why dads horse rareley bucked with him when I would have a hard time riding mine untill realized that they do excactly what you expect them to do. If you expect them to buck they will if you just expect them to go out and learn then usually thats what they will do. these guys in the arena don't have a magic cure and what they do sell is generally just a bunch of BS that makes them look good and gets a lot of innocent people in trouble. If you want a horse thats broke right then go where they're still used as horse and rode by the cowboys you just can't see from the roadas Soapweed would say. Tjis is from cowboyup didn't realize until posted that ranchwife was still logged on

[Faster horses]

Sorry you had that kind of experience. The fellow I talk about rode big country, started breaking horses when he was 6 years old. Believe me, he has been there and done that. Was PRCA Saddle Bronc Rookie of the year in 1987. He owned 28,000 acres and his family owned or controlled another 44,000. It was in the Powder River Country of Wyoming. Some pretty rough country. He spent years with a pair of bridle reins in his hands. They did not hay, they ran cattle; a cake and grass outfit. This young man is a HAND with horses and cows. He says these days people can't and don't ride horses enough to get through some of these issues. What he does is find the problems, fix them and make the horses safer.He has paid his dues and he rides horses more than anyone I have even known. They are his life. Not tractors or haying machinery, or trucks or anything else. Horses are it. He has certainly fixed his share of problem horses. He can ride them if they buck, no doubt about it...but he does not want them to start. His program is to teach a horse to not be defensive and to give to pressure. That is all he wants and it is HUGE.

Safety is a big issue with all these guys. Many horses are not safe. Many people should not have horses, especially green horses.

Our friend went to some Buck Branniman clinics. I was suprised at that and I asked him why he was going to clinics when he could be giving clinics. He replied, "I'm not training horses, they are training me. "
He is humble, always seeking knowledge and I can tell you, he is the best help you could find. He can make a horse that has been ridden a few times look really good while doing a job OUTSIDE of an arena. Seen it for years, with my own eyes. His horses are sought after because even though he uses this method, his horses have to work for a living.

A lot of people did not understand the things Ray Hunt and Buck Branniman told them. Lets not blame the teachers for the student's failings when there are so many who have been helped with this method.


Oh, and by the way, cowboyup, if you think training horses this way is a quick fix and 'not work' you are sadly mistaken. We just left this man's place yesterday and, believe me, it is WORK. The end product justifies the means. The horse he rode to work the horses could be moved an inch one way or the other, backed up, gone foreward, all on a loose rein. No head slinging, no resentment. A joy to behold. That is what delights me when I watch a real horseman. Not much dust either. Not an arm wrestling either. What he gets done on the ground makes it much better when he rides the horse because the horse understands what he is being asked to do with his feet.

I'm not saying you can't get it done with lots of wet saddle blankets. There is more than one way to do it. But there aren't many wet saddle blankets anymore and there is an easier way.

The more you get, the more you want.

To each his own.

[theHiredMansWife]

I like to watch/read the different clinicians, too. Even with stuff that I think is bogus, it makes me pause and think about *why* I think it's bogus and what would make it "right".
But that said, I basically agree with cowboyup.
I don't really think a novice should be training a horse without someone experienced watching over their shoulder the whole time. Because experience is the only thing that teaches you to read a horse's body language and to know how to respond.

[Faster horses]

A novice should be riding a horse that is already well-trained until he is not a novice. I have no problem with that.

"Green on green makes broken bones".-Pat Parelli

[PPRM]

Just got my grey back from a guy in a feedlot. Gotta say I pulled the blanket and was not impressed. He told me the horse was acting lazy and they padded him. He thot the horse was being lazy to protect something that was hurting. He said he did better when he rode him every other day.

I think the horse was tired, nutritionally tired. Generally a friendly horse, he had no interest in you coming to him. He was way down on condition. I worked in a feedlot, I know the difference between rode down and tired. The mud is very tiring and they need calories. I generally think a feedlot is good at doing the final settling on a horse, but I'm not so sure this was the best experience for him.......

This is a nice horse, very broke, I don't know if you could get him to buck. i am thinking of three ladies near by that he would make a great friend for, but I want him looking better,

PPRM

[RoperAB]

As far as endurance goes, when the guy was talking about riding both sides of the horse I think he meant posting the same amount of time on the right diagonal as you do on the left. Most non pros tend to just post on the one diagonal which builds the muscles on that diagonal more than the other side which makes the horse more one sided.
If your horse is even muscled on both diagonals and if you alternate your posting from time to time on the ride the horse can go farther without playing out than the horse that is one sided and ridden on the one diagonal all the time.
Out of all the Dr. Phil type popular horse trainers out there I like Buck Brannaman the best.
Like all these different training methods work. Which one is best? Depends on the skill level of the person in the program.
I really like Mike Bridges and Ed Connell. Problem is most people dont have much time to actually ride horses or the experience to follow the program. This is why guys like Pat Parelli are so popular with the acreage owner crowd. Anybody can follow his program. So for bigginers its a good program.

[RoperAB]

Just a thought on stirrup wear.
Unless your roping or doing a slide stop. Yah really should not be putting much weight in your stirrups.
Also its a good idea to measure stirrup length. Dont go by the notches, even on an expensive saddle these notches can be off quite a bit.