Vigortone mineral

[Howdy1]

I just switched to Vigortone mineral. I like it and the cows LOVE it. They were on high quality mineral tubs (Orwigs) and also some other loose mineral. They also have free choice salt. They are absolutely over consuming the Vigortone and I could see high consumption if they previously didn't have access to mineral. When looking at the mineral it has a large amount of distiller grains in it (in my opinion). I was curious is Vigortone is a mineral dealer or a DDG dealer. I think they are adding it so as to get their consumption up even if the cows need it or not. I used to feed nothing but Vigortone a few years back and decided to try it again but seeing the horrendous consumption and the cost of it, I don't see using it anymore.
I was just curious what you guys that feed it also think? I know most people who feed Vigortone are die hards but I can't seem to justify it to myself or my checkbook. Looks like Vigortone and their dealers are the real winners. Those of you who stick with them I would love to know why. Maybe you get results that I am overlooking. Any info would be appreciated.

[Faster horses]

Maybe I can help answer some of your questions.

There are two reasons why cattle over consume mineral. One is the forage they are on is indigestible and they are trying to satisfy their dry matter needs. The other one is they are trying to up the copper in their liver. If your cows haven't been on a quality mineral PROGRAM, then that could be why they are over-consuming. How long have your cows been on Vigortone? Just because you use another mineral, doesn't mean it was available to the cow and she is over-eating now to up her liver stores. Vigortone put a lot of research into particle size, so that it would be AVAILABLE to the cow. That's what is really important, that the cow can utilize the mineral. Vigortone is the oldest mineral company in the US. All their research goes into mineral, not feed.

Mineral in tubs does not stay disbursed, with our tubs we recommend putting mineral out free-choice as you have done. When you do that, in most cases the loose mineral consumption goes down, so maybe it only appears that your cattle are over-consuming because they are eating it at recommended amounts and you aren't used to that.

The only distillers grain in the mineral is to keep the yeast culture going. How can you say it has a large amount of distillers grain? By looking?

I am confused by your post. First you say you like Vigortone and then you complain they are over-consuming it. How much are they eating? 4 oz is the recommended amount. If there is a big calf with the cow, then maybe 6 oz is more realistic. Are you in one of the drought areas in SD? If so, that could have something to do with it. In SE Montana we have had our customers put out an old sorry bale of something so the cows can satisfy their dry matter needs. Dry matter is a requirement and has been over-looked. Lots of feed that is not digestible keeps the cow seeking dry matter that they can digest....which could be mineral. Putting that old bale of anything out there will sure help cut down consumption when the cow is seeking dry matter. They won't eat it right up, but soon it will be gone and they won't eat as much mineral.

What formula are you feeding? Are you feeding a 3V product or Western Range? How much Phos is in it? We have 148 different mineral formulations. Please let me know more. I've been a dealer for 24 years and still have my first customer. Don't kid yourself, producers don't keep using Vigortone for any other reason than it works, and makes them money. Better herd health, better conception rates and higher weaning weights. We've proven it over and over. Plus the heifer retained that the mother was on Vigortone will show better condition, great conception and great health, so the use of it goes on past the cow herself.

I'll help you as best I can, but I do need to know more. I wish you would just ask instead of insulting the product.

[m5farm]

Faster, in trying to find a dealer it looks like a feed store I use has the right now mineral is this the same as the vigortone?

[Faster horses]

No, but it is a pretty good mineral. Better than most. PM me your address and I'll see if I there is a dealer near you. I don't know why they don't show the dealers on their website. We've asked for that, still hasn't happened.

[PPRM]

Maybe I can help answer some of your questions.

There are two reasons why cattle over consume mineral. One is the forage they are on is indigestible and they are trying to satisfy their dry matter needs. The other one is they are trying to up the copper in their liver. If your cows haven't been on a quality mineral PROGRAM, then that could be why they are over-consuming. How long have your cows been on Vigortone? Just because you use another mineral, doesn't mean it was available to the cow and she is over-eating now to up her liver stores. Vigortone put a lot of research into particle size, so that it would be AVAILABLE to the cow. That's what is really important, that the cow can utilize the mineral. Vigortone is the oldest mineral company in the US. All their research goes into mineral, not feed.

Mineral in tubs does not stay disbursed, with our tubs we recommend putting mineral out free-choice as you have done. When you do that, in most cases the loose mineral consumption goes down, so maybe it only appears that your cattle are over-consuming because they are eating it at recommended amounts and you aren't used to that.

The only distillers grain in the mineral is to keep the yeast culture going. How can you say it has a large amount of distillers grain? By looking?

I am confused by your post. First you say you like Vigortone and then you complain they are over-consuming it. How much are they eating? 4 oz is the recommended amount. If there is a big calf with the cow, then maybe 6 oz is more realistic. Are you in one of the drought areas in SD? If so, that could have something to do with it. In SE Montana we have had our customers put out an old sorry bale of something so the cows can satisfy their dry matter needs. Dry matter is a requirement and has been over-looked. Lots of feed that is not digestible keeps the cow seeking dry matter that they can digest....which could be mineral. Putting that old bale of anything out there will sure help cut down consumption when the cow is seeking dry matter. They won't eat it right up, but soon it will be gone and they won't eat as much mineral.

What formula are you feeding? Are you feeding a 3V product or Western Range? How much Phos is in it? We have 148 different mineral formulations. Please let me know more. I've been a dealer for 24 years and still have my first customer. Don't kid yourself, producers don't keep using Vigortone for any other reason than it works, and makes them money. Better herd health, better conception rates and higher weaning weights. We've proven it over and over. Plus the heifer retained that the mother was on Vigortone will show better condition, great conception and great health, so the use of it goes on past the cow herself.

