Page 1 of 2

Cattle Breeds

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:16 pm
by aspiring farmer
Hello! I'm a highschool senior who hopes to be a farmer one day. I have a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help me with ^_^

Question #1: I've been doing a lot of research about livestock, and have read over and over that heritage breeds produce better quality meat. Is this true in your experience?

In my research, I have come across three breeds of cattle that really peak my interest: Dexter, Galloway, and Beef Devon. I'm looking to raise cattle for beef, and I would be raising them on pasture. Keeping these things in mind, if any of y'all have experience with any of those breeds, I have some questions for you:

Question #2: Is there any way that their smaller size could be a downside?

Question #3: Are any of these breeds well known for high quality meat? If so, what qualities are the meat known for?

Question #4: Is it possible to raise cattle that do well in cold weather in a hot climate, and visa versa?

Question #5: Will a dual purpose breed (such as the Dexter) produce a lower quantity and/or quality of meat than a breed that is only raised for beef (such as the Beef Devon), or will it be about the same quantity and/or quality?

Thank you in advance!!!

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:26 am
by Brad S
1) I'm not familiar with the term "heritage breed" Most breeds go way back, but I'm not sure how the term is being used. Strategic cross breeding will out produce straight bred - been proven six ways to Sunday.

2) colder climates favor a larger mature animal - frame 5 cattle can survive about anything. It's plain old frame creep. Who wants to cull the biggest calves in the pen? It's pretty hard to do.

3) cattle in hot and cold? Cattle are pretty adaptive. 110 to -40, cattle do that ok. Sure, pied cows adapt to heat better and British cattle the cold. I'd say the longhorn is the most adaptable cow there is, but they don't fit the cooler very well.

If you use the cab grid as the definition of quality, I think you can conclude in general terms that dual purpose cattle would decrease marbling and increase yield. So a branveigh (brown Swiss)might help a 1950s angus hit the grid with yield or not offer enough marbling to hit can by itself.

If you learn how to navigate the Marc search engine, you can find out almost anything.

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:38 am
by Denny
Basically there are two kinds of cattle in the world Black angus Cattle and all the rest..

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:44 am
by ND Farmer
One doesn't know what good cattle are until you sell them. If you make money they're good cattle. Don't care what color they are. IMHO.

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:43 am
by rancherfred
"Heritage" breeds go along with organic, all natural and locally produced. For some reason there is a romantic attachment to nostalgia that precludes dispassionate thought and judgement. Things are not necessarily better because they belong to a previous time or generation. There are a lot of good reasons for what we do today and it is not immoral or wrong to produce beef as we are doing today. Those that would promote organic, or heritage breeds or any of the other things that are essentially a rejection of science and progress have a strong tendency to do it in terms of morality. I saw it called "virtue signalling" and I think that is a very apt description. The promoters of these production systems are essentially today's pharisees.

There are correct answers to your questions, but what you came here looking for are essentially opinions. I believe the data you are looking for would be MARC data and that is something you will have to do on your own. If you want to utilize a heritage breed because you are interested in their history or their novelty that is entirely up to you, but they are not inherently superior to other breeds by virtue of them being "heritage". Keep in mind that the reason that they are considered heritage is because a sufficiently large enough number of producers did not see any value in the breed to make them a very minor breed. That means that enough people judged them to be inferior so as to force them into a minority role.

You can make any decision you choose to here, but there are a few considerations that you ought to keep in mind. Breeding stock is going to be very difficult to come by. One thing you will quickly come to see is that a minor breed like the ones you have listed are going to be very difficult to find bulls that aren't related or by necessity highly inbred. Second, you should not expect to be paid more for your beef simply because they are a heritage breed. People like to say they will buy quality, and will pay more for it, but unless you have somehow managed to capture a high end market, they will only pay more up to a point. You are going to need to be paid a lot more for your product if you are going to pursue it with minority breeds. That will be very difficult to establish.

If you like the breeds simply because of the novelty well fine, but there is nothing inherently superior in them due to their "heritage" nature. You could do everything you are talking about doing with one of the major breeds, they just wouldn't be as novel. As to meat quality, look up the MARC data and start there.

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:36 pm
by Traveler
:agree: with rancherfred

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:10 pm
by Brad S
Denny's point is well taken. There are 2 breeds and the second one doesn't count.
The angus gelbveigh cross is a hell of a cross.

I see Fred how heritage is used. Like those fat little angus cattle from back when fat was literally more valuable than lean.

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:34 pm
by gcreekrch

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:59 am
by PPRM
There's good and bad ones in all breeds. As far as what produces the best beef, what is the source of your info???? Is it the breeder?

Size matters. your first premium is weight. That being said, my customer (Yes, I direct Market) seems to fall into a 700-750 lb carcass. When fat cattle brought $2.50/lb, my premium direct marketing didn't cover the weight difference. Now that they are closer to $1.90, the premium certainly does.

I also don't trust that we will always not see a discount for carcasses above 950 pounds (I am going by memory here. But, I think this spring my grid didn't dock me for carcasses until they were over 1,000 lbs from Tyson).

Where are you located?

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:00 pm
by littlejoe
Denny wrote:Basically there are two kinds of cattle in the world Black angus Cattle and all the rest..


Well, maybe 3, if you count the Holsteins stuck into them to make them about a foot taller--and put a little white on their bellies......not sure which one gets credit for the genetic defects, hips that fall apart with first owie, or wonderful dispositions.....? :cowboy:

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:22 pm
by Silver
Denny wrote:Basically there are two kinds of cattle in the world Black angus Cattle and all the rest..


Hard to argue with that. Steer clear of the Black Angus and go with "all the rest".

