cattle dealers

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
peacecountry
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cattle dealers

Post by peacecountry » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:31 am

It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.



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Kato
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Post by Kato » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:47 am

I don't think they always make money. Lots of times they do, but not all the time. About three quarters of the long time buyers we know have gone broke at one time or another. They gamble for a living, and it's not always a win.

The way I see it, no matter how low a price you get, the guy who bought the animal bid higher than anyone else. As long as the bidding was honest, and the first and second bidder weren't working together, there's not much to do about it. If you're selling at an auction where there's only one buyer, or the buyers don't honestly compete, then get out of that place and find a better market.

If they're making money rerunning cattle, then whoever is selling them needs to take away the option to improve them and gain from it. The best way to get a good price at any auction is to bring cattle that don't need improving. Do that at home, and get paid for it yourself.

We buy calves to background. The ones that make us the best money are the well bred calves who haven't had their homework done. They've got horns, or they are bulls, or they haven't had ivomec, and have poor coats, and they are small. We clean them up, castrate them, grow them big enough for a big feedlot to want, and a lot of the profit comes from the cleaning up that we did. Whoever sold those calves to us gave away that extra money. 99.9% of the calves we buy, if they were our own home raised calves, would never have seen the auction at the size we buy them.

The bottom line on these calves is that we will only pay one bid more than the next bidder. That's just how it works. Even if we think they are worth more, if no one else bids against us, that's as high as the price gets.
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Post by flyingS » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:55 am

It seems as though it is always easy to blame the buyer, but like the Kato said the seller has options too. They can no sale cattle or market them privately, switch selling strategies (barn vs. video). Sell your cattle before they get in poor condition. A person needs to be accountable for their own actions instead of always looking for someone or something else to blame. After all the buyer didn't put the seller in the situation he or she is in.

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Re: cattle dealers

Post by Soapweed » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:59 am

peacecountry wrote:It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.
If they "sit at the local auction" and have the highest bid on someone's cattle, for whatever reason, they have done the seller a favor by giving him or her the most money on that day. If they take the animal home, clean it up, fatten it up, or whatever, what is wrong with making a profit on it a few weeks later? It seems like an honorable way to make a living as far as I am concerned. If that buyer had not been at the sale the first time when the cattle came through, the seller would have received less money than they did. The cattle were there on sale day, and someone was going to buy those cattle.

What I do have a real problem with though, are the sale barn sharpies who take bids out of the air and pull other less-than-honest fast buck procedures. It is a real pet peeve of mine, and is a great big reason I don't attend hardly any high-falutin' bull sales.

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Post by PATB » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:43 am

AS long as the auction is run fair and above the board all bidders are welcomed. It is the sellers fault for not improving his cattle to receive a higher price.

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Post by burnt » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:04 pm

I tend to agree with Soap on this one. Even a dealer is adding a bit of value as long as the sale is above board.

Sometimes there are calves that are worth far more than their selling price, but the owner doesn't have the option of growing them out or improving their condition to maximize their value.

A few weeks ago. I went (which is very rare) to a sale and saw some almost 3 wgt Charolais heifer calves sell for around 85 cents. About $250!!!!!!

But they were the tail end of a big group of calves that was being sold and the owner didn't want them around for some reason, I guess.

So if I could have bought those calves (I don't have room :( ) and fed them until grass time, would that make me a dealer?
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root". Henry D. Thoreau.

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Re: cattle dealers

Post by Justin » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:06 pm

Soapweed wrote:
peacecountry wrote:It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.
If they "sit at the local auction" and have the highest bid on someone's cattle, for whatever reason, they have done the seller a favor by giving him or her the most money on that day. If they take the animal home, clean it up, fatten it up, or whatever, what is wrong with making a profit on it a few weeks later? It seems like an honorable way to make a living as far as I am concerned. If that buyer had not been at the sale the first time when the cattle came through, the seller would have received less money than they did. The cattle were there on sale day, and someone was going to buy those cattle.

What I do have a real problem with though, are the sale barn sharpies who take bids out of the air and pull other less-than-honest fast buck procedures. It is a real pet peeve of mine, and is a great big reason I don't attend hardly any high-falutin' bull sales.
i agree, well said

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Post by lazy ace » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:44 pm

Hey Soapweed how do you market your calves in the fall?

have a good one

lazy ace

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Post by Soapweed » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:06 pm

lazy ace wrote:Hey Soapweed how do you market your calves in the fall?

have a good one

lazy ace
I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:

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Post by lazy ace » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:22 pm

Soapweed wrote:
lazy ace wrote:Hey Soapweed how do you market your calves in the fall?

have a good one

lazy ace
I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace

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Post by DejaVu » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:15 pm

Okay. Here's the story from the other side. I buy those calves. I buy mainly over the internet. I get them home and must have GOOD pens. These calves might weigh 600lbs and are right off the cow. No shots, never have seen a feed bunk. Absolutely no health program behind them. Some are still bulls, some have had an idiot cut them and leave one nut, some have had the nuts shoved up in them and then banded. :mad: So I spend the money on shots, worming, and probably antibiotics. I damn near live with these calves for weeks. Out of 100, I'll probably lose 2. That's my average. I have them bunk broke, hot wire broke, all vaccinations up to date, and more tame than they came in. They get salt and mineral. Fresh clean water. I do the work that someone is too lazy to do. You have issues with that? I see no reason to reward anyone with high prices for his calves when he didn't do anything to earn it. That's the government's job, it's called welfare. We don't need it when it comes to our cattle. My opinion is, animal cruelty starts with the person too lazy, too indifferent to provide herd health. He/she is selling those calves with no regard to their future.

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Re: cattle dealers

Post by Grassfarmer » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:08 pm

peacecountry wrote:It wrong to think about being a dealer these people sit at the local auction they seem to pray on others hardships. short on grass whatever take those animals home get looking good take back 3 weeks later make a hundred bucks and do it again.as acow calf man it seems criminal but they seem to make money .what happens if cattle ever go up in price.
I might be misreading you post but are you suggesting it might be a good thing to become a dealer rather than you are running down dealers? I think buying as Kato suggested is one of the safest ways to be in the cattle business at the moment. We've started to add a few every winter to our own calves that we will take to grass - they might be horned, bulls or off sizes on the day but with a bit of management they can become good cattle that sell in a group down the road. I like this little sideline and I think it will work well in times of higher prices too - as long as there continue to be a lot of ranchers that are poor marketers.

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