Ranchers.net Bull Session

Who do you think is some of the best Seedstock producers?

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
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Mike
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Postby Mike » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:22 pm

Aaron wrote:Good post Mike, agree with you 100%. Trust is #1. I build my customer base one person at a time. First thing out of my mouth is to ask what goals the person has in mind, or what they want to improve in their herd. I am a straight shooter and will let you know if I can supply your needs, and if I can't, I will give you the names of people who can....regardless of their breed...although the Hereford people do tend to get mentioned first. :P Most people either have very vague goals or none at all, so it's usually not hard to please them.


You got it Aaron-and when you get those calls to deliver those "sight-unseen" bulls, you'll know you're trusted. It will also put you under some awful unecessary pressure. :lol2:
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Postby Oldtimer » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:32 pm

the real jake wrote:The N-Bar ranch, when Tom Elliot owned it. Jim Austin was the manager. That was a shame that great old ranch got sold and the cattle let go. They had the whole package. Moderate frame size, calving ease, and carcass among others. They might be a little wilder than some Angus, but the rest made up for it.

Also, our new source for calving ease bulls, but I'm not letting that one out, as they already cost too much without more competition. :D They made my spring pretty easy so far.


I have to agree with N-Bar being good usuable cattle- and with the growth extremes that have came about because of the seedstock cattle in the last 10-20 years, I see Larry Leonhardt, Diamond D Angus, and Ohlde Cattle Company coming forward as the top producers of the future... I read the other day where even Gardiner Angus will be using OCC Emblazon in their breeding... A neighbor of mine was at a multi-owner bull test sale today where he said that all the Ohlde influence bred bulls went for over $3000....

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Postby Faster horses » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:48 pm

I, for one, can really appreciate your post, OT. However, I mentioned Sitz because of the many good Angus cattle out there that carry the Sitz prefix. Would I go to their sale and buy a bull? No. But would I seek out their bloodlines from someone else's herd that I liked the cows? Definitely yes. I think Sitz for one, and Conneally for another, have contributed much to the breed. I'm not crazy about some of the dispositions of Sitz's cattle. In fact the worst disposition bull we ever owned came directly from them. But they do have some really good cattle that you can select with good dispositions. We like to get them from smaller breeders with gentle cows.

I think the moderate frame and easy-fleshing Angus cattle have to be where we are headed next or there is a train wreck ahead. JMHO!!

We know Larry Leonhardt personally and have promoted his cattle, DeBoos and OCC's as well. What about Kit Pharo? He has brought these type of cattle to the forefront with his philosphy.

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Postby Northern Rancher » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:17 pm

N Bar sure had a nice place for sure-they would of really done the beef business a favour if they'd buried EXT in a big hole then piled rocks on it-can't wait to see the last of those wispy little snakes leave this place lol. Wayne Stevenson was a heck of a cowman too-we lost a heck of a good man there. I'll never forget the time I spent with him looking at cows or quizzing him on the phone-he always had time for you whether your chequebook was big or not.

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Postby BRG » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:34 am

No disrespect, but I don't think Kit can be on this list. I think he is going to far the other direction. When you start to promote 2 frame bulls you will loose alot of everything. I am feeding out around 1000 of my customers calves this winter and spring and you need to have performance and a carcass to sell. Angus and Red Angus are already naturally moderate framed. I agree the cattle should be smaller than they have been in the past but his thinking to to extreme.

BRG

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Postby Jinglebob » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:19 am

BRG

I ain't arguing with you, but how are you going to breed smaller cattle if you don't use a 2 or 3 frame bull on 4 and 5 frame cows?
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Postby BRG » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:58 am

4 to 5 frames cows are small enough. A 4 frame score bull at 12 months old is under 4 feet tall. 47 inches to be exact. With this type of animal the carcass weights are going to be to small. You will also most likely end up having several yield grade 3's and 4's, because they will get to plumpy to fast. I think if we keep our cows around the 1200lb to 1350 lbs(depends on your enviroment) we will keep everyone happy including ourselves. When I say depend on your enviroment, I will give you an example, we purchased a few loads of cattle from a ranch in WY. They were 4 year olds. When they got here they were all 5 frame or under and weighed about 1000lb to1100lbs, in one year they grew a full frame score and they now way 1400+. Some grass just don't let cattle stay that size. But to answer your question, in order to get your cattle smaller will you need that type of bull to do it. The answer is not really. We have found out that with the moderation that the Angus cattle have, red or black, that they will normally be a little smaller than their paernts if their parents are the same size. It is just natural for them to be a little more moderate.

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Postby Big Muddy rancher » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:08 am

Would not choosing replacements from the middle of the herd and not the top or biggest hfrs not moderate and even out a cow herd. I know it is hard to disipline ones self not to pick the biggest but I think that leads the herd down the wrong direction.
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Postby Mike » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:37 am

Big Muddy rancher wrote:Would not choosing replacements from the middle of the herd and not the top or biggest hfrs not moderate and even out a cow herd. I know it is hard to disipline ones self not to pick the biggest but I think that leads the herd down the wrong direction.


Big Muddy, Culling the heifers is a two-edged sword. By culling the smallest, (and using an age consideration) you are getting rid of slow growers, and by culling the largest at weaning you are giving up that faster growth too. The larger calves at weaning do not necessarily make the largest cows/bulls in my situation. I cull the bottom end at weaning, make a cull after ultrasound and let the heifers calve at least once, sometimes two, then make another decision. My bull customers will not accept moderate growth at weaning, because they are weaning on the trailer and selling by the pound. I guess it's a question of when you cull also.
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Postby Big Muddy rancher » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:44 am

Possibly the difference between PB and commerical operations. When calving out 400 head we have 200 hfrs to choose from for 40 replacements. I agree that you need good growth but I try to weed out the framyist Hfrs and pick the evenest package I can. To do that you have to go the the top of the middle of the group and that way you eliminate the extremes.
I realize when selling PBs that most customer say they want one thing then buy the biggest bull in the lot.
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Postby BRG » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:07 am

Another ranch that I think needs to be on this list is the Vermillion Ranch. Pat Goggins does alot of things, and one that he is very good at is the support he gives his customers after they buy a bull from him. He spends alot of money making sure his customers are happy, He then turns around and supply's them with top replacement heifers.

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Postby Northern Rancher » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:13 am

Yeah better put Patty right up there as he is at the bottom of my Christmas card list lol wait no Leo McDonnell is-wait no Judge Cebull is hmmmm better just drop the whole bunch off all together.


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