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rkaiser
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 1953
Location: Ponoka Alberta
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~SH~
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 5427
Location: South Western SD
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 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Mike: "Prionics Check Western/Elisa test would meet the criteria you specify. Can and has detected prions in subclinical animals. It's the one Japan and Europe has found UTM positives with."
Three questions Mike....
1. Has this test revealed any positives in animals younger than 20 months of age which most fed cattle would fall under?
2. Is this test approved for use in Canada and the U.S.?
3. What is the cost per head?
All relevant questions to the issue of 100% testing.
Mike: "Bio-Rad, the first rapid test approved by the USDA in 2004, was notorious for false positives and was the only one Creekstone could have gotten at the time due to approval by the USDA."
Perhaps that would be one reason why USDA would not approve it ya think?
Thanks Mike!
~SH~
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Mike
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 16951
Location: Montgomery, Al
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| ~SH~ wrote: |
Mike: "Prionics Check Western/Elisa test would meet the criteria you specify. Can and has detected prions in subclinical animals. It's the one Japan and Europe has found UTM positives with."
Three questions Mike....
1. Has this test revealed any positives in animals younger than 20 months of age which most fed cattle would fall under?
2. Is this test approved for use in Canada and the U.S.?
3. What is the cost per head?
All relevant questions to the issue of 100% testing.
Mike: "Bio-Rad, the first rapid test approved by the USDA in 2004, was notorious for false positives and was the only one Creekstone could have gotten at the time due to approval by the USDA."
Perhaps that would be one reason why USDA would not approve it ya think?
Thanks Mike!
~SH~ |
1- I do not know the answer to that question. I am almost positive that 20 months is the earliest an animal has tested positive.
2-Yes it is approved for use in Canada and US. As my previous statement says: It is the one used for confirmation now.
3-Cost per head is more than the Bio-Rad, in the $30 range.
SH:"Perhaps that would be one reason why USDA would not approve it ya think?"
Many wonder why it was approved by the USDA. Others were appoved just weeks later.
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18244
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| ~SH~ wrote: |
Sandhusker,
Where is the BSE test for UTM animals that is a reliable depiction of BSE before the animal shows clinical signs of the disease?
What Creekstone was offering was to test cattle with a test that wouldn't reveal anything anyway.
Are you offering the same deception?
Before you can test UTM cattle don't you have to have a reliable test for UTM cattle???
~SH~ |
Just when I decided to give up pig wrestling..... 
SH, "Where is the BSE test for UTM animals that is a reliable depiction of BSE before the animal shows clinical signs of the disease?"
So now you're telling us that an animal has to show clinical signs of the disease before it will test positive?"
SH, "What Creekstone was offering was to test cattle with a test that wouldn't reveal anything anyway.
What Creekstone was offering was what Japan wanted, tested beef, and what the US wanted, an export market" Everybody is happy, except the AMI.
SH, "Are you offering the same deception?
That comment reminds me of our last conversation on "deception". Remember how it went, SH". Let me remind you to save you going back in the achives.
SH, "I don't want to be a part of deception"
Sandhusker, "It's not deception when they are the ones asking for it"
SH, "Testing UTM animals is not based on science"
Sandhusker, "They look at this differently than we do, "science" is not all they're looking at."
SH, "They obviously don't know about the science or they would't be asking for testing".
Sandhusker, "They've been dealing with BSE more than we have. They know more than we do."
SH, "They've obviously been mislead, somebody must of told them something sometime".
Sandhusker, "Your whole deception arguement boils down to "Somebody must of told them something"?
Of course, since I'm an R-CALF member, I'm obviously lying, as that is all any R-CALF member does (that and blaming and deceiving). Feel free to search the archives and post our exact exchange if you feel my paraphrasing is inaccurate. SOMEBODY MUST OF TOLD THEM SOMETHING..... yep that will hold up in court!  Geeeeeeeze
SH, "Before you can test UTM cattle don't you have to have a reliable test for UTM cattle???"
Does Mike need to prove you ignorant again? Mike, clean up on aisle 3 here!
SH, "Just parroting the lines again huh?"
You should try a little parroting, SH. You solo act holds as much water as a sock. 
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Oldtimer
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 24735
Location: Northeast Montana
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| SH- I have one question-- You and USDA kept saying that testing under 30 month was not justified under "sound science"... Then answer me this- what is the "sound science" that justifies us taking under 30 month beef from Canada - but at the same time agreeing to send only under 20 month beef to Japan--- Remember this is all about the science- You and USDA have both said we should not use politics or consumer demands on developing trade standards........