Re: Cattle Breeds

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:44 pm
by Amo
rancherfred wrote:"Heritage" breeds go along with organic, all natural and locally produced. For some reason there is a romantic attachment to nostalgia that precludes dispassionate thought and judgement. Things are not necessarily better because they belong to a previous time or generation. There are a lot of good reasons for what we do today and it is not immoral or wrong to produce beef as we are doing today. Those that would promote organic, or heritage breeds or any of the other things that are essentially a rejection of science and progress have a strong tendency to do it in terms of morality. I saw it called "virtue signalling" and I think that is a very apt description. The promoters of these production systems are essentially today's pharisees.

There are correct answers to your questions, but what you came here looking for are essentially opinions. I believe the data you are looking for would be MARC data and that is something you will have to do on your own. If you want to utilize a heritage breed because you are interested in their history or their novelty that is entirely up to you, but they are not inherently superior to other breeds by virtue of them being "heritage". Keep in mind that the reason that they are considered heritage is because a sufficiently large enough number of producers did not see any value in the breed to make them a very minor breed. That means that enough people judged them to be inferior so as to force them into a minority role.

You can make any decision you choose to here, but there are a few considerations that you ought to keep in mind. Breeding stock is going to be very difficult to come by. One thing you will quickly come to see is that a minor breed like the ones you have listed are going to be very difficult to find bulls that aren't related or by necessity highly inbred. Second, you should not expect to be paid more for your beef simply because they are a heritage breed. People like to say they will buy quality, and will pay more for it, but unless you have somehow managed to capture a high end market, they will only pay more up to a point. You are going to need to be paid a lot more for your product if you are going to pursue it with minority breeds. That will be very difficult to establish.

If you like the breeds simply because of the novelty well fine, but there is nothing inherently superior in them due to their "heritage" nature. You could do everything you are talking about doing with one of the major breeds, they just wouldn't be as novel. As to meat quality, look up the MARC data and start there.


There's a fair bit of good common sense information there. Instead of reading your animal science books, Id suggest figuring out what your overall marketing plan is. Then see what sells best in your area with that type of marketing plan.

Im going to be honest....organic, hormone free, non-gmo, etc are tag lines that crawl under my skin. If you have a market where you can sell heritage livestock, and be profitable....by all means go for it! I know a lot of young people that get nastolgic about what ever buzz word gives a warm and fuzzy feeling. If you bust your butt and don't make anything the warm and fuzzy feeling of organic disappears pretty quick. I like to have an open mind. I have read some blogs people write about say grass fed, organic, drug free etc. They say its just totally awesome. You will make money hand over fist...so on and so on. If you do this you peace will come to the middle east and Kum jung Eile (north korea....i cant spell) will die. The thing is these guys promoting these topics are also the ones selling breeding stock. Im guessing you your a Senior in HS, you have ran across a used car salesman or two.....same applies to this. Fads come and go. Look up artichokes or ostriches. Those are 2 of them that came through here. The people selling the seed or breeding stock made all the money. Ostriches were healty meat, sell the feathers & hides, etc etc etc. Well if flopped like a walrus!

Here is what Im saying. Your animal science book will say this about this breed and that about that breed. As mentioined above all of the "heritage" breeds have been here for at least 100 years. For various reasons they didn't pass the "sniff test". Im not saying that they don't have a place. Just for what ever reason they got bypassed. Black Angus and "others" got brought up. Angus has a vast selection of genetics. You can have grass fed to supreme feedlot preformance. There is a lot of advantages to the breed like calving vigor etc. Angus has done an awesome job of marketing, or a used car salesman. Other breeds do have advantages. Cross breeding does pay. I talked to a researcher at UNL about heterosis. He said, on your first cross or F1 you get 14# of extra gain at weaning over a straight bred. Now a 3 way cross, is a bigger gain in heterosis. You have to look at your marketing plan. For instance with me I use Hereford on Angus. I get a percentage of red white face calves, say 10%. Now in my area, if they aren't black you get docked. Also smaller groups don't sell as high as bigger. So I have to factor those negatives against the postives into my marketing plan. Cross bred cows will be in the heard longer so maternially if Im adding heifers I need to look at that. I still have to consider my marketing plan. I fully intended to buy a Hereford bull this year. Then after I learned Id only get an extra 14# and factored in the sorts/docks, I decided to stay black, since I had AIed Hereford for enough years to get replacement females. A guy up here was doing some "outside of the box" type stuff. He was needing to sell some scottish highlander calves. 2 sale barns turned him away. Black Angus has done a very good job of marketing. Im not saying that they are superior over all the other breeds. They are the easiest to market. Your banker does't care what has the best meat. He cares as to what will keep you out of debt!

I don't mean to bash your dream. By all means, Im not an all Angus type of guy. They are the most versitle breed with genetics that can fit into a lot of marketing programs. Also easier to change gears if you want to. You mentioned smaller frame. Say your wanting to do the grass fed thing. Then you decided its not working, you can more easily change direction of your heard than say you have an off the wall breed like Dexter. Especially if you chose to sell the cows and buy different cows. Say you buy a Tesla car. 2 years down the road your going to have a harder time finding a buyer that will pay close to what you have spent on your Tesla vs say a Chevy Impalla. Say you buy 10 Dexter heifers for $10,000. Say you change your mind 2 years down the road, right when these cows are in the prime of their life. They should of appreiated (gone up) in value. Your going to have a hard time finding someone willing to pay $1200 for them cows. Im not saying its imposable, just harder. You need to consider that. If you have a niche market where you can sell your product I wouldn't be scared of doing it. Just make sure you have a market. There is a reason the breeds your interested in didn't gain popularity. Some is marketing or following the crowd. Most of it isn't.

Good Luck!