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Heifer development

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
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4Diamond
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Re: Heifer development

Postby 4Diamond » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:36 am

I was "developing" heifers the other day and noticed a 15 month old had a calf. Teen mom!

Brad S
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Brad S » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:20 pm

Like to see a mineral study for heifers - I think cow longevity and production is enhanced significantly.

I think the silver ration is optimal - when you push with concentrates you get nasty side effects like kph fat & fat in the milk system. Universities all say push heifers with concentrates, but I've never seen a study looking at disads.

I've heard wheat pasture has a negative impact on reproductive tract ph.

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Silver
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Silver » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:28 pm

Brad S wrote:Like to see a mineral study for heifers - I think cow longevity and production is enhanced significantly.


Against what baseline would your mineral study be measured? It appears from my time on this site that many places seem to be mineral deficient, but we know they are not all deficient in the way. In fact, there may even be places where a mineral program will not pay for itself.

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Faster horses
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Faster horses » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:36 pm

Silver wrote:
Brad S wrote:Like to see a mineral study for heifers - I think cow longevity and production is enhanced significantly.


Against what baseline would your mineral study be measured? It appears from my time on this site that many places seem to be mineral deficient, but we know they are not all deficient in the way. In fact, there may even be places where a mineral program will not pay for itself.


Ok, I'll bite. Where would that be that a mineral program will not pay for itself?
It not only will pay for itself, it will make the producer money.
Ranch trials show that mineral supplementation helps with herd health all across the board and breed back; plus adds weight to
calves as it stimulates their rumen making it so they can consume more forage. Calves that eat more, weigh more. Another thing of notice is heifers that were on mineral since conception breed up sooner, have better body condition, just to name a couple of things. We have customers who get 85-90% breed back in 30 days. As did we. On straightbred Angus.

Another point, Texas A&M did a study and the results showed that calves that were fed mineral while on their mothers, had
less pulls and made more money in the feedlot.

But I think we have had this discussion before.

Brad S, we have friends/customers who would agree with you on your longevity observation. The longer a cow stays in the herd,
the more money she makes her owner. (Of course I know you already know this). Longevity is so important and often overlooked. We just can't keep taking from a cow without giving back what she needs. Lots of feed stuffs will make a huge difference, but mineral fills in what is lacking in their diet. Nutrition and genetics....what it's all about. :D
"All the Democrats know how to do is lie and “forget.”--Trey Gowdy

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Silver
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Silver » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:42 pm

FH, we have had this discussion before, and I would suggest that unless you ranch my place you would not be able to make an informed opinion on whether or not cattle raised on this place would benefit from a mineral program.
I have not seen a herd on any mineral program in this area outperform those well managed outfits that choose not to feed mineral. That tells me that herd nutrition is being met, and therefore a mineral program in this instance is simply gilding the lily. You are welcome to make a case for mineral in areas that you are familiar with, but please do not assume to tell me what we need in a place you have no working knowledge of.

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Faster horses
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Faster horses » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:24 pm

What I am pleased to say is that we have helped bona fide producers over a huge area, including Canada, learn about the benefits of feeding mineral. And it wasn't to profit off them, but rather to inform, educate and help them. Some people are just open-minded and want to know more, some people don't.

Most producers that don't feed mineral are leaving money on the table.
"All the Democrats know how to do is lie and “forget.”--Trey Gowdy

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Silver
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Silver » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:31 pm

Faster horses wrote:Some people are just open-minded and want to know more, some people don't..


Couldn't agree more.

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Big Muddy rancher
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Big Muddy rancher » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:04 am

Silver do you supplement Selenium?
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I can't tame wild women.

But I can make tame women wild.

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Silver
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Silver » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:44 am

Big Muddy rancher wrote:Silver do you supplement Selenium?


No we don't, feed tests in the past have shown no need for it, and herd health backs this up.

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Re: Heifer development

Postby redrobin » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:46 pm

1.5 lbs gain per day down here means feed concentrates. Heifers down here gaining like that will get pretty fat.

Brad S
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Brad S » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:20 pm

Silver raises a good issue about baseline for mineral study - so good I got no answer. I've had cows in a several wide ranging places. Id guess shortgrass in mt and dakotas might be the strongest grass I've seen, and FH still realizes positive effects from mineral. Generally people have a very high regard for flint hills grass, but mineral supplements are easy math there (still many, if not most steers graze on salt - even on a gain basis)

If you can get 8 or 9 good calves and sell a still solid cull, cow replacement costs are manageable.

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Faster horses
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Re: Heifer development

Postby Faster horses » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:51 pm

Cattle would need to run in the "Perfect" ranch country if they are never lacking for anything. Not saying it isn't out there,
but I haven't seen it nor heard about it. Til now.

Jon Patterson from MSU did a mineral study in Montana several years ago and it was ongoing for several years. His findings were Montana and Wyoming forage were lacking in copper and zinc; both are very important to a cow. That's why mineral is an important supplement. It fills in the blanks.
Plus the fact that different water sources contain sulfates which tie up copper and zinc and diminish the immune system.
That's one thing mineral about--enhancing the immune system so cattle can fight off disease.
"All the Democrats know how to do is lie and “forget.”--Trey Gowdy


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