I'll help you as best I can, but I do need to know more. I wish you would just ask instead of insulting the product.

148 formulations...

I have a question. My cattle are spread around on different pastures and different feeds. I say that in that I am not certain feed analysis is the best way to pick one blend in my case. My question is, "How would I pick the right formulation?

I am using CHS Ultimin 12:6. It is available locally. It has worked really well compared to the Wind and Rain Purina I used to get. I know we are Selenium deficient here. I know Zinc and Copper are a must. Some people think it is expensive. They don't add any salt. You feed Salt free choice. So, per bag it is more expensive. But it isn't cheapened with salt.

How I really chose this mineral is one of my dealers uses it personally. She buys the bottom end calves from her brother. After wintering, they usually catch up or surpass his (He runs 600 cows, so this isn't a small sample size). Like I said, our cattle are doing very noticeably better. But, I am always ready to consider options.

[Faster horses]

Usually, unless it is something unique, the grass doesn't change all that much in an area. In all the grass samples we have taken,
there has only been ONE RANCH that needed something different and for them we made a custom mix. The mineral formulation
we use in our area is 12-6. I took a look at CHS Ultimin 12:6 online. A couple of things bother me...first ingredient is Processed Grain by-products. We had an elderly rancher that was using PayBack mineral and he told me the cows RUN to the mineral. We discussed it and we told him that cows don't run to mineral, they run to grain. He switched and he has been totally satisfied. Even told the trucker who picked up his yearling steers he was retaining ownership on, that his cattle have never looked better or done better. From that I think CHS Payback contains a lot of grain. I know it used to and perhaps still does in the 12-12 formula. Cattle have a hard time consuming 12% phos as it makes the mineral bitter....so they used grain to get them to eat it.

Another thing to think about, it says it has Xtra-Dry in it. If it can't break down in wet weather, how does it break down in the cows system to be readily available to the cow? With ours, particle size takes care of that, the particles don't bond together. In real heavy wet weather, it might form a crust on top, but you just go in with a shovel and break up the crust a bit and the cows will go right back to the mineral. It doesn't get rock-hard or turn sour.

Here is one more thing, Copper Chloride is the only source of copper. We have copper sulfate and copper chloride both, as copper sulfate is easily absorbed. When we used a product that contained copper chloride only, we started seeing red or red tint to the black cattle. That just isn't the way it should be, so our nutritionist came up with the Western Range products with 2 kinds of copper. I know CHS touts their mineral as containing chelates, but how much is chelated and what part of the ingredients are chelated? The only person I ever sold chelated mineral to is the local veterinarian when he was doing embryo transplants. I realize 'chelated' is the buzz word, it is just that in our area we have not seen a need for it in 24 years--with the veterinarian being the exception. How black are your black cows, PPRM? Really black, or reddish-black. Granted genetics and worms can play a part in black cows not being totally black. If I can find it, I have a picture of our cows, in August that are BLACK and shiny. It's always hot and dry in SE Montana in August.

I don't want anyone reading this to think I know it all. I don't. Mostly I just want to help educate on the importance of a quality mineral program. Again, I'm just a small dealer in a big world and things change all the time.

I also believe in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[highgrit]

It's hard to beat Purina wind and rain. We keep trying different mineral sources and so far Purina has been the best all around mineral for us. I'm interested in that summer cool Vigortone mineral, can you get it in high mag and medicated for flies?

[Faster horses]

It's hard to beat Purina wind and rain. We keep trying different mineral sources and so far Purina has been the best all around mineral for us. I'm interested in that summer cool Vigortone mineral, can you get it in high mag and medicated for flies?

I'm not sure, but I will find out.
Wind and Rain....again treated so moisture won't bother it. I wonder how it breaks down for the cow to fully utilize it.
I'm glad it is working for you.

[PPRM]

It's hard to beat Purina wind and rain. We keep trying different mineral sources and so far Purina has been the best all around mineral for us. I'm interested in that summer cool Vigortone mineral, can you get it in high mag and medicated for flies?

I won't likely do Purina Wind and rain again. When we stopped using it and went to the 12:6 ultimin, a ton of problems disappeared. One summer, I went back to save on IGR cost. For like 4 months? Anyways, I magically started having to splint newborn calves front legs until they strengthened. And, the calves and cows just didn't perform.

I've been told they have reformulated. But, I am mostly happy with my current program. The real thing that has me apt to change? There is no local dealer. The Mill is 6 miles from my house. When they suggest a dealer, the dealer always tries to switch me to another product. Yet, the mill sells to me at full retail. I can call a dealer 3 hours from my house, buy a full ton, pick it up at the mill and get it for a lot less. Just rubs me the wrong way.

[PPRM]

Faster horses, my black cows are really black. I know the red hue you are talking about. it generally goes over the shoulders when really bad. It's often the first thing I see if present in someone's cows.

[PPRM]

Fh, if it in't broke but will run better, I'll give it a try ;-}

[highgrit]

It's hard to beat Purina wind and rain. We keep trying different mineral sources and so far Purina has been the best all around mineral for us. I'm interested in that summer cool Vigortone mineral, can you get it in high mag and medicated for flies?

I'm not sure, but I will find out.
Wind and Rain....again treated so moisture won't bother it. I wonder how it breaks down for the cow to fully utilize it.
I'm glad it is working for you.

I honestly don't know how or if a cow can utilize the purina mineral. But it's the first mineral that the cows consume the recommended amount.

Here's another good mineral that we've used and had good luck with. The salt is a little higher than I'd prefer but the cows consume it fairly well.