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Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

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Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby PPRM » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:46 pm

I've spent time watching and learning over the years. A lot of what I learned as good Horsemanship transfers to cattle is my feeling.

Make the right thing easy, wrong thing hard. Get your stock to respond to lower and lower amounts of pressure. When they even think of responding, release.

There's some unique principles and strategies to working cattle. Zig Zag for example. First time cows ever were camped at the back of a stock trailer (No panels or alley leading to it) and I stepped back, it was really cool how they just immediately jumped forward and into the trailer.

I've spent time watching Dogs and see them get up too close to cattle. Cattle blow back and the dog retrieves them. One clinician says he believes some dogs get up on cattle just so they can have them blow by and get to bring them back, LOL...

It was never hard to get me to start thinking in terms of lower stress cattle handling. Like I said, I think a lot of the stuff is really cool. And, it seems we readily apply it to the animals on our ranch... Cattle, Horses, dogs maybe....Everything leading to the corrals. I've said, "If you do everything right before the corrals, I truly believe it doesn't matter if you have a Bud Box or sweep. Cattle are flowing and either work better. I have seen examples of both not working worth a darn. Set you cattle up.

Low Stress sounds really good. I've seen both better equipment and better handling methods change how a days work at the corrals goes. I also heard a comment once, "More ranches aren't going to be transferred because of what happens chute side than any other reason." I've heard of divorces that kind of started by the stresses on people when working cattle.

It's got me to thinking, "Why aren't we applying low stress to the family part of the equation more? Will it work?"

Something I have been mulling over... Quiet and safe travels everyone
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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby Haytrucker » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:10 am

I can't comment on low stress people handling, but as to processing cattle, we had to change how we refer to the task. It's not even close to work any more. I hadn't thought of applying the methods to me and mine. A valid point.

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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby Faster horses » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:04 am

Usually how a fella or gal treats his animals is also how he/she treats others.

We took a horse to have ridden by a so-called trainer. After observing his treatment of his wife and then his horses,
we escaped with ours. It was written all over how his heart was.....and it wasn't good.

So changing mentally on working cattle could help relationships.

We have known Curt Pate for years. He's a good man and a wonderful stockman.
"All the Democrats know how to do is lie and “forget.”--Trey Gowdy

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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby PPRM » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:58 pm

Faster horses wrote:Usually how a fella or gal treats his animals is also how he/she treats others.

We took a horse to have ridden by a so-called trainer. After observing his treatment of his wife and then his horses,
we escaped with ours. It was written all over how his heart was.....and it wasn't good.

So changing mentally on working cattle could help relationships.

We have known Curt Pate for years. He's a good man and a wonderful stockman.


He is... There's a number of guys way better with animals than people. I find myself in that category at time. I understand cattle and horses not understanding or not certain they want to go with the program. And, I tend to be pretty patient. When it comes to people, I somehow feel they should understand and tend to not have or extend the same patience. I'm trying hard to change that. LOL, have you noticed people can be frustrating though? ;-}
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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby Texan » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:55 am

PPRM wrote:He is... There's a number of guys way better with animals than people. I find myself in that category at time. I understand cattle and horses not understanding or not certain they want to go with the program. And, I tend to be pretty patient. When it comes to people, I somehow feel they should understand and tend to not have or extend the same patience. I'm trying hard to change that. LOL, have you noticed people can be frustrating though? ;-}

Great points. I'll choose dealing with a dog or a snot-blowing old crazy cow over dealing with people any day. I guess I lack the diplomacy and social skills to deal well with people. People suck, anyway, so I don't really care - just leave me the hell alone. LOL

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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby George » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:55 am

Dealing with either animals or people takes time and training - - - I am now the Director of Transports for the local Sheriff's Dept - - - I am trying to instill on the people under me that we are always on alert but try to make the J3 feel at ease - - - If you see the "jewelry” I put them in we are very safe if we do our job correctly every time!

If I am transporting someone for several hours and can make them calm and complacent it is much better than having them throwing a fit all the way!
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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby RSL » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:08 am

Interesting thread. My 2 cents would be that the skills that apply to handling livestock apply nearly equally as well to working with people, just the flight zone is tougher to gauge. I agree with the pre-flow thought when it comes to working cattle. I had the cool opportunity to be a speaker at a series of conferences a couple of years ago where Curt Pate was demonstrating livestock handling techniques and he is very good. At the one at home he was so good that the fellow he was working with (and was consistently in the wrong place and the right time?) was not even aware of it as Curt worked him as well as the cattle.
Over the years I have luckily had the chance to work with a variety of good cowboys in the true sense of the words. That saying about 2 ears and one mouth is a good one and I have learned a lot (mostly about myself) that has helped with handling livestock. I think we are in a way better place today than we were 10, 20 or 50 years ago when it comes to stockmanship, but we still have a way to go in the industry.
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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby Faster horses » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:22 am

