Ranchers.net Bull Session

Breed Identity

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
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Mike
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Postby Mike » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:45 pm

Yup
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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PPRM
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Postby PPRM » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:02 pm

Now,

Those are recommended, I am saying minimum required. For Breed Identity, it would be too costly to have too many traits independently measured. What I am saying is pick a few that are most important to the breed,

Pat
The difference between a rut and a grave is the depth

PPRM

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sw
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Postby sw » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:49 pm

If you guys don't mind, I'll put a nichels worth in here. I think your all right. As Mike says, the good ones will sell to commercial breeders, the rest will be traded between registered breeders, for example, EXT was used so extensively, I even used him on heifers, but as soon as the commercial guys had one of those heifers clean his clock, you couldn't give those bulls away, but due to the registered guys advertisements, the damage had already been done. Pat you are also right that maybe the associations should put a stop to some of this stuff but they won't, they want members, they can only hope that the bad stuff does not sell, it would hurt the breed and the association. That is one of the reasons that I really like the Gelbvieh people. The judge at shows is given the EPD's of every animal shown, and the judge is given a list of what the GV breed is suppossed to be known for, milk, maternal, muscle and growth and that is what the class should be judged on. That is why I use Angus for marbling, calving ease, mature size and the Gelbviehs for growth, feedlot gain, maternal and attitude. Crossed these work great as they cover up each breeds weaknesses. then use a terminal Char on them, money in the bank. This years steers: Angus sired profit $151/ head (they don't gain as good, you still sell by the pound); GV sired $161/head profit (they don't marble as well but they gain); Char on the AN x GV, $171 profit/head, they have it all. I pick my AI sires on what the breed is suppossed to do, Angus have to marble very high and have moderate frame and calving ease, Gelbviehs have to have growth and muscle and a good disposition and the Chars just grow. I have not used a show winner for any reason, if they are advertised to the eighteenth degree I run away from them and I am now producing high choice carcasses with .1 inch backfat, 15 inch eyes, YG 1 and yielding 65% plus. Breeds should do what they are suppossed to do, not try to be like evrybody else, you will lose the complimentarity of each breed in these crosses. Now I will get off of my box. :roll:
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE. FREEDOM IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY THE BRAVE SO THE FREE CAN BE FREE.

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PPRM
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Postby PPRM » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:29 am

sw,

I saw your cows in the other thread. I liked the look well enuff to take notice of anything you have to say....

I really agree with wht you are sayiing on the crossbreeding... One other thing I like is Angus x Simmental, also good growth and milk.....I agree with the Charlais being a good terminal cross.. The ones I have bought I tend to get a lot of Choice ones...I think bottom line is I can get more by crossing to a breed that has charactritics faster than by trying to select from my top end that is closest and working that way. I also go for high acc when looking over highly promoted new bulls.

What you describe is what I am shooting for as far as perfomance. On the Yeild, are you figuring that on delivered weight, shrunk weight.....It is something we throw out there a lot and make assumptions on how it is figured....

Hmmm...someday I might make a trip to Billings from Oregon if you have some cows for sale.....it is also easier to buy from someone that has a good program than to try to select from cows you don't know. Goes back to what I said about buying bulls from a commercial guy that has a program you like, the economy way of doing things and not getting into trouble....Heck, it would be worth the trip just to talk about your program some more even if I didn't come home with anything..

So chime in your nickels worth anytime sw..........

Oh, I am realistic about the breed organizations...what should be donne and what will be done are two different things.....but it doesn't take long for credibility to pay for itself
The difference between a rut and a grave is the depth



PPRM

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Northern Rancher
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Postby Northern Rancher » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:50 am

sw glad to meet a fellow EXT hater-they are just like quaill-I found them a bit on the frail side too-We crossbreed Angus/Hereford and South Devon here. I bought a South Devon bull at the Midland Bull Test-(before Leo revealed his dark side) and he nicked perfectly with our black and baldie cows-we sell on the grid too and though the upper limits are up there we usually end up with 1350 weight finished cattle-remember the KPH isn't included up in Canada. Our average grid premium is at .12/lb worked back a live basis.


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