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Selling Bulls / buying bulls

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jigs
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Selling Bulls / buying bulls

Postby jigs » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:38 pm

I am very interested in selling a couple bulls this next year. I have two bull calves marked very well, and the growth is just phenominal. I have epd's and all the papers on my bulls I buy, but the cows are all replacements and good stock to start with, but no records.

My neighbor has really taken a shine to the looks of my calves and thinks I ought to pursue it......question is, is it worth the hassle of tracking all the data for just a few bulls? And how many guys out there just buy on the looks?>


I admit, the epd's do not really make the sale for me. If the numbers say bull "A" is the better bull, but bull"B" has the better 'look' I will buy bull "B". am I the only one left ignoring epds ???

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Aaron
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Postby Aaron » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:10 pm

If the calves are off your top cows and are off solid bulls, you already have them sold. Heck, as far as commercial production goes, I would buy a good grade bull and currently have a one running with our commercial cows. Alot of purebred bulls for sale every year that come off mediocre cows.

EPD's are a handy asset, but if you know your cows and have been breeding generations for certain traits (ie low birth/high weaning etc.), then you know what to expect and can relay that information to your customer.

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Mike
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Re: Selling Bulls / buying bulls

Postby Mike » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:16 pm

jigs wrote:I am very interested in selling a couple bulls this next year. I have two bull calves marked very well, and the growth is just phenominal. I have epd's and all the papers on my bulls I buy, but the cows are all replacements and good stock to start with, but no records.

My neighbor has really taken a shine to the looks of my calves and thinks I ought to pursue it......question is, is it worth the hassle of tracking all the data for just a few bulls? And how many guys out there just buy on the looks?>


I admit, the epd's do not really make the sale for me. If the numbers say bull "A" is the better bull, but bull"B" has the better 'look' I will buy bull "B". am I the only one left ignoring epds ???


EPD's are just another toll in the box. You might consider EPD's when choosing between two bulls who are similar in conformation though. But let me tell you how accurate EPD's can be; My partners and I have a bull enrolled in the "Conception to Consumer" (C to C) program with the Canadian Charolais Assoc. The average weaning weights of the two sire groups were within one pound of the EPD spread, and the yearling weights were within just a couple of pounds.
They are not always this accurate but all we have for prediction. Use 'em, you'll be glad you did.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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PPRM
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Postby PPRM » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:06 pm

From your post, I am assuming you are selling non registered stock.

I have some freinds that sell yearlings every year from their commercial erd. He doesn't do any special feeding. I bought one from him for my herd 16 months ago. He was a herder, but sure goit the breeding done. I paid $900 for him, not sure where the price is today. Point is he was getting a couple huindred extra every year for his ten best male calves. That's the cheap way in to get a little extra.

One of the best bulls I ever had was just a nice calf that grew like hell from a plain cow. Bought them as a pair and didn't get around to marking him. Watched him grow and decided not to. Actually collected from him as he is the base sire to my cows. Frontier Genetics in Hermiston collected. Several people from several breed organizations were wanting to know where he came from as he was a shiner. Their hope was he was one of their own. Never pulled any calves from him, and always had big growthy weaned calves with lots of class.

My point is there are some commercial herds that have been buying great bulls forever. They have upgraded their cows to a point where their calves aren't much different in performance than the purebred guys. When I find a commercial herd I like, I am not against seeing if the guy will set aside a few for me. I buy them young and grow them out. He makes some more and the cost to me is a lot less,

Just a different view than the norm,

PPRM
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Faster horses
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Postby Faster horses » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:39 pm

With our straight-bred commercial Angus herd, we have people that want to get bulls from us. We aren't in the bull raising business. However, people are persistent. A couple of years ago some neighbors wanted a bull from us and at branding, picked one out and stood over it so they could be sure it remained a bull. They picked it up that fall and it has worked outstanding for them. The bull looks good and what he produces has turned out very well.

A great old cowman told us this about buying bulls when we started in this business (before EPD's). "Go to a good outfit and buy the middle, don't go to a poor outfit and buy the best". I think that is good advice still today. If you have a good herd of cattle, you should be able to sell some bulls just on the merit of the cows.

I think if you save the top end of your calves, it will work fine for you. Sounds like you already have some interest.

Rice Ranch, here in Montana has made this type of deal very successful for themselves. They buy good herd sires, breed their commercial cows and sell commercial bulls for quite a lot of money. When we needed some heifer bulls a few years ago, we went to Tri-Mountain Angus at Townsend. That program is based on low-birthweight. He pasture breeds, knows the cows and weighs the calf at birth and performance records the calves. He DOES NOT know which bull each calf is out of. Those bulls worked wonderful as heifer bulls and one of them is an outstanding individual which we still have. Those were relative inexpensive bulls, too. Although they weren't registered, they did just what the man said they would because he knows what he has done with that bunch of cattle. He pays a lot of money for his herd bulls as well.

Stay focused on what you want to do, and go for it. Breed what you want, don't be swayed by what they want. There is a lot of people that are in the business of selling 'bulls', but their cowherd has suffered. That's where you can come in.

Hope this helps!! JMHO, however!

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alabama
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Postby alabama » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:54 pm

Start with the EPD's. Find a set of bulls that have the EPD's you need and then pick out of that groop the bull you like the looks of. With all the bulls out there you can get what you want at a fair price.

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Postby katrina » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:54 am

Papers are just that.....Papers. Go for it!!! If nothing else use it for a learning tool... MIke... I have some old, old Charlois seman in my tank. How can I find out what it is? Is there a web site I can go to? Thanks...

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Mike
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Postby Mike » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:09 am

katrina wrote:Papers are just that.....Papers. Go for it!!! If nothing else use it for a learning tool... MIke... I have some old, old Charlois seman in my tank. How can I find out what it is? Is there a web site I can go to? Thanks...


Katrina, Shoot me the numbers off it, I'll be glad to find out for you.

P.S. I haven't forgotten your return favor. It should be here soon.
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katrina
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Postby katrina » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:25 am

Quick Silver, ch0140? You don't have to get us anything Mike...

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Mike
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Postby Mike » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:37 am

katrina wrote:Quick Silver, ch0140? You don't have to get us anything Mike...


Not enough numbers. Should 6 digit numbers. Take a look and let me know. You might have something there that's worth more than you think.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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Mike
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Postby Mike » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:40 am

Mike wrote:
katrina wrote:Quick Silver, ch0140? You don't have to get us anything Mike...


Not enough numbers. Should 6 digit numbers. Take a look and let me know. You might have something there that's worth more than you think.

------------------------------------------------------------
Could this be him?

Name Birthdate
M433372 506 QUICK SILVER 506 PLD 11 March 1995
Sex Male BLD Horn P
% 32/32 DNA
Breeder 142495 DAN & KATHY QUICK REDDING IA

Owner 19799 STUCK FARMS GRAND RIVER IA
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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katrina
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Postby katrina » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:58 am

Mike: With numb fingers I type. Silver Creek 29ch0140..It's ABS....


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