Faster horses wrote:You are in error, TexasBred. Cargill purchased Vigortone 5 years ago. They wanted Vigortone mineral and have left it alone and left us alone to proceed as usual with support as needed.
We have had chelated mineral since I have been a dealer, and that was since 1994. Vigortone is an Industy Leader; it's the oldest mineral company in the USA. All their research is on mineral, not on feed.
TexasBred, I would challenge you to put part of your cows on Vigortone for a year and then compare the results with Purina. If you like Purina, you'll love Vigortone. Be sure to keep track of conception rates, calving length, vigor of calves at birth, rate of gain and herd heath. In the north it is documented from several ranch trials that we can put 30# on calves and customers who will attest to this.
Have you had a Purina dealer test hay; test water, test bunks for you? This is all provided at no cost to our customers. The one place Purina is better than Vigortone, is in the amount of advertising they do.
Really??? Use to know a good nutritionist that worked out of that plant. Mr. Tim Smith. Haven't heard from him in several years but always thought the world of him. He may be retired by now. We're all getting a bit "long in the tooth".Faster horses wrote:10 bags wouldn't be much of a trial, now would it? You can't tell much with 10 bags. Give us a year, one bunch of your cows, then you will see.I have a small operation...and it would be free.
You seem to know a lot about Cargill and Provimi. Do you happen to know Cargill owns Purina everywhere in the world
except in the USA?Absolutely they do.
100% chelates in Purina, you say? Better check that out. It's more like 30%.Yes 100%....30% is what competitors will say though just to make their own look better.
Our chelated mineral is 32S Beef Breeder Mineral and perhaps Western Range 4S MOS (contains Bio-Moss), and the chelates are made by Zinpro. Who makes the chelates for Purina? I'm not saying chelates aren't good, I'm saying why pay the extra cost if it isn't needed?Yes they are from Zinpro, Availa-4 specifically. I'd rather pay extra for something that can actually be utilized by the cow than buy a cheap mineral with high guarantees yet most of the minerals pass through the cow and end up on the ground. Oxides are about 10% available....sulfates a bit more....chelates over 90%)
Honestly, the only chelated mineral I have sold in 24 years is to a veterinarian who was doing embroyo transplants and he wasn't on a mineral program. Our customers haven't found the need for the extra cost--they are more than satisfied with the performance they are getting without chelates. Speaking of cost, Vigortone had the reputation that they were higher (by the bag, not in the performance found by those using the product) but now we are competitively priced and at times, the cost is even less. How long has it been since you have comparison shopped? I am proud of the fact that our first customer, is still a customer after 24 years.FH I really haven't priced your product in several years but historically it was always considerably higher than anything on the market.
You have ever reason to be proud as I said in my first post. Vigortone is an excellent company and has an excellent reputation and even you as a sales rep appear to be a very good example of the time and service you provide to your customers.
Just talked to two customers today. One doctored the first calf in 3 years; the other hasn't doctored any. It's hot, dry and dusty
for sure. Says a lot, doesn't it?
And BTW, there still is a Vigortone plant in Weatherford, Texas.
A tip of the hat to you. Love folks who are passionate about their work and stand behind the products they sell and when they get a new customer they tell the new customer "you also get me....give me a call anytime".Faster horses wrote:Diamond V is the brand of yeast and I don't know how much, just that the mineral works really well. I say "Vigortone is a
performance mineral, cattle perform on it." Why are you concerned about yeast culture? Doesn't Purina have it in their product?The strain of yeast as well as the inclusion rate are very critical. Some put just enough to be able to include it in the list of ingredients. Some use a high quality yeast and include it at recommended rates for that particular yeast culture. Inclusion rate for Diamon V for instance would be much higher than if you were using Yea-Sacc 1026.....BTW Purina uses Diamond V as well but only put it in certain minerals I believe. Personally I'd rather have it in my feed since yeast deteriorates over a rather short period of time and.
I really think you are misled on the chelates in Purina being 100%. For one thing, I don't think that is possible.
I'll try and find out for sure. Our chelates are Zinpro Availa 4. I have literature on it, with a phone number so I'll give then a call and see if 100% chelates are possible.No I can put it into my feed formulation program and set the restrictions to what PMI guarantees on their tag and it simply requires 125 lbs. of Availa-4 per ton to match those guarantees....and there are no oxides or sulfates listed in the list of ingredients.
How much processed grain by-products are in Purina? Most all mineral will contain some processed grain by-products or plant protein products to make it palatable. An absolute necessity. Even yeast culture is simply sprayed on a carrier of by products or even grain.
You are so right about cattle needing to utilize the mineral. That's why I am skeptical about Purina Wind and Rain. When
they put their treatment on it in order to hold up in weather, it also is hard for the cow to utilize because of that treatment. It is
moisture that breaks down the mineral in the cow; yet their treatment keeps moisture from breaking down the mineral when it gets wet in the tub/station, whatever. Vigortone uses consistent particle size to combat moisture. Being the same size keeps it from bonding together and turning into a hard lump. It might get a crust over the top, but breaking that crust up with a shovel, the cattle go right back to it, so none is lost.True, I've used similar products. But then Cargill mineral is literally "Wet" when it comes out of the bag. Almost like it has mineral oil on it.
Thanks for the compliment. I try. We had a major wreck for 8 years and Vigortone fixed that, so I'm passionate about something
that I know works. If I can help one person from going through what we did, then that is my reward.