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Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

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littlejoe
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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby littlejoe » Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:53 pm

And a nother thang: if them lakes are draining into the Ogallala---shouldn't they be getting shallower?

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Amo » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:01 pm

Sandhills boy wrote:I will make no bones about it I don't like the dam things. I could somewhat get around it if they were a benefit. They are not and serve no purpose, but for a few people at the top to take tax dollars from the rest of us. It is one big pyramid scheme made up by the government with tax dollars. If it was also use for my local needs would make a difference. It is not it will all go out of state to people who don't have to look at them or deal with the infrastructure needs. ( Well It is fly over country we will fill it full of windmills not enough people there to stop us), that is how I think most of those so call experts think about it. We were to have the major power line come across us, we went to the meeting to find out the facts. NPPD was asked then if it was for wind chargers and they said no. So we were lied to then about 3-4 years ago. So how many lies are being told now.
I live not far west from those in Ainsworth,( my son plays baseball that way a lot) and you can drive by them about any day you want and half will not be turning, just wonder how that pays, guess they are not wearing out! Ainsworth is totally different soil, they grow crops there not soap weeds. :D End of my rant. I do feel better you all have good day


Just for clarification, Im not totally in favor of them either. Im not totally against them. Just the initial post dealing with a concrete foundation contaminating the water table just didn't make sense. Them type of comments bug me I guess. I also agree there are certain soil types that wouldn't support certain type of projects. Weather thats a pad to launch a space shuttle or a wind tower. Im not an engineer, so Im not going there. Being through Grant county and Brown county, ya....a few row crops are grown in Brown (Ainsworth), mostly north & east of town. There is some difference, but not much IMHO

As far as the R project....the major power line going across is concerned, the meeting I attended they said the main reason for construction was to diversify the distribution system of getting power from Gerald Gentleman station (coal plant) to help feed the power grid more efficently during peak demand. Lots of irrigation in northeastern Neberaska & the only way to transfer power to eastern Nebraska from Gerald Gentleman was along the I 80 coriador. Plus the major ice storm in 2006 significtantly hindered this distribution system. With 2 distribution systems having significant distance between the 2, would help mediate ice storms & other weather issues. At least at the meeting I attended, they also stated that the R project would also help to facilitate any potential wind development in s.e. Cherry county. Which is basically same place. I distinctly remember that comment thinking what a poor access area to put up a wind farm. Speaker stated that research had been conducted that showed s.e. Cherry county had good wind speed and would have major potential if there was a way to get that power from the farm into the grid.

I agree, the power is going to be sold to the south west power pool. I agree its subsidised to the hilt, but isn't every major project....Hoover dam, all of them on the Missouri river, Three mile island. I visited with someone on facebook a while back. Yes he was in favor of wind power. No clue where he got his numbers, but he stated wind could generate more kilowatts than solar. Weather he got his data from independant research or a pro wind power web site IDK. Im not taking his word as the bible truth, just repeating what he said.

The R project is plotted to go roughly 4 miles south of me. Thing is, if power is short who do you think is going to get it. My money is on Denver, Omaha, Phoenix, etc. not Theadford, Whitman, or Hyanniss. Personally Id rather get an easement payment and let that power go to Phoenix, than be bull headed and some day have to deal with rolling blackouts. Make sure your easement payment is high enough to compensate for any erosion issues from construction that some are worried about etc. From Hwy 281 east in 2012 there were rolling blackouts. If your not in favor of it, ya it kinda sucks. Guess Id rather have a I think a person has to look at the big picture. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Cowpuncher » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:38 am

While we are on the subject of government subsidies, we ought to recall the REA (Rural Electrical AdministratIpn)
from the 1940's (I guess). I grew up in the 1930's and 1940's and I was 10 or 11 years old before we had electricity.
We used kerosene lamps and lanterns to do chores and homework.

We didn't have anyone whining about unsightly power lines or government subsidies then. Just now. How many
folks on Ranchers have the convienence of electricity now as a result of REA?

I understand the economics of wind and solar power, but who can predict the outcome of these projects, say
in 25 or 50 years.

