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Color Help

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tumbleweed_texn
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Color Help

Postby tumbleweed_texn » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:11 pm

I need some help determining the color on a new colt that we just had.

The stud is a foundation bred palomino who's pedigree is a "Who's Who" of the Quarter Horse Registry. If it's old blood and good, he's got it.

The mare is a Hollywood Dunit(sp) and Zan Par Bar(sp again). She is a super sweet broodmare. FH knows this mare.

Anyhow, she just had a colt by the above stud and I don't onow if it's cremello or perlino. The colt is an offwhite, or really light dun or palomino and it has blue eyes. I know that I should know my colors, but honestly, I stay away from the cremellos an perlinos. I know some folks like them, but I always considered it a defect. Just my opinion and I'm not going to change it. I sold a very nice mare and her two year old filly lastyear because they carried the cremello gene. The stud is 17 and has never thrown this color, so I dont think it's him.

Does anyone know the difference?
Does anyone want to buy a mare and colt? We have been needing to thin down our horse numbers, so momma and baby are going to town.

Thanks,
Tex
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Postby Oldtimer » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:03 pm

Too early to tell.. Unless you have about 7 generations of colors on both sides of the pedigree- its even hard to figure what will be a dominant genetic color... I've seen folks do it- but it wasn't ever worth my time...

The majority of the offwhites I had (especially those sired by a palomino stud I owned for sometime) shed off in the spring when yearlings as a shade of palomino....

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Postby tumbleweed_texn » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:51 pm

That's true, OT. I've just never had one start out this way though, and with two blue eyes to boot. Needless to say, I'm a little disgusted. I might could'a took it if it had'nt been for those blue eyes.

This stud has thrown color allover the board except for roan. His colts have always changed color, but I don't think this one will.

Tex
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Postby caljane » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:00 am

If your mare is a palomino or buckskin your foal is, considering the blue eyes (and pink skin?), pretty sure a cremello or perlino by receiving a dilution gene from the stallion (palomino) and the mare (palomino or buckskin).
If your mare is dark brown/alomost black, but one of her parents was a palomino or buckskin, she may carry the dilution gene without showing it (="smokey black").
Either way cremellos and perlinos carry the double dilution on a sorrel (red) or bay base color, sometimes it's only with DNA testing possible to tell them apart, sometimes the perlino has a honey to rost colored mane and tail.
Good news - if your mare is a plain sorrel or bay horse the foal cannot be a cremello or buckskin, but is probably an outcrop (extrem sabino) and you can double register it with AQHA and APHA ... :wink:
Would love to see a picture :)
Unfortunately you are not alone with your low opinion about cremellos/perlinos - I went to a top notch sale, they had a very nice Cremello, well broke for ranch and team roping, good (!) looking horse - except the color. no-saled for $800, horses like him, even sorrels, sold for $6000 and higher.
On the other hand - I sold a 2year old Cremello only for his color, and he was a duck-ugly horse!
Good luck!

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Postby tumbleweed_texn » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:20 am

Thanks Jane. I should have mentioned it and forgot, the mare is registered as a red dun. In the winter she gets kinda dark. In the summer though, she is a really pretty light dun. Beautiful color in the summer. The foal is blue eyed with pink pigmentation. The pink is really noticeable around his eyes. I wish I could figure out the picture thing, but that bit of wisdom eludes me.

If I kept the colt and got him going good, by the time he is a 4yr old I think I could make a pretty good chunk off of him. There are a people out there that don't share my opinion on the color and he would look good as a pony horse at the track or a parade horse. Not gonna do it though. We have the same kind of cows as most everyone else, but our horse program has taken me a good while to get it where it is and I take alot of pride in the colts we raise. Not this one though. LOL. What really ticks me off, as far as pedigrees go, he is about the best one we have ever raised. You just cant get much more foundation bred than what this colt is. I cant get over the color though. With the pink pigment around his eyes, we have already though about snow blindness. When you see pics of wild horses, you just dont see cremellos and perlinos. I have always considered those colors genetic defects and when you think about colors in wild horses and the absence of theses two, it just reaffirms my belief. I may be wrong, but even if someone proved me wrong I would'nt change my mind. Just dont like those colors.

You mentioned the Top-Notch sale, are you in NE Wyoming. We are along the Belle Fourche River south of Gillette.

Thanks for the info.

Tex
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Postby caljane » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:40 am

Interesting ... I am a real sucker for horse colors, if I wouldn't be so ridiciously busy I would hop over and take a look at your horses (Devils Tower area).
Your mare may carry the dilution gene beside a dun gene. The Hollywood line is known for many "dunalino"'s, Hollywood Dun It himself was a buckskin&dun, registered due to AQHA limitations in describing a color only as a dun.
Your colt can not be a perlino, though, must be a cremello.
Most cremellos I have seen have permanently watering eyes and stand with squinted eyelids in the sun - yes, they are disadvantaged. But some - very few - seem to cope well with the brightness and look completely healthy and happy. I still would make them wear fly masks due to eye cancer like many whitefaced/blue eyed paints develop. Talking about making an ugly horse even uglier ;-)
Image

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Postby katrina » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:19 am

Color is second to conformation...If the colt has great conformation I wouldn't worry about color.. If that is all I ever had happen to my horse program I would be doing a snoopy dance... I mean this in the kindest way.... If he's a really good colt, get over yourself and keep and ride the colt.. YOu might be surprised.. Perlinos are common and excepted just about everywhere..

http://www.stallionsnow.com/stallion-ad-374610

http://www.stallionsnow.com/stallion-ad-390898
Don't sweat the small stuff.

