Ranchers.net Bull Session

What do you want your seedstock producer to do to help you?

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
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Northern Rancher
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Postby Northern Rancher » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:21 pm

Athletic bulls rarely get hurt breeding-they are on and off effortlessly not alot of slobbery awkward foreplay while their buddies lines them up. We've had ton plus bulls breed 400 lb heifer calves so you know those bulls were good on their feet.

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Postby frenchie » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:56 pm

Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Alabama wrote:I am confused. Everybody wants hard bulls that have been raised in poor pastures and made to tough it out for the first 2 years of there lives. Then, when they go to the bull sale, they want a bull that is in body condition 7 or 8. You just can’t have it both ways.
I wean my calves at 6 to 7 months old and supplement their grass or hay with some sort of energy and protein feed. They stay on good mineral and develop to their full potential. I try to maintain at least a body condition of seven to make sure that they grow good bones and are in good flesh when they are turned out. The last thing you want is a stunted bull that will not be able to breed for many years to come.

I vaccinate with One Shot, Vision 7 and Cattlemaster 4 VL5 and boost it 5 weeks after the first shot and then boost it as a yearling and again when they are two years old.

I expect the buyer to leave them in with the cows for 3 months and when he pulls them out, they should be in body condition 4.5 to 5. They should feed him while he is off the cows and have him in good shape when the next season comes around. You can’t buy a yearling and turn him in with 50 open cows and not expect him to lose weight even if you can feed him a little along. He is still growing and needs to be cared for while working.



Kit Pharo


...............is still in the stone age.



That maybe ,but he is a still ahead of you...

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Mike
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Postby Mike » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:02 pm

frenchie wrote:
Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Alabama wrote:I am confused. Everybody wants hard bulls that have been raised in poor pastures and made to tough it out for the first 2 years of there lives. Then, when they go to the bull sale, they want a bull that is in body condition 7 or 8. You just can’t have it both ways.
I wean my calves at 6 to 7 months old and supplement their grass or hay with some sort of energy and protein feed. They stay on good mineral and develop to their full potential. I try to maintain at least a body condition of seven to make sure that they grow good bones and are in good flesh when they are turned out. The last thing you want is a stunted bull that will not be able to breed for many years to come.

I vaccinate with One Shot, Vision 7 and Cattlemaster 4 VL5 and boost it 5 weeks after the first shot and then boost it as a yearling and again when they are two years old.

I expect the buyer to leave them in with the cows for 3 months and when he pulls them out, they should be in body condition 4.5 to 5. They should feed him while he is off the cows and have him in good shape when the next season comes around. You can’t buy a yearling and turn him in with 50 open cows and not expect him to lose weight even if you can feed him a little along. He is still growing and needs to be cared for while working.



Kit Pharo


...............is still in the stone age.



That maybe ,but he is a still ahead of you...


A still ahead of me? How would you know? :wink:
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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Postby frenchie » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:02 pm

BRG wrote:What exaclty do you mean when you say"Kit Pharo"



What I mean is that Kit is doing what a lot people said can,t be done..Produce forage raised bulls that work for like minded commercial cattleman.
.

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Postby frenchie » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:05 pm

Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Alabama wrote:I am confused. Everybody wants hard bulls that have been raised in poor pastures and made to tough it out for the first 2 years of there lives. Then, when they go to the bull sale, they want a bull that is in body condition 7 or 8. You just can’t have it both ways.
I wean my calves at 6 to 7 months old and supplement their grass or hay with some sort of energy and protein feed. They stay on good mineral and develop to their full potential. I try to maintain at least a body condition of seven to make sure that they grow good bones and are in good flesh when they are turned out. The last thing you want is a stunted bull that will not be able to breed for many years to come.

I vaccinate with One Shot, Vision 7 and Cattlemaster 4 VL5 and boost it 5 weeks after the first shot and then boost it as a yearling and again when they are two years old.

I expect the buyer to leave them in with the cows for 3 months and when he pulls them out, they should be in body condition 4.5 to 5. They should feed him while he is off the cows and have him in good shape when the next season comes around. You can’t buy a yearling and turn him in with 50 open cows and not expect him to lose weight even if you can feed him a little along. He is still growing and needs to be cared for while working.



Kit Pharo


...............is still in the stone age.



That maybe ,but he is a still ahead of you...


A still ahead of me? How would you know? :wink:


Very easy those that can,t compete, critcize those that can. :wink:

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Postby Mike » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:28 pm

frenchie wrote:
Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Alabama wrote:I am confused. Everybody wants hard bulls that have been raised in poor pastures and made to tough it out for the first 2 years of there lives. Then, when they go to the bull sale, they want a bull that is in body condition 7 or 8. You just can’t have it both ways.
I wean my calves at 6 to 7 months old and supplement their grass or hay with some sort of energy and protein feed. They stay on good mineral and develop to their full potential. I try to maintain at least a body condition of seven to make sure that they grow good bones and are in good flesh when they are turned out. The last thing you want is a stunted bull that will not be able to breed for many years to come.

I vaccinate with One Shot, Vision 7 and Cattlemaster 4 VL5 and boost it 5 weeks after the first shot and then boost it as a yearling and again when they are two years old.

I expect the buyer to leave them in with the cows for 3 months and when he pulls them out, they should be in body condition 4.5 to 5. They should feed him while he is off the cows and have him in good shape when the next season comes around. You can’t buy a yearling and turn him in with 50 open cows and not expect him to lose weight even if you can feed him a little along. He is still growing and needs to be cared for while working.



Kit Pharo


...............is still in the stone age.



