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Larrry
Rancher
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1281
Location: Utah and points east
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Okay OT so you want to keep repeating this silly phrase of yours. Fine with me that is your right.
Given that I would have the right and much more evidence in my claim if I call your socilist buddy BHO (Muslim Barry)
So tell us all what MUSLIM BARRY is going to do for you and your grandchildren.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 11779
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| TSR wrote: |
| RobertMac wrote: |
| OT wrote: |
| And the Cheney/Big Oil negotiated backroom secret energy policy of the past 7 years of the Bush/Cheney reign has been such a great stunning success |
You keep posting like that and the black helicopters are going to come pick you up...or would that be the guys in the white coats with the sleeveless jacket?!?!?!    
Energy policy for the last thirty years has been Sierra Club Democrat policy...blocking development of USA resources has led to our dependence on OPEC oil. These high energy prices are exactly what the Dems want and are spinning this to blame the oil companies...and a lot of fools are buying into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make no mistake about it...the Democrat party wants to destroy the oil industry!
But, TSR, where is the government going to replace the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF TAXES THEY PAY???????????????????? |
The government will find some way to replace those taxes or else do without them by, as you and others have suggested cutting spending. That's what they are doing now aren't they? And I am not referring to the cutting spending part. I mean the big oil companies are getting tax breaks already, compliments of our government, while other countries are charging them a lot more tax than what our country does. Boy I love helping those giant corporations by giving them those tax breaks so they can move those jobs overseas or use those tax breaks to help fund those higher taxes levied by foreign countries. Whatever we do, lets don't rescind those breaks and give them to smaller companies that don't relocate overseas (and which btw also pay taxes, many, many, small might equal 1 giant) and keep everything right here in America. No lets leave everything the way it is. America isn't a lucrative market for any corporation anyway is it.  |
They would do more business here (pay more taxes, pay more lease money, pay more royalties, employ more Americans, etc....) if the Democrats would let them extract US oil. This whole thing has an easy soltion if you think about it for 15 seconds.
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Cal
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 2774
Location: Southern SD
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| mrj wrote: |
TSR, do you really fail to understand that those increased taxes will be passed along to US, the customers who NEED that fuel????
Or, that oil is the fuel of private enterprise and democratic nations???
Or, that SUPPLY AND DEMAND are driving the price of oil higher because more third world nations are growing their economies and demanding (buying) more oil? Especially diesel fuel. And THAT is what's keeping fuel prices high!
But the real reason for the USA having such a shortage of our own fuel is the abject failure of Congress to stand up to enviro-extremists, in fact catering to them by blocking production of more oil and refining adequate amounts of fuels right here at home.
mrj |
....or the amount of capital needed for research and development, or the fact that throught the years the oil business is not always profitable, or that most common folks retirement funds are invested in oil. The rate of return on investment that "big oil"
recovers is usually far less than what those make that are doing all of the bellyaching. The collective taxes on fuel at the pump far exceed any profit realization by those that created the product.
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TSR
Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 799
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| mrj wrote: |
TSR, do you really fail to understand that those increased taxes will be passed along to US, the customers who NEED that fuel????
Or, that oil is the fuel of private enterprise and democratic nations???
Or, that SUPPLY AND DEMAND are driving the price of oil higher because more third world nations are growing their economies and demanding (buying) more oil? Especially diesel fuel. And THAT is what's keeping fuel prices high!
But the real reason for the USA having such a shortage of our own fuel is the abject failure of Congress to stand up to enviro-extremists, in fact catering to them by blocking production of more oil and refining adequate amounts of fuels right here at home.
I say they are being passed on to us right now anyway along with the shift of jobs to overseas. Do you understand that if that extra money was here we could be building up our country internally via small business and infrastructure. Or do we just keep on the same o, same o, way of giving giant conglomerates making more money than any time in the history of the world tax breaks tht could be put to better use here. The same breaks tht help fund their tax load abroad. Higher taxes that they evidently pay without a lot of thought. Why? because it is profitable for them to operate abroad even with those taxes. They know this lucrative US market (at least for now) will help them out that and our gov't.
Oil is the fuel of democratic nations???? China comes to mind, Mrj
You sound just like the Republican Senators on C-span Mrj. Supply and Demand is not the ONLY thing affecting prices.
mrj |
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Cal
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 2774
Location: Southern SD
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| It really seems like all of the Dems feetdragging on domestic exploration and wanting to stick it to "big oil" is mostly of benefit to the dictators like Chavez and Middle Eastern nations that have this history of promoting activities that are certainly not in our best interest, and are a definite burden to the people and businesses of the US. Oh well.....birds of a feather.....
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 15778
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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You know I'm to the point that I don't care if it took taxpayer money-and had to be done as a government project-- but I think someone should develop alternative sources- coal plants- coal gasification plants- wind tubines and transmission lines - strains of hybrid vehicles (electric, gas, multi fuels)- even if some of it sat unused when oil/gas prices were extremely low--just so the next time some Oil Execs, Speculators, or Ali Baba the camel rider cartels want to hold us hostage to their prices we can give them the proverbial finger and fire up all our own sources..
Much rather see our Billions and Trillions of $ doing that then going oversees to build the GW Bush TransIraqi desert highway...