Maybe we EXPECT more from people because they are supposed to be SMARTER than dogs, cows or horses. :D
Doesn't always prove to be true though. :wink:

We had a fellow who came to help us at times and he worked for others a bunch too. He had the ability to fit in and do whatever
and however you wanted to do it. Fast, slow or in-between--he is a good hand. He did tell us that he enjoyed working with us (no one ever works FOR, Mr. FH) because of how we worked cows, and as a result, how our cows worked for us. Nice and quiet, all the time. (well, until we got into some genetically unruly cattle and we got rid of those. Those kind stir up the rest and who needs that? No excuse for it at our place, so I do believe genetics can play a part in a cows disposition--even when handled quietly. We used a lot of Rito 2100 back in the 80's--did you ever notice those daughters tend to be rough on their calves as mommas?)

A good cowboy told us once, "if you have enough people you can do anything with a cow eventually, but if there is only one of you, you better know how a cow thinks." Mr. FH worked a lot of cattle alone and he really could 'read' them. He could gather yearlings across a creek by himself, and get the job done without raising much dust. Dust can be an indicator of things gone wrong. So around here when things are going good, we say "that job didn't raise much dust." :D He strives for that...me on the other hand, I have not achieved that as of yet. I can get in the way... :lol2: :nod: But I do try.

A really good veterinarian mentioned once when we were getting cattle into the alley--"slow is fast"...he knew how to work cattle like we work cattle and it was always good when he was there. The other vet....different story!

Interesting RSL, especially on what you wrote about Curt and the guy getting in the way...thanks for that mention in your post.
"All the Democrats know how to do is lie and “forget.”--Trey Gowdy

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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby Workinonit » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:24 pm

Texan wrote:
PPRM wrote:He is... There's a number of guys way better with animals than people. I find myself in that category at time. I understand cattle and horses not understanding or not certain they want to go with the program. And, I tend to be pretty patient. When it comes to people, I somehow feel they should understand and tend to not have or extend the same patience. I'm trying hard to change that. LOL, have you noticed people can be frustrating though? ;-}

Great points. I'll choose dealing with a dog or a snot-blowing old crazy cow over dealing with people any day. I guess I lack the diplomacy and social skills to deal well with people. People suck, anyway, so I don't really care - just leave me the hell alone. LOL


:nod: :nod:

I find, often, that I prefer the animals, even if they are snot-heads and stupid, I find them to be more predictable than people. It is easier to anticipate the next move that the cow/horse/dog will make if you study their eyes, body etc. With people, one doesn't often have the time it takes to study the same body language.

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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby PPRM » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:36 pm

Workinonit wrote:
Texan wrote:
PPRM wrote:He is... There's a number of guys way better with animals than people. I find myself in that category at time. I understand cattle and horses not understanding or not certain they want to go with the program. And, I tend to be pretty patient. When it comes to people, I somehow feel they should understand and tend to not have or extend the same patience. I'm trying hard to change that. LOL, have you noticed people can be frustrating though? ;-}

Great points. I'll choose dealing with a dog or a snot-blowing old crazy cow over dealing with people any day. I guess I lack the diplomacy and social skills to deal well with people. People suck, anyway, so I don't really care - just leave me the hell alone. LOL


:nod: :nod:

I find, often, that I prefer the animals, even if they are snot-heads and stupid, I find them to be more predictable than people. It is easier to anticipate the next move that the cow/horse/dog will make if you study their eyes, body etc. With people, one doesn't often have the time it takes to study the same body language.



I've gotten to where I can predict a lot of the stupid things people are about to do, LOL.
The difference between a rut and a grave is the depth



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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby Silver » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:41 pm

Grandpa always claimed that horses, dogs, and kids all needed to be handled the same way. As I get older I see more and more of the wisdom in that.

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Re: Curt Pate, Whitt Hibberd, Bud Williams, Low Stress

Postby George » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:17 am

Silver wrote:Grandpa always claimed that horses, dogs, and kids all needed to be handled the same way. As I get older I see more and more of the wisdom in that.


This is true. Some of the people I deal with have always been treated as dirt - - - they come to expect to be treated badly and it takes a while for them to understand there is another way.

Same with cattle - - - if they have been trated badly in the past they expect the same, some will respond to better treatment and some will never trust again.
Watch your thoughts, they become your words.

Watch your words, they become your actions.

Watch your actions, they become your habits.

Watch your habits, they become your character.

Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.


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