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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21131
Location: Northeast Montana
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod how did we verify the age of beef before we had a system that we could record birth dates? How is the US age verifing beef they don't have a system in place? |
Been done down here for several years with hot iron brands and signed affidavits......
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Mike
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 13480
Location: Montgomery, Al
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DiamondSCattleCo
Rancher
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 1805
Location: NE Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thats great Mike. We don't have them here in those kinds of numbers. Not to mention that the US does not rely NEARLY as heavily on export sales as we do. 60% of our calf crop ends up outside our borders. When the Chinese market opens up, that number will climb, and the sheer numbers of age verified beef that will be required to satisfy that market will boggle the mind. Canada could corner that market, or at the very least, corner a LARGE portion of it, all it would take is some education of the producers and few genuine leaders.
I don't know why its so difficult to get cattle producers, even those who say they are in leadership positions, to look past today, or even tomorrow and into the next 5 years. We producers need genuine leadership who understand the markets.
Rod
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DaleK
Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 122
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: Reply |
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| I find it strange to think that it's the larger producers resisting mandatory age reporting. In Ontario, it's almost exclusively the smallest hobby producers with 10 or 12 cows who are resisting it, just as they were the ones who were providing most of the resistance to tagging the cattle, because it's not "fun" when you have to do things RIGHT instead of just doing whatever you want whenever you want to do it.
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Tam
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 5216
Location: Sask
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DiamondSCattleCo wrote: |
Thats great Mike. We don't have them here in those kinds of numbers. Not to mention that the US does not rely NEARLY as heavily on export sales as we do. 60% of our calf crop ends up outside our borders. When the Chinese market opens up, that number will climb, and the sheer numbers of age verified beef that will be required to satisfy that market will boggle the mind. Canada could corner that market, or at the very least, corner a LARGE portion of it, all it would take is some education of the producers and few genuine leaders.
I don't know why its so difficult to get cattle producers, even those who say they are in leadership positions, to look past today, or even tomorrow and into the next 5 years. We producers need genuine leadership who understand the markets.
Rod |
I ask you again what other options do we have to age verify Rod? Do you know for a fact that if we don't age verify our whole herd by birthdate the Chinese will not take our beef using any other option open to us? Forcing producer to put a tag in a ear is far different that forcing that producer to keep auditable record to prove the information he entered is true. We can fine them for not putting the tag in and then put one in for them but if we start fining producers for not providing the correct age the integrity of our system will be compromised. Do you really want to chance that by forcing producer into doing something they don't think is neccessary.
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DiamondSCattleCo
Rancher
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 1805
Location: NE Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Tam wrote: |
1) I ask you again what other options do we have to age verify Rod?
2) Do you know for a fact that if we don't age verify our whole herd by birthdate the Chinese will not take our beef using any other option open to us?
3) We can fine them for not putting the tag in and then put one in for them but if we start fining producers for not providing the correct age the integrity of our system will be compromised. Do you really want to chance that by forcing producer into doing something they don't think is neccessary. |
1) Actually, you mentioned there were other options. I asked you to list them, and their associated costs. And since you mention producers using the wrong information, if you can, please post how they are more accurate.
2) The Chinese have expressly said this is in trade meetings, yes. And if you look around, its the way the world is going. Right now, many countries are asking for it, and paying premiums. Its no stretch that they'll decide to make it a requirement. Age AND source verification is going to be necessary, and so will BSE testing, eventually.
3) The only sure fire way to ensure that the producer isn't lying about age verification is to test the animal itself, and from what I understand, thats a fairly slow process. Slow = expensive. We have RFID. We have the best product in the world. Please quit protecting the pocketbooks of the larger producers and those with access to the premiums and ensure the safety of EVERYONEs markets. Since you and BMR are in the SSGA, its up to you to protect the market for EVERYONE, especially the medium sized guy who doesn't even have the market power of the large producer.
Rod
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Manitoba_Rancher
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 2119
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Rod,
I believe you have way too much time on your hands. If you want to age verfiy your calves then you just go right ahead and do it, but dont pressure everyone else. As of this fall there was absolutely no premium for age verified calves in Manitoba. I personally do resister our calves but I do not think it should be mandatory!! If they try to make it law I think they will have a hell of a fight on their hands!