CP
Last edited by Cowpuncher on Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
If it was easy, someone would have already done it.

littlejoe
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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby littlejoe » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:13 am

newagtalk.com has got a lot of discussions under questions for guys with wind turbine leases on crop talk

seems mostly against

this guy sure is

InvEnergy?? There's no way anyone should be signing anything with this company. We were supportive of their project here in Vermilion County, Illinois, and things seemed OK up until they turned on the turbines. We immediately had severe sleep deprivation as soon as the turbines became operational. We only lasted 11 months and abandoned our home. It is still for sale ever since May, 2014. There are 21 families with sleep/health issues from InvEnergy's turbines here. The turbines near my home are 1665' and 2225' away from our house. I suggest you go to the internet and type in "wind turbine home abandonment" and "Shirley Wind Turbines Declared Health Hazard" and "Judge orders shutdown of Falmouth Wind Turbines."
I regret supporting InvEnergy's project here, and now I find myself helping other communities avoid turbines. Livingston County Illinois and Sanilac County Michigan have successfully kicked InvEnergy to the curb. InvEnergy has an ongoing lawsuit in Oregon where the farmer/rancher there cannot sleep in his home. My wife and I have not been able to afford the cost of a lawsuit, yet, being since we now own 2 houses......one to live in and one in InvEnergy's wind project. There are several homes for sale and not going anywhere........perfectly wonderful well-kept and lived-in homes which are unmarketable. I used to think farmers were good neighbors, but now I think they are greedy pigs. I suppose if you hate your current neighbors and if you have a wish to burn in hell, then go ahead. OR, you could carefully research the stuff. I recommend you read the entire submittal from the citizens near Shirley Wisconsin where the Brown County Board of Health declared the turbines to be a human health hazard. I think you are too young to have such a terrible regret for such a long time coming. I am willing to discuss this matter with you in great detail.......217.840.1612 or email tedhartke@hartke.pro
In closing, it is obvious many postings here are for the "old" turbines being 350' tall or less. These machines are 500' tall and cause an air pressure pulse when the blades flex at each turn, and the "thumping" that happens causes a rumble noise inside of the homes. Visitors to wind farms don't experience the throbbing rumble heavy bass noise which causes the sleep deprivation and stress for the families who live nearby. This is like touching little girls and boys (my children) in their beds at night, bothering them, keeping them awake, and ruining their ability to be happy/healthy children. I think you will be sued since now you know.............you should seriously read the accounts submitted in Brown County Wisconsin because this issue is replaying everywhere these 500' turbines are placed, affecting about 25% of the residents. If you hold out and never have to deal with a turbine or litigation, you will be very lucky. Now, you should go visit your neighbors so that your home is not ruined like mine.

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Sandhills boy » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:12 pm

Speaking on the R project if they shut down all the coal, what good does the R project do, there is no excess. Just confusing for this dumb country boy. They were to cut them back by 30% when they were having the meeting about the project something is not adding up. Can't build any new power plants because of the EPA, but that does not seam to stop any wind projects. :?
Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and
those who dare not are slaves. Lord Byron, poet (1788-1822)

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Amo » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:11 pm

Sandhills boy wrote:Speaking on the R project if they shut down all the coal, what good does the R project do, there is no excess. Just confusing for this dumb country boy. They were to cut them back by 30% when they were having the meeting about the project something is not adding up. Can't build any new power plants because of the EPA, but that does not seam to stop any wind projects. :?


You've got a point. If the shut down Gerald Gentleman down it reduces the need for the R project. Do you know how far out the complete shut down of coal is, I don', I'd guess its at least 50 years out, but thats strictly a guess. Then again who would of thought they'd shut down the nuclear plant at Ft. Calhoun. Id guess it will amount to who is POTUS. Also Id guess a lot of it will depend on the court hearing in Theadford tomorrow.

For those who don't know...NPPD the public power company in Nebraska is putting this power line up. All power companies in Nebraska are publicly owned. Also the public service commision, or some other orginization basicly ordered the R project to be put in. If NPPD didn't put it in, a private company would of. NPPD needed to do some surveying. They hired the local county surveyer to do it. My information comes from facebook posts against the power line, so I only have one side of the story. Well the surveyer opened a paddle locked gate. The sheriff said that they had to let them cross because he was the county surveyor. The thing is they were doing work for NPPD, thus trespassing. So land owner is sueing. If judge finds in favor of the land owners, it will hinder the R project, thus hindering the wind farm. It will be interesting to find out what happens.

Ive talked to some people in Antolope & Boone counties where these towers are. They say, they do make some noise. The ones Ive talked to say they got use to it. Im sure some get use to it, some don't. Just like rail road tracks, highways, airports, etc. Nothing is perfect. I wonder how old the towers are the guy on the New Ag Talk thread are. I know they put 3 of them up at Springview. The first ones they had some issues dealing with static on the phone lines. They corrected it.

