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Grassfarmer
Rancher
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1002
Location: Central Alberta, Canada
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 Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Yanuck wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| I wasn't saying either Yanuck - I was asking what weight his cows were and whether 25lbs of hay was their sole feed source. |
thats what we feed ours, no grass as we have 3 to 4 feet of snow,they have salt and mineral, they walk a mile or so for water, and we have some rather large "sisters" |
How large and what quality of hay would be my next questions.
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Ben H
Rancher
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1737
Location: Gorham, ME
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| This gave me an idea, how about some sort of "Angie's List" for bull buyers. A website where users can posts seedstock producers, then select ratings and write reviews on their experiences. Potential buyers could then use this resource as an aid in selecting a source to buy their bulls.
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lazy ace
Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 600
Location: Grand River Casino
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Ben H wrote: |
| This gave me an idea, how about some sort of "Angie's List" for bull buyers. A website where users can posts seedstock producers, then select ratings and write reviews on their experiences. Potential buyers could then use this resource as an aid in selecting a source to buy their bulls. |
It would work great but remember it would only be as good as the honesty and integrity of who has the complaints against the seed stock producer....I have heard of one commercial guy that uses a bull and complains about him so the seed stock producer told him to run him to his local auction market and gave him full credit and the commercial guy buys back the same bull for weigh up price. It hasn't happened to us but another seed stock producer warned us about it.
have a good one
lazy ace
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Dylan Biggs
Rancher
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: hanna,alberta
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| PureCountry wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| PureCountry wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
| If your cows are worth a damn the calves should be weaning off the cow in the 600#to 700# range if they have proper nutrition. |
Why? |
Cos weaning weight equals profit don't ya know 
It's easy PC you just need to get with the program - stock up on these 1100lb cows that can wean 54-63% of their weight. The country is full of them apparently - a by-product of "performance testing" your bulls to prove their suitability as terminal sires  |
And running light calves over another year does'nt cost anything does it.
You know I ran some 1/2 highlander cows wide muzzeled big bodied cows just like your pictures showed. Those cows consumed more forage than my no good black cows but what the hell those 400# hairy calves come november could'nt even cover the cows feed bill.I had them penned seperate when selling time came and those cows have ALOT of capacity and they fill it with forage.
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. I'm accused of under feeding all the time so don't go painting my operation with your wide brush that the creep feeder are full of grain.As a matter of fact I have'nt fed 5 gallons of corn all winter to my cows or replacement heifers. They are getting corn silage that by the way was planted in june with NO commercial fertilizer so it's not exactly rolling with gold nuggets.That and some ground swamp grass mixed with it. I fed syrup for about a month to the cows but it's to muddy to continue with that and not cost effective.
You two guys who are meat jockeys can't say each cow is making all that profit. You are both adding value by further processing the end product. Your getting the all the money but also doing all the work from birth to death and beyond and basically the cow is making so much,then your selling grass,and silage,hay,processing fees sales cost's etc.etc.etc. You both act like that is all free and it is'nt. That would be like me saying well I built ten trailers this winter so my cows made another $20,000 thats bull I made another $20,000 working another aspect of my life. Don't go acting like one cow made $2500 on a fat steer take out all the cost's associated with it and tell the truth on the real profit.To run your calves over winter it's costing you at least 75 cents per day weather you admit it or not then the extra acreage for summer grassing the yearlings buy a pencil and write down all expences. And figure something for labor even if your are exploiting your kids because those kids grow up fast and if all you did was work the crap out of them they leave even faster. |
Who's painting with a wide brush?
I know your reply was directed at Grassfarmer, but I'd like to make an attempt to cool things down here, even though these heated debates keep things lively around here.
Denny, I'm well aware of what those backgrounded calves cost to winter - our winters are a little more severe than yours, so I know they don't get by on air and love. I also know what grass yearlings cost me. I know what they cost me in their 2nd winter, and as grass finished fats when they turn 2. To draw a correlation between my calculations and your trailer business is just false, their 2 different businesses altogether. You could technically break down our different enterprises if you really wanted to , but I don't, and that's my choice. Just as it's my choice to run the cows I do.
I have no idea which of my cows is eating more than the rest, be they the Highlands, the Galloways, the Angus or the crosses. As far as me choosing ones that can't get it done, I used to have cows that weaned 55-60% every year, and they cost more in our winters than the cows I have now, because there was a higher percentage of them open every year, plus late calves that didn't fit in, plus bigger cows that ON AVERAGE, eat more. I can't tell you how many pounds mine eat, but what I can tell you is they cost me around $400/year to run, depending on the year if we have to buy in feed or can get by on swath-grazing or stockpiled grass. The grassers cost another $300/yr to run until they finish at 2, for a total expense of around $1,000. Some years more, some less. $2500 potential profit is easy to figure out:
700lb carcass X $4/lb = $2,800. Sure we pay the cutting and wrapping and have more work into finishing animals ourselves - SO DO FEEDLOTS, and how much do you think they make? Some years our fats have cost us over $1200/hd, and with $400-800 in processing costs at the butcher, we're still making some decent money per animal, despite running around the country to a farmer's market once a week.
Our numbers work for us, I've never sat down with the pencil and paper and looked across at the wife and said, "Okay, let's make these numbers work for Denny."