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Mike
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 10091
Location: Montgomery, Al
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TSR
Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 799
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandhusker wrote: |
| TSR wrote: |
| RobertMac wrote: |
| OT wrote: |
| And the Cheney/Big Oil negotiated backroom secret energy policy of the past 7 years of the Bush/Cheney reign has been such a great stunning success |
You keep posting like that and the black helicopters are going to come pick you up...or would that be the guys in the white coats with the sleeveless jacket?!?!?!
Energy policy for the last thirty years has been Sierra Club Democrat policy...blocking development of USA resources has led to our dependence on OPEC oil. These high energy prices are exactly what the Dems want and are spinning this to blame the oil companies...and a lot of fools are buying into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make no mistake about it...the Democrat party wants to destroy the oil industry!
But, TSR, where is the government going to replace the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF TAXES THEY PAY???????????????????? |
The government will find some way to replace those taxes or else do without them by, as you and others have suggested cutting spending. That's what they are doing now aren't they? And I am not referring to the cutting spending part. I mean the big oil companies are getting tax breaks already, compliments of our government, while other countries are charging them a lot more tax than what our country does. Boy I love helping those giant corporations by giving them those tax breaks so they can move those jobs overseas or use those tax breaks to help fund those higher taxes levied by foreign countries. Whatever we do, lets don't rescind those breaks and give them to smaller companies that don't relocate overseas (and which btw also pay taxes, many, many, small might equal 1 giant) and keep everything right here in America. No lets leave everything the way it is. America isn't a lucrative market for any corporation anyway is it. |
They would do more business here (pay more taxes, pay more lease money, pay more royalties, employ more Americans, etc....) if the Democrats would let them extract US oil. This whole thing has an easy soltion if you think about it for 15 seconds. |
And who knows, if the Republicans hadn't blocked speculation reform, we might be debating drilling here in the US. And I can't help but think BOTH parties knew how it was going to end, this debate on speculation and drilling, before it ever started. I will give the Dem's credit for one thing, they weren't afraid to mention drilling here in the US, saying that the oil companies already had leases to millions of acres yet untapped. But the Republicans were afraid of the word "speculation", I think I heard one Rep. mention it during the C-Span debates. As I said earlier, I wish the whole country could have seen those debates in the Senate. They certainly were thought provoking.
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TSR
Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 799
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TSR
Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 799
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Mike
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 10091
Location: Montgomery, Al
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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One More Time:
www.taxfoundation.org
FISCAL FACTS
| Quote: |
November 9, 2005
Oil Company Profits and Tax Collections: Does the U.S. Need a New Windfall Profits Tax?
by Jonathan Williams and Scott A. Hodge
Fiscal Fact No. 41
This week, the Senate will hold hearings on rising oil and fuel prices and the subsequent record earnings recently posted by U.S. oil companies. Some lawmakers have suggested that these profits are unseemly and, thus, should be subject to a new “windfall profits” tax.
Before rushing to create a new federal tax, lawmakers should ask two questions:
(1) Do oil companies currently pay too little in taxes compared to profits?
(2) What was the effect of the last windfall profits tax enacted in 1980?
The answer to the first question is that over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal and state governments—including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three times what they earned in profits during the same period, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy.
These figures do not include local property taxes, state sales and severance taxes and on-shore royalty payments.
The answer to the second question, according to the Congressional Research Service (CRS), is that the 1980s windfall profits tax depressed the domestic production and extraction industry and furthered our dependence on foreign sources of oil.1 |
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TSR
Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 799
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: |
One More Time:
www.taxfoundation.org
FISCAL FACTS
| Quote: |
November 9, 2005
Oil Company Profits and Tax Collections: Does the U.S. Need a New Windfall Profits Tax?
by Jonathan Williams and Scott A. Hodge
Fiscal Fact No. 41
This week, the Senate will hold hearings on rising oil and fuel prices and the subsequent record earnings recently posted by U.S. oil companies. Some lawmakers have suggested that these profits are unseemly and, thus, should be subject to a new “windfall profits” tax.
Before rushing to create a new federal tax, lawmakers should ask two questions:
(1) Do oil companies currently pay too little in taxes compared to profits?
(2) What was the effect of the last windfall profits tax enacted in 1980?
The answer to the first question is that over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal and state governments—including excise taxes, royalty payments and state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than three times what they earned in profits during the same period, according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and U.S. Department of Energy.
These figures do not include local property taxes, state sales and severance taxes and on-shore royalty payments.
The answer to the second question, according to the Congressional Research Service (CRS), is that the 1980s windfall profits tax depressed the domestic production and extraction industry and furthered our dependence on foreign sources of oil.1 |
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Yes one more time-And I think the focus should be on the last 10yrs not the past 25. The oil companies pay much more in foreign taxes than they do in US taxes. Why in the world would they still operate in those countries with such tax rates?? Because it is PROFITABLE for them. Profitable for them in such a way that they are making more than any entity in history. Profits, that at least in part, are funded by our gov't compliment of the tax breaks we are giving them. Of course they just use the extra profit from those tax breaks to pay those foreign gov'ts' higher rates along with those 400 million dollar retirement perks of their ceo's of course.
And again without knowing the details of a Windfall Profits tax. I really can't say much of anything-pro or con. I would hope our Congress has learned something since the 1980's but maybe they haven't. lol But I do wonder just what would happen if such a tax was tied to the Federal tax on gasoline in an indirect relationship, along with alternative energy incentives.
But my thoughts still are that we don't need to be giving tax breaks to large very profitalbe multinational conglomerates when the money could be put to better use right here in the US helping small business that would stay here and keep jobs here. Businesses that could use the help.
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