Guess here is my 2 cents on some of this. OK, so the main family in this area fighting the R project is claiming erosion that will never heal will happen with construction. I can kinda see that, even though they are putting poles in with helacoptors, some truck traffic will do a little damage. I don't think as much as the opposition is leading on, but its possible. Another thing they complain about is going through a shelter belt. That sucks loosing a shelter belt. At the meeting NPPD gave numbers of corners, poles, miles of line, & total cost of production to the 3 prefered routes. The chosen route of the 3 was the most expensive & had the most corners. Weather that was to try and avoid the most opposition or the route to cause the least amount of problems to land owners is open to inturpertation. They had meeting with each land owner in the coreadoor. Then they wanted to go on the land and survey. Well these people Im sure lawyered up early. Won't let them on their land. Guess Im of the impression that if you would work with NPPD, they would work with you. Maybe they could of worked together. With google earth and everything they shouldn't of needed access to the land, but bull headedness hinders progress. Just my opinion. Of course the power line is ugly. It ruins the natural beauty of the sandhills. It was never here, it shouldn't be hear. That shelterbelt wasn't there in 1876 either. Now yes it provides protection etc, but my point is its not a natural part of the sandhills. Then the good one is their family is married into the plant that manufactures Rowse Rakes. NPPD built a power line 40 some miles to provide enough power to supply their plant....in the middle of said precious sandhills. Now this power line isn't as big as the towers on the R project, but its still a power line through the sandhills, that ruins the "natural beauty" if we are going to be picky. Of course they said well its in the highway right of way, which most of it is...some isn't. Cattle can rub and destroy sod around the poles just like the things they are using to argue against the R project. Just whinning stuff like this is kinda annoying. Just like the origional post here saying digging a hole for a concrete foundation will contaminate the water table. How many concrete foundations have been in water? I know my house foundation/basement gets submerged with the water table. Now if while digging the foundation you spill fuel, chemicals, etc then yes. End of rant

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Amo » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:15 pm

littlejoe wrote:And a nother thang: if them lakes are draining into the Ogallala---shouldn't they be getting shallower?


IDK about where others live, but the water holes around here go up and down. Dry years it evaporates or soaks away. Big rains it fills up. You have water springs in places, so I guess thats the Ogallala coming out of the ground.

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby mrj » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:33 am

That Ogallala aquifer is a strange and wondrous thing, imo. Is it even known how many sources there are, where they are, and what affects their production? I recall maybe 25-30 years ago hearing of studies by universities, hydrologists, and others who were trying to find the source and one test was putting strong dyes down big sink holes in western SD and maybe neighboring states. They never found where it came out.

Because there are so many caves and caverns under the Black Hills, many not totally explored, and they are 'uphill' from where that water comes out, there just might be underground streams we don't know about, either. And there are large underground bodies of water under quite a lot of territory, including where I live which are known to be sourced somewhere to the west, whether the Black Hills, of further west I don't know. I do know we have a well that produces 90 degree water a couple miles from our house. I believe it is called the Dakota formation. Unfortunately for me, it cools to about 60% by the time it gets to the house. We are not currently using it for anything but cattle water.

There are other interesting uses of that formation, a popular one being the mineral baths at the historic Stroppel Hotel in Midland, SD. Think the temperature there averages about 105%. There us a deeper one called the Madison formation which is much hotter. When the town of Midland used that one, it had to be cooled. Steam would rise from a bath tub, or even a toilet!!! Now we have rural water from the Missouri River, so the old city well is capped, but the hotel has a private well.

mrj

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Sandhills381 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:52 am

Amo wrote:Guess here is my 2 cents on some of this. OK, so the main family in this area fighting the R project is claiming erosion that will never heal will happen with construction. I can kinda see that, even though they are putting poles in with helacoptors, some truck traffic will do a little damage. I don't think as much as the opposition is leading on, but its possible. Another thing they complain about is going through a shelter belt. That sucks loosing a shelter belt. At the meeting NPPD gave numbers of corners, poles, miles of line, & total cost of production to the 3 prefered routes. The chosen route of the 3 was the most expensive & had the most corners. Weather that was to try and avoid the most opposition or the route to cause the least amount of problems to land owners is open to inturpertation. They had meeting with each land owner in the coreadoor. Then they wanted to go on the land and survey. Well these people Im sure lawyered up early. Won't let them on their land. Guess Im of the impression that if you would work with NPPD, they would work with you. Maybe they could of worked together. With google earth and everything they shouldn't of needed access to the land, but bull headedness hinders progress. Just my opinion. Of course the power line is ugly. It ruins the natural beauty of the sandhills. It was never here, it shouldn't be hear. That shelterbelt wasn't there in 1876 either. Now yes it provides protection etc, but my point is its not a natural part of the sandhills. Then the good one is their family is married into the plant that manufactures Rowse Rakes. NPPD built a power line 40 some miles to provide enough power to supply their plant....in the middle of said precious sandhills. Now this power line isn't as big as the towers on the R project, but its still a power line through the sandhills, that ruins the "natural beauty" if we are going to be picky. Of course they said well its in the highway right of way, which most of it is...some isn't. Cattle can rub and destroy sod around the poles just like the things they are using to argue against the R project. Just whinning stuff like this is kinda annoying.


