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Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:35 pm
by Faster horses
Informative slide show by Dr. Don Bliss. Find out how effective your deworming program really is.


https://service.admani.com/portal/page/ ... -28-13.pdf

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:44 am
by Triangle Bar
Very interesting

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:01 pm
by bearvalley
What Don Bliss is saying is very true. Parasites have developed a resistance to ivermectin based products. We first noticed this several years ago when worming our horses. It seemed like some always appeared "wormy" no matter what product was used on them. All the paste, liquid, injectable and pour on dewormers contained ivermectin as the base. We then started to break the cycle by going back to using panacur (fenbendazole) for 2 wormings and the an ivermectin product.
After sitting in on one of Don's presentations we've gone to an annual spring worming with Safegaurd on both our cattle and horses.The rest of the year it's with ivermectin products. The big advantage is being able to feed it with mineral instead of putting everything thru a chute.

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:02 pm
by Faster horses
bearvalley wrote:What Don Bliss is saying is very true. Parasites have developed a resistance to ivermectin based products. We first noticed this several years ago when worming our horses. It seemed like some always appeared "wormy" no matter what product was used on them. All the paste, liquid, injectable and pour on dewormers contained ivermectin as the base. We then started to break the cycle by going back to using panacur (fenbendazole) for 2 wormings and the an ivermectin product.
After sitting in on one of Don's presentations we've gone to an annual spring worming with Safegaurd on both our cattle and horses.The rest of the year it's with ivermectin products. The big advantage is being able to feed it with mineral instead of putting everything thru a chute.


So you have heard him speak too. He is so interesting to listen to. I sat in with a group of veterinarians in Billings, Mt at one point where he was the guest speaker. He didn't mince words when he talked about dewormers. (I think veterinarians receive a big royalty check for selling avomectin products). Plus he blew the lid off things when he was interviewed in Beef Magazine several years ago and talked about immunity to avermectins. He was very brave in speaking out. Especially that long ago. It is more common knowledge now than it was then. It was going against the grain at that time.

That slide show presentation I posted here makes it really easy to understand. We hold nutrition meetings for our customers and Don Bliss came and talked. He has said that the way the promoters of avermectin products get the results they market, is to shave the backs of the cattle before they pour them; thus giving them every chance to have positive results . The pour-ons have to go through the hair, the hide and the internals to get where it needs to be. By that time it has lost a lot of efficacy and that is how the cattle have built an immunity to the avermectin products. Many of our customers now use the our mineral that contains Safe-guard later in the fall. They have learned that to pour them in late Sept or early Oct. for grubs and lice and wait to deworm because worms propagate when temps are warm and the ground gets moisture. Doing it later, the cattle don't get re-infested.

He taught us that 1/5 dose of avermectins will kill lice and grubs.
One other little thing that might be of interest; if you paste worm your horses, Safeguard paste is the same as Panacur, only it's a lot cheaper. When it's labeled for horses, it costs more. :D

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:15 pm
by bearvalley
Faster horses wrote:One other little thing that might be of interest; if you paste worm your horses, Safeguard paste is the same as Panacur, only it's a lot cheaper. When it's labeled for horses, it costs more. :D

That's the truth when you say "if it's labeled for horses, it costs more"
I'm a bit of a redneck and have a good redneck vet for a friend. We've done some unpatented worming programs on a bunch of horses with no ill results. A couple that worked just as well as the pastes or the ivermectin liquid for horses were the Dectomax injectable and Cydectin pour on. The only problem was that all these products came from the same family therefor the parasites developed a resistance. That's were the Safegaurd or Panacur came in to break the cycle.
To top it off, when your worming over 150 ponies it's a lot easier to feed them wormer free choice for a while in their mineral than it is to give them each a blast in the mouth.

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:26 pm
by Silver
bearvalley wrote:
Faster horses wrote:One other little thing that might be of interest; if you paste worm your horses, Safeguard paste is the same as Panacur, only it's a lot cheaper. When it's labeled for horses, it costs more. :D

That's the truth when you say "if it's labeled for horses, it costs more"
I'm a bit of a redneck and have a good redneck vet for a friend. We've done some unpatented worming programs on a bunch of horses with no ill results. A couple that worked just as well as the pastes or the ivermectin liquid for horses were the Dectomax injectable and Cydectin pour on. The only problem was that all these products came from the same family therefor the parasites developed a resistance. That's were the Safegaurd or Panacur came in to break the cycle.
To top it off, when your worming over 150 ponies it's a lot easier to feed them wormer free choice for a while in their mineral than it is to give them each a blast in the mouth.


Yes, they do like to soak it to the horse folks. Equioxx is another great example. Quite expensive and hard to administer in horses, but buy Previcox (for dogs) and it's easy to feed to horses and about 10% of the cost. In most cases a far better drug than Bute.

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:56 pm
by graybull
More Drugs............Better Drugs.....

Who administerd the drugs when cattle were wild?

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:05 pm
by Faster horses
graybull wrote:More Drugs............Better Drugs.....

Who administerd the drugs when cattle were wild?


Most likely nobody........but we didn't ask cattle to perform like we do now. It's a trade-off. Do you want 200-300# calves at
6 months old? Did it matter back then what % was bred and when? Steers were 3 years old before they were sold. Who can afford that?

Just sayin'...... :D

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:53 am
by mrj
Interesting points made.

And FH, you sure are right on the differences in what we expected cattle to be able to 'do' way back, and now!

Our ranch sold the last of the three and four year old cattle in 1957, they year we got married, and also was the last time we shipped by railroad out of Midland, SD on the CNW.

Still shipped by rail for a few more years, but out of Belvidere, SD on the Milwaukee.

There still is a train going through Midland, but shipping grain, from this area, and hauling rock and other things through from other places. Maybe even oil, or whatever else is shipped in tanker cars. Personally, I'd rather that stuff go underground in modern pipelines!

mrj

Re: Ivomectin vs Safeguard as Dewormers

Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:28 pm
by Faster horses
Even when we started back in 1965, heifers were kept til they were 3 years old before they calved. Those cattle, even though they were Herefords, were big and wild, and if they didn't want to take their calf, you had your hands full. It was like they lived that long without any responsibilities and they darn sure didn't want to start at 3 years old. Mr. FH called them 'society bit*ches." :lol: :lol: :lol: