This years foal crop

[Turkey Track Bar]

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

Hmmm....that's interestin. Never heard of bucked shins before tho.

After readin the artical, it says it happens more frequently in 2 year olds. I know training plays a big part, but I'd think startin em that young also plays a part. Am I right?

[Chickshunt2]

I have bought a lot of off the track TB's and you see "pin firing" a fair amount...other than looking bad it has no draw backs that I know of.

As far as I know training and yes starting them so young can lead to it happening....I really wish there were more rules to protect the horses....I have a hard time thinking of a good reason any horse racehorse, cowpony, etc. should be worked hard before the age of 3...I don't see the harm in LIGHTLY starting a horse at 2 but get the basics on it then get off and let it grow up for another year....But I guess when money means more then the life of a horse or of that horses legs/joints..you can guess what one wins out.( JMHO) ..I'm off my soapbox.....lol

[Oldtimer]

[Oldtimer]

TTB- I sure wasn't trying to bash you or racing- as I've owned some horses on/off the track too...Best stud I ever owned was one that got sored up on the track-and started running up into the air- but never bothered him a bit after he healed up- for working cows, roping, or breeding..

It does sound like some of the TB racing is a mess- and more so in certain areas of the country...But its became a catch 22-- if you don't use all the drugs that everyone else does- you can't win...

I liked one old breeder/trainer that said he grew up on the King Ranch around horses all his life- and they're born to run...They don't need to be filled full of drugs to do it...
I was kind of reminded of this while watching the Olympics- where the Chinese team is known to be lying and using underage gymnastic performers-which took gold... It seems like if there is a way to cheat to win, someone will always do it..

[Turkey Track Bar]

OT: No offense taken on my part...After giving some thought, I deleted my post; because I think it would add fuel to the fire. In essence this is what I said:

I agree that we shouldn't be drugging horses, or really other animals for that matter.

I do not think that we can blame all lameness on running horses as two year olds. I think horses have been raced as two's for a long time...but incidence of lameness, etc. have increased. That tells me that while age may have some piece in the problem, it's not the whole problem. I think it's additive...probably three or four other reasons too...

--Surface issues (it is proven turf horses don't have nearly the lameness or shin problems "dirt" horses do)

--Repetition--hock problems in ranch, arena, jumping, barrel, rope, etc horses is increasing in incidence annually. Heck human ergonomic ailments (carpal tunnel) are increasing at a huge rate too!

--I think one reason we see so many track horses fired is because of the high level of diagnostics in a track situation. Could it be that lots of ranch, etc horses have cannon problems but we don't catch them? My guess is yes. Our horse Cash did not even show any signs of lameness but had a ton of heat in his cannon bones. To our knowledge, he is only the second horse we've ever had fired, and both were cold fired. That is the reason the "polka dots" show up on him so well---just like a freeze brand. Both horses went to have fairly sucessful racing careers, and the other horse is as sound as could be, and he's well into his 20's.

--Structure and shoeing-I think we have bred horses to be so "long and flat" strided that we have inadvertantly ended up putting more pressure on the long bones and joints. Add to this, racers tend to be shod to make them even longer, and I think probably add more stress. I have no proof of this, just my observation. I'd say the opposite is true of lots of arena type horses...and thus their hock issues.

I do think that we need to think about how we encourage regulation in the horse world, as I have the sneeking suspicion that it will come back to haunt us in the "food animal" world. HSUS and other activist groups know once they win a "horse" fight, it's easy to take down the other species.

[Faster horses]

I liked your post, TTB. Good points. And I agree...however, I still think the race folks (and cutters, and reiners, and--and--and) ask too much out of a 2 year old. You know, their knees aren't closed until they are 27 months old. Oh ya, they X-ray them to find
out, I guess, but still, they ask a lot of a 2 year old. And it is because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$,

[lazy ace]

http://pedersonbhr.com/catalog/

Here is a link to the catalog sorry it is a little late.

have a cold one

lazy ace