Obviously you've got something figured out because you're still going, so good on ya. As for my numbers or choices, if you don't like 'em, don't bother letting me know, and I'll go on losing sleep over it. |
PC just curious, are you selling the 700lb carcass on the rail or broken down by the piece?
Denny lord knows it is a lot of work being a meat jockey, our kids would of quit us long ago if they weren't being paid.
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Yanuck
Rancher
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4283
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| Yanuck wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| I wasn't saying either Yanuck - I was asking what weight his cows were and whether 25lbs of hay was their sole feed source. |
thats what we feed ours, no grass as we have 3 to 4 feet of snow,they have salt and mineral, they walk a mile or so for water, and we have some rather large "sisters" |
How large and what quality of hay would be my next questions. |
we sold some culls awhile back that weighed 1700 and 1710, and we feed 1st and 2nd cutting alfalfa
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Northern Rancher
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12251
Location: saskatchewan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Well i know Dylan's and Pure Country's kids personally pretty happy campers anytime I've seen them-most kids are more than happy to do some work-it's the foundation of self worth.
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cowboyup
Member
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 430
Location: where i am
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| cowboyup wrote: |
| Grassfarmer wrote: |
| Denny wrote: |
The world is full of those type's of cattle that can raise calves 54 to 63% of their weight you just chose some that can't get it done. |
I guess that would depend how old they are when you wean them too? In my experience the type that can wean this weight of calf (% of dam's bodyweight) are usually accompanied by high cow maintenance costs and high inputs. The ones that aren't tend to belong to folks that don't own a scale or have bulls to market. |
If your cows have any milk they should raise these kind of calves without all the extra feed costs. for the record I sale alot of hay so I know what my bales weigh and I winter on 25 lbs per cow per day jan. thru 1st of may most years this one a little less. |
I was talking about a scale to weigh cattle rather than hay but I guess both are relevant. How heavy are your cows that can winter on 25lbs of hay and is this their sole ration or do they have grass to graze as well? |
My cows average between 12 and 1400 lbs. I try to leave some grass for them to pick at. I have one winter pasture that I only run culls in during the summer that by this time is pretty short so am moving them over some summer pastures to give them a little extra. I didn't have my hay tested this year but in years past it has run between 117 and 158 in relative feed value with most toward the upper end. Until I got on here I never realized that anyone fed more than 25 lbs as that is what I learned is supposed to be enough to maintain body condition but then I try like hell to bring my cows into winter in good condition and try not to let them slip even if it means feeding them in december. still the rule of thumb is a ton and a half to winter them till grass.
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Northern Rancher
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12251
Location: saskatchewan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| If you feed 25 pounds of hay and cull your opens in a few years you'll have cows that can winter on 25 pounds of hay-it's almost like magic!!
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Yanuck
Rancher
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 4283
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| lazy ace wrote: |
| Ben H wrote: |
| This gave me an idea, how about some sort of "Angie's List" for bull buyers. A website where users can posts seedstock producers, then select ratings and write reviews on their experiences. Potential buyers could then use this resource as an aid in selecting a source to buy their bulls. |
It would work great but remember it would only be as good as the honesty and integrity of who has the complaints against the seed stock producer....I have heard of one commercial guy that uses a bull and complains about him so the seed stock producer told him to run him to his local auction market and gave him full credit and the commercial guy buys back the same bull for weigh up price. It hasn't happened to us but another seed stock producer warned us about it.
have a good one
lazy ace |
or the guys who writes a rubber check, or doesn't write a check for 8 months, or the bull gets a wire cut that has nothing to do with a breeding injury...the list could go on for both sides.... why don't those of you who complain about seedstock producers go out and buy some purebred cows and go into business for yourselves?
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Northern Rancher
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12251
Location: saskatchewan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Just find out who your comfortable with doing business with and do business with them. When i warranty heifers I just give them their money back or if they would rather have another heifer or cow we do that. I absolutely hate bull sale credits there's bad outfits on both sides of the bull deal for sure.
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Dylan Biggs
Rancher
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: hanna,alberta
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Yanuck wrote: |
| lazy ace wrote: |
| Ben H wrote: |
| This gave me an idea, how about some sort of "Angie's List" for bull buyers. A website where users can posts seedstock producers, then select ratings and write reviews on their experiences. Potential buyers could then use this resource as an aid in selecting a source to buy their bulls. |
It would work great but remember it would only be as good as the honesty and integrity of who has the complaints against the seed stock producer....I have heard of one commercial guy that uses a bull and complains about him so the seed stock producer told him to run him to his local auction market and gave him full credit and the commercial guy buys back the same bull for weigh up price. It hasn't happened to us but another seed stock producer warned us about it.
have a good one
lazy ace |
or the guys who writes a rubber check, or doesn't write a check for 8 months, or the bull gets a wire cut that has nothing to do with a breeding injury...the list could go on for both sides.... why don't those of you who complain about seedstock producers go out and buy some purebred cows and go into business for yourselves? |
I have only had one bad experience with a guy in Colorado he told me the bull was lame and he wanted his money back. So I asked some questions about the lameness and he was unable or unwilling to come up with any specifics. I had his helps phone # and asked him what was wrong with the bull and he said there was nothing wrong with him, apparently the purchaser was just mad at the bull because the bull had been difficult to get out of the cows at the end of the breeding season.
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lazy ace
Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 600
Location: Grand River Casino
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