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Custom wintering cows

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LCP
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Custom wintering cows

Postby LCP » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:53 pm

I've got a whole pile of carryover hay, as well as a decent crop again this year. We run our cows on cornstalks and stockpiled grass as long as possible. Last winter was pretty dang close to not having to feed any hay, other than alfalfa for protein and a few bales during bad weather. So, I am figuring conservatively that I could winter 150-200 cows for 90 days and still have plenty for myself. I've got grass/alfalfa mix, slough grass (reed canary mostly), a little prairie hay, and some oats & peas (putting it up now, should be real nice hay). I don't want to sell the hay and export the nutrients - I'd rather sell the hay and sell my time, keeping the nutrients in the field. They would be run separately from my own cows, so biosecurity should be ok.

A few questions I need to answer:
What's a fair way to price the hay? Is it worth less since it is staying on the place?
What's fair yardage, considering I would probably be bale grazing a lot of it? I may need to use a bale processor on the rougher hay (never used one before, but would like to not have big dead spots in the field). Does any of this matter, or should it just be the "going rate" for yardage in a drylot?
If I'm bale grazing, waste would be higher than if I ground it and fed a TMR. I don't think it would be fair to sell the feed by the ton because of that. I'm thinking maybe weigh the cows on the truck, then figure expected consumption by body weight and charge accordingly. Ensure a certain level of nutrition by fecal samples and monitor BCS. Perhaps just figure a flat per-day fee based on body weight and average temperature? Or is there another fair way to price it?

I figure I should start looking for a customer now, while folks are putting up hay and maybe buying for winter. Figured if I wait until fall, many guys will already have their hay lined up and I'll be too late to talk them into the deal. :)

Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby WB » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:56 am

Two things I would consider. First of all we haven't had a bad winter for a while and we are do for one. I mean the kind where you feed your cows from Nov. 15th on. Secondly I would price my hay by the ton as it is the fairest way to do it. And I will add, know who you are working with as there are plenty that don't pay for services rendered.

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby Amo » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:48 am

Well, if your say leasing ground you might be getting your winter needs lined up in May or June. I think unless its a yearly deal, most people don't buy hay until they need it, or just before the first of the year.

I know a bale processor will cost some money. If you do some looking around I bet your can find a good bale king or haybuster for 5-10K or maybe less. Cows will clean it up better & you will still have the manure. One guy in my area did the bale grazing. Made half bales, put on no twine. First year it worked awesome. Cows cleaned it up very well, with zero feeding cost. Second year all he had was a mess. Do what you want, but Id say in my example all the money he saved the first year was a double loss the second!

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby PPRM » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:14 am

Amo wrote:Well, if your say leasing ground you might be getting your winter needs lined up in May or June. I think unless its a yearly deal, most people don't buy hay until they need it, or just before the first of the year.

I know a bale processor will cost some money. If you do some looking around I bet your can find a good bale king or haybuster for 5-10K or maybe less. Cows will clean it up better & you will still have the manure. One guy in my area did the bale grazing. Made half bales, put on no twine. First year it worked awesome. Cows cleaned it up very well, with zero feeding cost. Second year all he had was a mess. Do what you want, but Id say in my example all the money he saved the first year was a double loss the second!



I used to want a bale processor to tear the hay up before it hits the supreme mixer and mixes with silage. I used a roto cut baler a little. I was very impressed. Why not cut it while baling?

I am looking to have a guy winter my late spring calvers this year.
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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby Amo » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:40 pm

To be honest, there aren't very many balers around here that have the pre cut option. I think NH is the only baler that made a machine with that option. I haven't seen it offered on any of the newer balers. I really haven't payed attention to it either. I visited with either an owner or sales person IDR about the pre cut option on a baler. They sure didn't say to much about it. Whats your experiences with it?

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby PPRM » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:31 pm

Amo wrote:To be honest, there aren't very many balers around here that have the pre cut option. I think NH is the only baler that made a machine with that option. I haven't seen it offered on any of the newer balers. I really haven't payed attention to it either. I visited with either an owner or sales person IDR about the pre cut option on a baler. They sure didn't say to much about it. Whats your experiences with it?



I'm assuming you are talking to me.

NH certainly does. A good friend is the sales manager for a 8 or 9 store dealership. He confirmed they had the option when I was describing my Claas. I am pretty certain any company that also makes silage balers hs the option in its lineup.

It looks really good. I haven't fed enough to know how bug of a difference it makes and haven't run any through the Supreme yet.
The difference between a rut and a grave is the depth



PPRM

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby Denny » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:07 am

I can see trucking to be a big factor for a short period like 90 days it better be a short haul.
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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby VB RANCH » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:32 am

when we did that, we priced our hay what it would cost to replace it, plus yardage, they bought the salt @ mineral they wanted to feed

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby Amo » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:24 am

PPRM wrote:
Amo wrote:To be honest, there aren't very many balers around here that have the pre cut option. I think NH is the only baler that made a machine with that option. I haven't seen it offered on any of the newer balers. I really haven't payed attention to it either. I visited with either an owner or sales person IDR about the pre cut option on a baler. They sure didn't say to much about it. Whats your experiences with it?



I'm assuming you are talking to me.

NH certainly does. A good friend is the sales manager for a 8 or 9 store dealership. He confirmed they had the option when I was describing my Claas. I am pretty certain any company that also makes silage balers hs the option in its lineup.

It looks really good. I haven't fed enough to know how bug of a difference it makes and haven't run any through the Supreme yet.


Yes, a silage baler would have them. A silage baler costs quite a bit more. Never priced one, just what Ive been told. Guess around this area where a very big amount of hay baled they aren't hardly around. Of course everyone has a processor or bale spinner to feed with.

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby LCP » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:13 pm

Ok, so I'm thinking the bale processor is a good idea given the amount of old carryover hay I want to feed. We've got a local dealer that handles Haybusters. New ones cost about $20k, used are half that. I'm thinking used. They've got a 2650 that looks like it's seen a fair amount of use and a 2660 in nice shape. They also have a new 2665 Shortcut model. Is there any real big advantage to any of these models? I'd probably try to find a entry-level model to start with until I figure out what I really need.

I've got a NH T5.115 front wheel assist tractor, 105 HP. Is that enough to run a processor?

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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby Big Muddy rancher » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:32 pm

I ran a 2650 with a 7420 JD, lots of power. I run a Vermeer BPX9000 now. Very similar machines,do a good job of blowing out the dust and laying out a good windrow to feed. I like the hydraulic deflector.
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Re: Custom wintering cows

Postby littlejoe » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:54 pm

I'd balk at spending a buncha $$ to help sell my hay.

I'd do some testing to know what I had, balance the ration and feed some bovatec with the mineral.

I've got an $800 haybuster processor I put 400$ worth of iron and welding into that works just fine---on the rare occasions I use it. Shouldn't be allowed near alfalfa or peas, for starters...if it's dusty or crappy hay, it does help.


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