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Postby tumbleweed_texn » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:32 am

Jane, if you ever want to come over and check things out let me know. We'd love to have you. We are only about 20 miles south of Gillette.

LOL. Katrina, I knew you had an affection for yellow horses and I figured you would jump in here. It's not really a matter of getting over myself. You know what its like in NE Wyoming. It can be pretty rough. Both, weatherwise and the terrain. I take pride in raising horses suited to this environment. If I have to worry about cancer eye or sunburn on a horse, that means I raised a defective horse. This is one issue I will not budge on. I dont like horses with white feet or horses with four white socks either. Just my old fashioned personal preference.

If you are interested Katrina, I will make you a good deal on mom and the little horse colt. We honestly need to get rid of a few anyhow. We had already decided that if she'd had a filly colt that we would sell her and baby. So far though, we have had three horse colts born this year. With your interests, I guarantee that you will like the stud this colt is out of. He has some pretty impressive papers and he is your color.

I always thought that cremellos had the caramel colored eyes. I've never looked close enough to a perlino to know what I was looking at, but I thought one of the colors had blue eyes. I think I will call AQHA today.

Thanks all
Tex
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Postby tumbleweed_texn » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:50 am

Thanks for posting the links Katrina. The stud in the first link looks most like my new colt. The cremello stud in the second link though had the blue eyes like this colt though. This has me stumped.

Tex
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Postby katrina » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:50 am

You do know you can tattoo eyeliner on your horse? That would take care of everything but the white feet....LOL... Yes they really do! Okay.... I tried, I still think you're selling this colt short... And I'm horse poor... I would like to see a picture, being horse crazy like I am.... And you didn't say what breeding either. So spill the beans with pictures... You never know I might end up agreeing with you..... :D
Don't sweat the small stuff.

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Postby tumbleweed_texn » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:14 am

Pictures on this site elude me.

The mare is 2nd gen Hollywood Dun It on top
3rd gen Zan Parr Bar on bottom.

The stud:
Queens Jolly Prince
foundation out the wazoo.
In the first 3 gens on the top of the studs papers there are 6 horses with superior halter, superior arena or ROM's
I have an extended pedigree here that Im looking at on the bottom of the studs papers.
The names I am reading are,
Bar Deck
Royal Bar
Flicka L
Top Flight
King P-234
Clabber
Three Bars
Top Deck
Equestrian
Three Bars again
Midnight Jr
Percentage
Piggin String
My Texas Dandy
Wimpy P-1
Jack McCue
Miss Waggoner
Wimpy P-1 (again)
King Ranch mare (starting to get out of the registry)
Percentage (again)
Midnight
Old Sorrel
Little Joe
Mare by Traveler
Peter McCue
mare by Midnight

These are just the names on here that I know. Someone who is smarter than me would probably know more.

This stud is about the nicest stud as far as disposition goes, as I've ever been around. Lastyear I was showing him to some people while he was out with the mares, I jumped on him bareback with no halter or anything and started riding him around. He is a sweetheart. I will see if I can get some pics of the colt today. I have one or two of the stud. If FH dont mind, I will send it to her and let her post it for me.

I will make you a helluva deal on mom and baby Katrina. We are horse poor ourselves.
Confirmationwise, the colt looks awesome. Its just that dang color.

Tex
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Postby katrina » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:21 am

Queens Jolly Prince 3393417 1995 palomino stallion
SIRE side of pedigree Smokey Duster Too 1974
1002145 gray
Mr Duster Too 1968
0554409 sorrel

Smokeys Gray 1978
1394805 gray
Poco Ashwood 1961
0171528 gray

Texie Bee McKee 1966
0423707 buckskin
Mike McKee 1950
0028903 bay

A Risky Business 1986
2448693 palomino
Sally's Majorett 1958
0124087 palomino

Capital Gain 1960
0173886 bay
Custus Rastus (TB) 1948
T0055112 bay

Ima Gainer 1968
0533142 sorrel
Miss Revenue 1943
0005803 bay

Thirsty's Doll 1958
0112272 sorrel
Thirsty 1952
0035573 sorrel

Juno Doll 1952
0071445 sorrel


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAM side of pedigree Bar Deck 1958
0123082 bay
Moon Deck 1950
0163343 brown

Apollo 8 1968
0565256 sorrel
Miss Night Bar 1950
0032535 chestnut

Stepwisely 1961
0195957 sorrel
Royal Bar 1954
0061936 black

Queen 8 1974
1011419 sorrel
Flicka L 1943
0005046 sorrel

Red Miller Jr 1959
0104969 sorrel
Red Miller 1940
0012438 sorrel

Red Miller Queen 1967
0473303 sorrel
Miss Canudo 1951
0038005 chestnut

Cage's Trudy 1955
0068717 sorrel
Cage's Cattle King 1948
0020099 black

Wimpess' Model 1947
0017125 sorrel

Is this the horse?
Don't sweat the small stuff.


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