That maybe ,but he is a still ahead of you...


A still ahead of me? How would you know? :wink:


Very easy those that can,t compete, critcize those that can. :wink:


Like I asked. How would you know I can't compete? Different market, my buyers are aggressive cattlemen. Don't want to compete with the "stone age" bulls. It's no challenge. :wink:
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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Postby frenchie » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:36 pm

Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Mike wrote:
frenchie wrote:
Alabama wrote:I am confused. Everybody wants hard bulls that have been raised in poor pastures and made to tough it out for the first 2 years of there lives. Then, when they go to the bull sale, they want a bull that is in body condition 7 or 8. You just can’t have it both ways.
I wean my calves at 6 to 7 months old and supplement their grass or hay with some sort of energy and protein feed. They stay on good mineral and develop to their full potential. I try to maintain at least a body condition of seven to make sure that they grow good bones and are in good flesh when they are turned out. The last thing you want is a stunted bull that will not be able to breed for many years to come.

I vaccinate with One Shot, Vision 7 and Cattlemaster 4 VL5 and boost it 5 weeks after the first shot and then boost it as a yearling and again when they are two years old.

I expect the buyer to leave them in with the cows for 3 months and when he pulls them out, they should be in body condition 4.5 to 5. They should feed him while he is off the cows and have him in good shape when the next season comes around. You can’t buy a yearling and turn him in with 50 open cows and not expect him to lose weight even if you can feed him a little along. He is still growing and needs to be cared for while working.



Kit Pharo


...............is still in the stone age.



That maybe ,but he is a still ahead of you...


A still ahead of me? How would you know? :wink:


Very easy those that can,t compete, critcize those that can. :wink:


Like I asked. How would you know I can't compete? Different market, my buyers are aggressive cattlemen. Don't want to compete with the "stone age" bulls. It's no challenge. :wink:


Whats matter Mike you scared that ,Pharo might show you up.Tell me are your buyers working for their cattle or are their cattle working for them.

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Postby BRG » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:50 pm

Frenchie, just a quick question, have you ever seen the Pharo Cattle? Becaues I have, and it is not the typ of cattle any of my customers want. We forage raise all of our 2 year old bulls and they are very easy keeping, but still have some growth. Our cows definetely work for us. We winter graze and don't give them any supplement at all. If they can't hack it they are gone.

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Postby Jinglebob » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:31 pm

BRG
Send me your email by pm please. You sound like the kind of cattleman I want tobuy bulls from. Thanks
Toda via estoy aqui. I am still here.
website www.dennisranch.com

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Postby Denny » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:03 pm

Mike wrote:
Denny wrote:HONEST CATTLE thats what they can do for me if they hide the feed tanks over the hill then say they dont grain the cows or hide the creep feeders.To me thats not honest.

If your cattle are the right kind they will sell themselves but you need to offer the type of bulls that will garner top money with no strings always remember your a rancher not a banker.Usally the payment plans are hard to collect on and will wreck friendships faster than anything.

Also how sharp are their knives do they cut any calves there are some out there that think every bull calf is a herd bull just because he looks good on paper doesnt make em good..


Denny, I agree with you for the most part. There is a trade-off between developing good pasture-hard bulls and developing them to their top genetic potential. There is usually some point in the development stage that the seedstock producer has to put 'em on some feed, might be due to seasonal changes, drought periods, etc. Feeding is not always dishonest.

What I wish the commercial bull buyer would do is get more interested in watching the bulls as they develop. How can anyone POSSIBLY pick a bull as a 2-year old and tell what the calves will look like? Most of the bull buyers down here market calves as weaned or pre-conditioned. Yet they only see the bulls they buy as 2-year olds.

I have kept a couple of calves that I probably should'nt have at weaning, put them on feed in the fall when there is no grazing yet and they turned out to be the best looking of the bunch. When the buyer mentioned that the calves weren't what he expected, I reminded him that when he bought them I explained to him that those bulls would have made him more money if he had fed the calves vs. selling as weanlings.

Point is; many bull buyers go to a sale an hour beforehand, pick out the biggest, thickest ones in the sale, pay too much, and then complain.
No one bull can be "all things to all people", but if he is the best looking at 2 years, they think he is.

My most satisfied customers have been the one's that give me a call and ask me to deliver them a bull without ever seeing him. It takes some homework on my part, but no one knows a bull better than the man that raised him. Being honest doesn't hurt either.


So what you are saying is the bulls grew slow till weaning then split a hide after that point.Around here most everyone sells feeder calves so You would have just lost a customer or more likely more than one.Bad reputations travel FAST I would cut bulls in the spring then in the fall cut some more then in the spring cut any that suck nothing worse than a REGISTERED SEEDSTOCK producer with a DULL KNIFE.. :wink: :wink:

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Northern Rancher
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Postby Northern Rancher » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:08 pm

Here's a fun thing to do-buy about a 100 of those dollar scalpels then drive around mailing them to purebred guys from their biggest competitors home towns-makes life more interesting lol.

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Postby frenchie » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:16 am

BRG wrote:Frenchie, just a quick question, have you ever seen the Pharo Cattle? Becaues I have, and it is not the typ of cattle any of my customers want. We forage raise all of our 2 year old bulls and they are very easy keeping, but still have some growth. Our cows definetely work for us. We winter graze and don't give them any supplement at all. If they can't hack it they are gone.



Yes I have...do I think Pharo knows it all of course not. There are other people that produce good cattle on forage as well.He was just a well known example.I have a friend who has used his stock and is happy.But it all depends want you are trying to do.


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