I enjoy following this site and the discussions, but was surprised to see someone attempting to smear my family's name. Yes, my family is one of those who are opposed to the proposed R-Project transmission line through the Sandhills. This line was developed by the Southwest Power Pool (SPP), a 14-state regional transmission organization, for the purpose of accommodating large privately owned wind farms who wish to export wind energy into the SPP marketplace. Nebraska is the only all public power state in the US. Nebraska Public Power District (NPPD) currently produces nearly 4 times the amount of energy needed for in-state use, and sells that surplus energy in the open marketplace of the SPP. This revenue, which was nearly $100 million last year, is used to offset any potential rate increases to its customers. NPPD and the SPP are both long on energy, and the SPP wind energy market is saturated through at least 2025 (by their own data). NPPD is on track to meet their renewable energy standards, and have no interest in incorporating more wind into their portfolio at this time. Peak load is in the summer, due to irrigation, and the best winds are in the winter, so clearly a more stable baseload generation source such as coal is needed to provide reliable energy. The R-Project is a 345kV transmission line, which is 10 times larger than the largest 115kV lines that currently supply energy in the Sandhills. This line is for exporting privately owned energy...period. The Nebraska Legislature passed LB 824 this spring, removing the requirement for private wind farms to even have a buyer in place for their energy with a power purchase agreement before building. This bill also requires NPPD to build the transmission from these private wind farms to connect to our public power grid, which is what the developers want since public power has the automatic use of eminent domain. So all that leads to this....no energy shortage, no desire of our public power to buy more wind energy because it's too unreliable, but private developers with dollar signs in their eyes, wanting to build inefficient energy generating systems while forcing 150' tall transmission towers across private property with the use of eminent domain. The addition of more large wind farms leads to transmission congestion and reliability issues. The Sandhills are one of the last remaining intact native grasslands in the world. My family has ranched here for 131 years, and are now into the 6th generation. You mention the loss of a shelter belt, but you didn't mention that it is in one of our main calving areas, and spans over 1/2 mile. A large calving barn, corrals, and smaller lots have been carefully and specifically placed behind this cedar/cottonwood grove. This transmission line will remove all of the protection we have from the north winds at this location. We calve out 650 cows, and make use of every bit of protection we have. We have flowing artesian wells, as I'm sure you do, and don't want to have them drill nearly fifty holes 60' deep for foundation screws into the water on our ranch(4 per lattice tower). The proposed route of the R-Project is 75% inaccessible, in many cases at least 3-4 miles from the nearest roads. There are complete townships further west on the route that currently have no roads. NPPD claims they can't stay in their 200 ft easement, so they are also attempting to condemn and create permanent access roads to reach the easement. Eminent domain abuse for private gain is wrong. NPPD acts as if those out here who oppose this project are NIMBY's. Should we apologize for putting our private business needs before the needs of out of state private investors just looking to draw steady cash at our expense for the next 25+ years?
Amo, although I don't personally know you, I do know who you are, but I won't post your name here out of respect. I've been in your area a few times...in fact we bought the hay off of Hamp's place from Darry in 2012. I respect your right to your own opinion, and the next time I see you I'll be glad to let you speculate on my family's business in person.

Devyn Ballagh
Amelia, NE

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Soapweed » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:03 pm

This deals with water contamination by wind towers in England.

http://blackburnnews.com/chatham/chatha ... -measures/

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Brad S » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:58 pm

Good read SW. That site alone should make everyone to take pause. Much cheaper to draft a plan dealing with issues than scrambling to repair problems on the fly.

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Re: Judy Wilcox's letter concerning Wind Energy

Postby Amo » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:03 pm

Devyn

Id like to clarify some things. First off, I have no clue as to why we use nick names on forums. Im a member of several forums. One of them several guys use there actual names. So for the record Im Gary Nachtman. I can't remember if I have met your or not. I know I met either you or your brother one time when your Dad showed some of your hay ground. Even though I haven't visited with you in person about this issue, I did attend 2 of the land owner meetings at the Chambers Community Center. I attended these meetings for one they were advertised as open to the public and I wanted to be informed as to peoples thoughts/concerns from both sides. I do try to listen to both sides of a topic before I devise an opinion. You may disagree and that's fine. Yes, you have more skin in the game than I do, as it crosses your land...maybe near your houses. It doesn't cross mine. In full disclouser I think Im about 6 miles from the proposed route. If the route potentially got moved north, I could be impacted. I also attendee the open house that NPPD hosted after the final determined route was announced. I listened to you, your wife, and your parents speak sometimes at length about your thoughts and feelings on the proposed route at these meetings. Sorry if you felt I should of talked to you personally, but I felt I had gleaned enough information to determine an opinion. I went on line that night to relax because I was in a slightly bad mood. I could of been more tact full.