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DiamondSCattleCo
Rancher
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 1805
Location: NE Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Manitoba_Rancher wrote: |
| I believe you have way too much time on your hands. |
You can believe that if you want MR, but what I'm doing with my extra time these days is taking the time to learn more about the industry and what I can do to ensure the health of it, not insult people who do actually care about the industry. Short sighted producers fought M-ID, and thankfully, they lost. This is the same issue.
I hear it all the time, producers whine and complain on coffee row about us not having alternate export routes, so then packers, marketers and associations begin making inroads to opening those markets, only to find out that the producers won't do whats necessary to ensure the health of those new markets.
Rod
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ocm
Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 780
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Tam,
Do you have any idea how large the Chinese cowherd is? You really should check that out before you get your hopes up too much about selling beef to China.
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DiamondSCattleCo
Rancher
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 1805
Location: NE Saskatchewan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Actually OCM, thats me that has high hopes of selling to China. And yes, I'm aware of how big the Chinese herd is. I'm also aware of how underdeveloped it is, and how it can't feed its own people. China has sent numerous trade delegations to Canada in the hopes of opening up a beef trade with our country. Since they took over Hong Kong, China has begun to change from the inside out. They now have some resorts and some 5 star restaurants catering to a high end crowd and diplomats. And they have no way of servicing those outlets in-country. Its a huge, promising marketplace for the next 10 - 20 years. After that, they may end up being an export competitor, so Canada needs to be on the ball right now and captilize while we can.
Rod
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Tam
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 5216
Location: Sask
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| DiamondSCattleCo wrote: |
| Tam wrote: |
1) I ask you again what other options do we have to age verify Rod?
2) Do you know for a fact that if we don't age verify our whole herd by birthdate the Chinese will not take our beef using any other option open to us?
3) We can fine them for not putting the tag in and then put one in for them but if we start fining producers for not providing the correct age the integrity of our system will be compromised. Do you really want to chance that by forcing producer into doing something they don't think is neccessary. |
1) Actually, you mentioned there were other options. I asked you to list them, and their associated costs. And since you mention producers using the wrong information, if you can, please post how they are more accurate.
2) The Chinese have expressly said this is in trade meetings, yes. And if you look around, its the way the world is going. Right now, many countries are asking for it, and paying premiums. Its no stretch that they'll decide to make it a requirement. Age AND source verification is going to be necessary, and so will BSE testing, eventually.
3) The only sure fire way to ensure that the producer isn't lying about age verification is to test the animal itself, and from what I understand, thats a fairly slow process. Slow = expensive. We have RFID. We have the best product in the world. Please quit protecting the pocketbooks of the larger producers and those with access to the premiums and ensure the safety of EVERYONEs markets. Since you and BMR are in the SSGA, its up to you to protect the market for EVERYONE, especially the medium sized guy who doesn't even have the market power of the large producer.
Rod |
1: We use dentition now for the 30 month and under and Japan agreed on the tenderous test for the under twenty months. They may both be time consuming but both work and neither of them will put the integrity of our system into question like forcing producers to do something they don't want to just to satifiy you.
2: could you provide some proof from the Chinese that says they will only take our beef if it is age verified by birthdate. as I don't recall that I have heard that before.
3. I believe the SSGA is trying to protect the industry for all producers. I have to ask though do you really believe it is in the best interest to all producers to take away all the options they have to market their cattle the way they see fit. I DON"T. I also don't see a need to force producers into something that is NOT A HEALTH ISSUE. M'AGE' is not a Health issue it is a marketing OPTION, and should not be forced on those that don't choose to comply.
I don't want this to sound mean but Why do people always leave it up to others to protect their interests. What kind of Market power does it take to pay a $100 membership and attend a few meeting so you can have you say on the issues we are all facing together. The Policies the SSGA stand on are voted on by the general membership if you want your say buy a membership and VOTE. Just like BMR and I did. Our vote as large producers has not more power than yours as a small producer.
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Tam
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 5216
Location: Sask
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| ocm wrote: |
Tam,
Do you have any idea how large the Chinese cowherd is? You really should check that out before you get your hopes up too much about selling beef to China. |
Im not the one that is counting on the Chinses to flood us with orders that we can't supply Rod is.
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