Ranchers.net Bull Session

george

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
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PPRM
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Postby PPRM » Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:40 am

I have had some Gelbvieh cross into my cattle. I really don't think it is a breed I'd look at against Charlais, but that goes to what I am trying to accomplish. I've had good luck feedign Charlais and Charlais cross cattle.I'd tend to look for some angus to cross them with, but that's me. I think with the gelbvieh on Charlais, you are crossing one size and growth breed with another. Might gain some on the heterosis, always a good thing.

I preface this with the fact I sent some straight Charlais to the packer and got mostly Choice YG 1's and 2's. There are some great individual cattle n the breed, but on average, you cross Charlais to help them with Quality Grade and get from them YG and growth/size. My experience anyway,

My ideal cross tends to be simmental and angus, I lkie the female traits being good enough to keep the heifers. But if you read my post for what it is, I have seen great calves done with a variety of breeds, I'm not stuck on anything,


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Hanta Yo
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Postby Hanta Yo » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:26 pm

I appreciate everyone's point of view, I just plain like to share. Here is some data on a Gelbvieh steer out of a TC Stockman daughter:

QG: CH, BFT: .19, RE: 15.6, HCW: 959, YG: 2, Profit: $231.00

CH X on Gelbvieh, I agree is crossing big on big, better to cross on Angus.

On all our steers Angus sired were 92% CH, 28% YG 2

GV sired were 50% CH, 80% YG 1 & 2

CH sired were 69% CH, 70% YG 1 & 2

We've been trying to breed Angus on Gelbvieh and Gelbvieh on Angus and used Chars to clean up. Got rid of the Chars tho. Now we're cleaning up with balancers.
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DOC HARRIS
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Postby DOC HARRIS » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:59 pm

George wrote:My daughter and I ( she is almost 16 now) love to take my Special edition Gold wing and just ride the winding tree lined roads of southern Indiana. Of the 3 hundred acres I own about 50 of it is pastured woods - - - I keep them thinned with a bull dozer and leave the good trees with sunny grass areas between. It is really beautiful looking at registered Charolais in that setting - - - I will breed to an Angus bull this year to try to break into the 4H calve market as the parents seem willing to pay any price for a "smoky" calf. It would probably break your heart watching me take trees out but an uncontroled area becomes nothing but a breeding ground for deer and coyotes.
...AND . .uncontrollable brush fires and 'stunted' mature trees. That is what is the trouble with the forest fires here in the WEST - - many species of Conifer (pine) need fire to open the pine cones for seed germination. Too much "Smokey the "BARE". I hope the 'tree huggers' are going to eventually get some common sense. - - - -But don't hold your breath! They protect and protect and protect and refuse to let nature naturally thin out the undergrowth - - and then- - - -WHA-A-A-M-M-M! - -Just like Yellowstone several years ago. You are doing it right, George. Beautiful, too!

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Postby DOC HARRIS » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:16 pm

Hanta Yo wrote:I appreciate everyone's point of view, I just plain like to share. Here is some data on a Gelbvieh steer out of a TC Stockman daughter:

QG: CH, BFT: .19, RE: 15.6, HCW: 959, YG: 2, Profit: $231.00

CH X on Gelbvieh, I agree is crossing big on big, better to cross on Angus.

On all our steers Angus sired were 92% CH, 28% YG 2

GV sired were 50% CH, 80% YG 1 & 2

CH sired were 69% CH, 70% YG 1 & 2

We've been trying to breed Angus on Gelbvieh and Gelbvieh on Angus and used Chars to clean up. Got rid of the Chars tho. Now we're cleaning up with balancers.
AH-HAH! NOW you are breeding REAL Heterosis into your herd!! Lee Leachman has some incredible results with his Balancers, and Phenotype and Genotype of those crosses will pop you eyes open! :shock: :shock: :shock: These cleaned up calves will really make a statement, Hanta Yo. Your steer results are marvelous, and so will your next calf crop! Good for you! If I sound enthusiastic for you - - it's because I am! :D :D

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Postby Chuckie » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:52 pm

and then there are those that cannot stand leachmen and his muttly crossbred bulls. let's just throw a mutt in with the cows and see what happens: there has to be something good come out of all that breeding!

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Postby Silver » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:00 pm

Good crossbreeding is what makes good commercial cattle. My favorite cross was blonde bulls on simmental cows. Made great mother cows, and fantastic weaning weights. I found a pic of our weaning calves on the Canadian Blonde website. http://www.airenet.com/canadianblondes/feedlot.html

That's from about 15 years ago now though.

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Postby Chuckie » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:35 pm

doc, you ever been east? sounds like you have a hard-on for something....the woods out there are not a bit like they are in the mountains of colorado.

calm down--some people aren't tree-huggers, ok? can we just raise beef cattle?

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Crosses

Postby George » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:34 am

In the 60s I raised black grade cows as that is what I was shown - - - then I returned from the Marines in 1971 and started farming on my own and purchased some registered Angus cows - - - I soon started crossing with Charlois bulls and feed them out myself - - - I also started going into tenn and georgia and buying calves and feeding part of them and reselling most to other feeders in the area. When a good market formed for registered Charlois I moved my herd to that and have had nothing but registered Charlois for over a decade and recieved a good premium for them. That market seems to be leaving and the smokey calves are bringing a large premium so I am going to breed my girls to registered Angus this year and see if I can't tap that market - - - I love the large frames and millking ability of the Charlois although I will be the first to admit they eat a lot of feed. This year I ended up with 9% of these big girls having tiwns and the twins grow great - - - I feel the reason for the twins is the better minerals and feed that we did not have the ability to feed several decades ago. Are the Smokey calves the best for your needs? I feel they are for me but then I have never had 100 cows at a time - - - normaly I have about 50 to 60 - - - available pasture is always changing around here as subdivisions take ground but then marginal row crop ground is taken out of row crops and put back into pasture and in many cases it is great pasture.
Are many of you experencing more twins than in the past??? My vet feels that limiting high protien feed for the last two weeks before breeding stimulates great conseption rates and possibly more twins - - - this does not mean starve them but do not " flush " them. Any ideas / I would like to get my twins up to 20% or better but I don't really expect to achieve this - - - if you don't set goals you will not improve and if you stay in your comfort level and the young pups coming on improve then you will find yourself falling back.
One of the bad side effects of the better feeds and mineral we are seeing here is that the deer are having most all twins and 5% or so are triplets - - - a single fawn on a doe is almost not seen in this area and the deer are becoming terrible pests - - - but then the do good Bambi lovers hate it when you open your land to hunters - - - I encourage hunting but require my hunters to take as many does as the law allows if they want to come back next year. I have been doing this for over 20 years but the deer are still gaining. It is not uncommon to sit on my front porch in the evening and see 30 to 40 deer competing with my cattle for feed.

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Faster horses
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Postby Faster horses » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:33 pm

George, you will find that discussed under "Mineral Costs". And yes, removing cattle from high protein pastures two weeks before breeding is recommended.


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