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MoGal
Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 927
Location: SE MO
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| blatant disregard for fundamental constitutional rights – the right to free exercise of religion, the right of property ownership |
The "right of property ownership" bothers me more than anything. Especially with talk of a global currency in about 2024. If the country defaulted on a currency loan, the UN would much rather own agriculture land than some rocks and timber.
We keep thorough records of our cattle, DOB, ear tag #'s, I usually get breed back dates even because we (hubby or I) see them everyday. I think they could come up with an ID that doesn't involve all this tracking. Who cares if it spent 2 week or 2 months in pasture A,B,C, or D? All I want is to know what country its coming from. The consumer doesn't care if comes from Alabama or Oregon. I had a fella tell me a few weeks ago, he's been inundated with a bunch of NAIS literature and he says they are even planning to use it for grains and hay.
A country that refuses to keep imports safe for its own people wants to impose regulations like this???? I'm not afraid to eat our own American food, its the imports I don't want.
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QUESTION
Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 621
Location: EARTH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| For the 4th time i ask what is wrong with a system like the CCIA. A stand alone agency that keeps everything confidential. The only way to get imformation is for an animal to have a disease like tb, FAM or BSE and be confirmed then the approriate agency gets the number to the agency and they release the original owner's name and location so to do a trace out. At least up here records are kept and the producer produces a manifest as to what market the animal went then the market has to supply a record of the buyer and where the animal went . There is paper work to track the animal's life. Why oppose this type of system? I haven't heard a reason that stands up yet. R-CALFer's know the acency in canada won't release imfo unless it is a disease situation remember the Van Dyke issue this spring. It is so simple yet solves alot of problems. What are you guys afraid of? what are you trying to hide?
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PORKER
Rancher
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 4171
Location: Michigan-Florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Basic Problem |
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We keep thorough records of our cattle, DOB, ear tag #'s, I usually get breed back dates even because we (hubby or I) see them everyday. I think they could come up with an ID that doesn't involve all this tracking. Who cares if it spent 2 week or 2 months in pasture A,B,C, or D? All I want is to know what country its coming from. The consumer doesn't care if comes from Alabama or Oregon. I had a fella tell me a few weeks ago, he's been inundated with a bunch of NAIS literature and he says they are even planning to use it for grains and hay.
HOW do you AUDIT a package of COOL beef at US. Retail back to its origin which is from across the border? CCIA can't. Their is only one company that can do it . Can you Guess?
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: |
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I realize that not everybody brands. They're the ones who need to do something different, not the guys who do brand. Fix what is broken.
Yes, I also realize a brand is not an individual marker. But, we're being told we need NAIS to stop the spread of transmissible disease like FMD. In that case, they're going to be looking at the entire herd anyway and any other herd that any individual animal from an infected herd or area came in contact with. It won't matter whether it was #756, or #989 - all that matters is that it came from a suspect herd and in that case a brand does the trick. |
You're smarter than that. 100 calves may go 100 different ways after the sale, and some may be sold again after they catch a disease during only one of the stopping points.
You're only asking for more of a headache in having to find every animal that came from any one ranch that year.
What will you do then? Put an ad in a paper with a picture of the brand and tell every feedlot or stocker to call them if they have an animal with that brand?
What if #756 came in contact with a disease in route and #989 had been nowhere close to the disease? Do you kill them both?
Traceability is much more complex than ya'll make it out to be.
A herd brand alone won't work. It will take a unique identifying numbers/letters with recorded movements to do the job. |
If some disease like FMD was found in a feed lot, they would be looking into where all the animals came from. An individual tag wouldn't matter, they're checking where ALL of the animals came, regardless of tag/no tag. When they find where the suspect animal came from, they'll be looking at ALL the animals in that herd and ALL animals that ANY from that herd came in contact with. Individual numbers aren't going to mean anything.
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QUESTION
Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 621
Location: EARTH
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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Mike
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 16442
Location: Montgomery, Al
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
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If some disease like FMD was found in a feed lot, they would be looking into where all the animals came from. An individual tag wouldn't matter, they're checking where ALL of the animals came, regardless of tag/no tag. When they find where the suspect animal came from, they'll be looking at ALL the animals in that herd and ALL animals that ANY from that herd came in contact with. Individual numbers aren't going to mean anything.
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How would you find ALL the animals if you didn't have movement records from the originating ranch and where those individual animals' were and which animals had the same movements to prove contact?
Face it, a herd brand alone won't work. To be able to prove where an animal DIDN'T come from, you must be able to prove where it DID come from.
Would be easy enough to brand a unique number on a cows hip...
There are some guys that do it down here now. Personally, I prefer the ear tattoo.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: |
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If some disease like FMD was found in a feed lot, they would be looking into where all the animals came from. An individual tag wouldn't matter, they're checking where ALL of the animals came, regardless of tag/no tag. When they find where the suspect animal came from, they'll be looking at ALL the animals in that herd and ALL animals that ANY from that herd came in contact with. Individual numbers aren't going to mean anything.
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How would you find ALL the animals if you didn't have movement records from the originating ranch and where those individual animals' were and which animals had the same movements to prove contact?
Face it, a herd brand alone won't work. To be able to prove where an animal DIDN'T come from, you must be able to prove where it DID come from.
Would be easy enough to brand a unique number on a cows hip...
There are some guys that do it down here now. Personally, I prefer the ear tattoo. |
In brand areas, you do have records of where all the cattle went.
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PORKER
Rancher
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 4171
Location: Michigan-Florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: Thinking That |
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HOW do you AUDIT a package of COOL beef at US. Retail back to its origin which is from across the border?
CCIA can't do COOL.
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MoGal
Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 927
Location: SE MO
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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IF this has been posted elsewhere, sorry, but looks like they have another agenda in making this mandatory......
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http://www.txfb.org/NewsManager/templates/tfbnews.asp?articleid=2689&zoneid=1
Senate Agriculture Committee Chair Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) told reporters Thursday the massive ground beef recall sparked by video footage of abused downer cattle “shows the importance of having what he calls a ‘comprehensive’ animal ID system that covers all animals and provides 48-hour traceback to the farm or ranch,” the Brownfield Network reports.
While that statement “likely wouldn’t raise too many eyebrows, Harkin didn’t stop there. When pressed by reporters on the issue, Harkin wouldn’t rule out congressional action to make national animal ID mandatory.
"You know USDA could make it mandatory," Harkin noted. "Whether or not we’re going to do that in law, that remains to be seen."
Harkin also promised to hold hearings on national animal ID this spring and said such a program “wouldn’t cost that much, either.”
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18081
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I fail to see the relationship between NAIS and what happened at Chino.
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esbee
Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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This lawyer is right on the money but he did not cover the contract made by signing up for NAIS. Contract you say? What contract?
In the NAIS document those who own livestock are called "stakeholder"
and the land upon which the livestock presides is "premises". Contracts
use certain words for a reason. The lectric law library states that the
word premises signifies a formal part of a deed,and is made to designate an
estate; to designate is to name or entitle. Therefore a premises has no
protection under the United States constitution and has no exclusive rights
of the owner tied to it. Black's Law states 'premises' was a tenement or conveyance'. Stakeholder (the term the USDA is using to
identify us) refers to a third party who temporarily holds money or property
while its owner is still being determined.
By signing up for NAIS, title to property rights could be clouded, basically making the owner little more than a sharecropper.
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Yeah and NAIS won't help finding out where cattle came from when 20 head show FAM in a 50000 hd feedlot that only feeds black angus cattle and none of the infected animals have brands. Where did they come from? no way to know just wait it out until more show up? My god man this is no way to operate. i guess common sense is not so common