After listening to all of the debate over Keystone XL in the last 4-5 years, which I was 4-5 miles from the first proposed route...some legitamite concerns others not so much...I have developed a gag reflex to reasons for opposition that don't make much sense. In full disclouser I was against KXL at first for several reasons. After they changed the route, I became neutral. Mainly due to some of the claims that Bold Nebraska made. Either build or or don't. As to wind frams or the R project for example, in Judy Wilcox's letter stating that the Ogallala Aquafer is getting muddied do to the construction of towers. Im no engineer or bio chemest, but I fail to see a logical reason that coralliates. Or the New Ag Talk thread describing health issues. In my crop insurance travels we make conversation with the insureds as we travel. In Boone & Antolope counties where wind towers are at it make an ease topic. They state they make some noise, but you get use to it. Im sure some don't get use to it, which sucks. When I read something such as the New Ag Talk thread, I kinda have to question some things since Ive visited with satisfied people first hand. Studies are funny things. Look at the debate over Zilmax, but then again there's agent orange. I guess I may be different than some, but looking at the landscape I hardly ever notice power lines for instance, unless I specifically look at them. Same with wind towers etc. I actually find it interesting to go east or north, and see all the high voltage power lines N.E. of Pierre S.D. for example, or wind farms. I realize others find them ugly. I guess I find ugliness a poor excuse to oppose progress, porviding it is progress.

Devyn, Im sure you have done a lot more research on this than I have. I respect your comments as to your opinion as to construction of the R project. Yes Im going off information that NPPD gave at its open houses. This topic came up when we were adjusting for a board member of a REA east of here....Boone county to be exact. I played devils advocate expressed the concerns of land owners such as your self. This conversation was several years ago, I don't remember the exact details but he indicated that it was needed to garuntee an adiquate power supply along with other things. Maybe we both have drank NPPD's "jim jones kool aid" and are guppies.

I wasn't intending to smear you. I like to give discriptive examples, that illistrate as to how I developed my opinion. Of the examples I could use to illistrate....one I couldn't remember enough of the details for me to feel comfortable repeating it. The other was stated at one of the land owner meetings. Even though those meetings were advertised to be public, I felt I shouldn't use that example. Where the other two were said at the NPPD open house. So yes that pretty much left you. Some of my comments in this thread are ment in general, not specifically at you. I didn't mean to belittle your shelterbelt. Since you know where I live, you surely know I have several as well. I don't specifically remember you stating the pivitol importance of the shelterbelt in your comments at the NPPD open house. What I remember was you talking how long it takes to grow one and that they are important, which I agree. Just a common theme to opposing comments was ugliness, not natural, and not on my ground. I used the power line to the plant and shelterbelts as examples to things not natural to the enviorment, and something that was put in either on fence lines or private property to benifit one profit making entity. As stated above I tend to lean towards NPPD's point of view. If they chose to cross my parents property, Id feel Id be helping my fellow citizen insuring the power grid. Will some companies profit, sure. Its a capitolistic economy. If I could put a price on my calves, I wouldn't sell them at cost or less. We will have to agree to disagree.

I don't remember any thing said about hole digging. Im curious as to the concerns about that. Erosion & voltage IMHO are legitmate concerns. I understand about putting your private business first. I have very casually visited with 2 people east of me who had concerns about the project. They worked worked with NPPD and NPPD, according to them were acomidating. Plus at the first round of open houses NPPD mapped any potential building development, shelterbelts, irrigation pivots, etc. They didn't just plot a path and say this is it. Maybe you have a higher number of concerns or they are harder to find a better solution to. I somewhat know your Dad and uncles. Your good people. I was talking about hard to deal with people in general and scuttle butt saying NPPD was hard to deal with vs what I had heard first hand. Yes, I realize scuttle butt is scuttle butt. Through insurance adjusting we deal with difficult people from time to time. Now we do follow procedure and adjust the claim properly with a contagious insured. The chance that we would go the extra mile, isn't as likely to happen.

I think we can both agree, more effort should be put towards storing generated power than generating more power and eminent domain is a powerful law that needs to be used carefully.

Gary Nachtman
Chambers, Nebraska


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