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Jason
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 2001
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Broke Cowboy wrote: |
Canucks
test everything - stop implants
you get Japan and European markets
what are you waiting for?
BC |
This isn't quite true.
In the midst of all this BSE nonsense, the UK has actually increased the health requirements for animals/embryos being shipped over there.
The new regulations for embryo export state that the dam and sire of the embryos have to test negative for all diseases that live cattle would be required to pass if they were allowed to be exported to the UK.
Last year only 4 bulls passed all the tests. IBR is the big one, it eliminates most of the animals.
The European market is highly protected and a sudden drop of implants, while a step in the right direction, won't magically open access there.
Japan is also highly protected and testing has never been the real issue. Canada and Japan are negotiating a free trade deal. There is a chance Canada will access the Japanese market sooner than the US because of extended talks.
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~SH~
Rancher
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 5427
Location: South Western SD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Sandhusker: "So now you're telling us that an animal has to show clinical signs of the disease before it will test positive?"
DIVERTION!!!!
Where is the BSE test that will detect BSE prions in slaughter cattle under 20 months of age?????
WHERE IS IT SANDHUSKER??????
It doesn't exist!!!!!
Facts:
1. BSE prions are not detectable in cattle younger than 20 months of age so testing of cattle under 20 months of age (the bulk of slaughter cattle) is worthless.
2. Japan has moved their position away from 100% testing toward age verification.
3. Sandhusker has offered no proof that the Japanese parliament is willing to take tested beef today from cattle under 20 months of age.
Past this, the rest of your slanted points are moot!
Sandhusker: "Of course, since I'm an R-CALF member, I'm obviously lying, as that is all any R-CALF member does (that and blaming and deceiving)."
Poor, poor little Sandhusker!
PLAY THE VICTIM!
Sandhusker: "You solo act holds as much water as a sock."
Then I fully expect you to offer facts to the contrary of 1-3 above.
Observe....................
~SH~
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Sandhusker
Rancher
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18244
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| ~SH~ wrote: |
Sandhusker: "So now you're telling us that an animal has to show clinical signs of the disease before it will test positive?"
DIVERTION!!!!
Where is the BSE test that will detect BSE prions in slaughter cattle under 20 months of age?????
WHERE IS IT SANDHUSKER??????
It doesn't exist!!!!!
Facts:
1. BSE prions are not detectable in cattle younger than 20 months of age so testing of cattle under 20 months of age (the bulk of slaughter cattle) is worthless.
2. Japan has moved their position away from 100% testing toward age verification.
3. Sandhusker has offered no proof that the Japanese parliament is willing to take tested beef today from cattle under 20 months of age.
Past this, the rest of your slanted points are moot!
Sandhusker: "Of course, since I'm an R-CALF member, I'm obviously lying, as that is all any R-CALF member does (that and blaming and deceiving)."
Poor, poor little Sandhusker!
PLAY THE VICTIM!
Sandhusker: "You solo act holds as much water as a sock."
Then I fully expect you to offer facts to the contrary of 1-3 above.
Observe....................
~SH~ |
OH, Lord, here we go again.
How can I be diverting when I addressed directly your statement? Diverting from what? You paint yourself into a corner and holler "Divertion"? Try "Uncle".
Facts: (according to SH)
1. BSE prions are not detectable in cattle younger than 20 months of age so testing of cattle under 20 months of age (the bulk of slaughter cattle) is worthless.
Logical response; It may be worthless for the sake of detecting prions, but has huge value for the sake of selling beef to the Japanese, and afterall, what puts money in our pockets, finding bugs or selling beef?
2. Japan has moved their position away from 100% testing toward age verification.
Resoponse; Oh really? How much age verified beef have they taken in the last year? You can give me tons or dollar values. How much have they scheduled to take next week, month, or year?
3. Sandhusker has offered no proof that the Japanese parliament is willing to take tested beef today from cattle under 20 months of age.
Response; Nice insertion of the word "parliament", SH. But, I caught it. SH chooses to ignore the fact that Creekstone had negotiated directly with the Japanese, had a contract with them in hand, and felt strongly enough about the deal they had that they invested millions in a BSE testing facility.
But, he needs more proof 
I rest my case.
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STAFF
Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 178
Location: Sarasota Florida
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: Just how many BSE TESTs ARE THERE??? |
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| Can someone give an accurate count of the different number of BSE tests and the type in the world
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Offer the same deception Mike---------For cripes sake this whole issue is about deception. I don't agree that testing is the truth, but if it opens a door and saves a few Canadian producers, is it wrong.