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2 Questions about Mature cow weight

BRG

Well-known member
I posted this same post on cattle Today, but here goes.

In my travels I see alot of good seedstock cow herds changing direction now that corn is high and they are going for that smaller type cow. Yes alot of cows need to be toned down some in frame and weight. It seems that nearly everyone is always talking about the perfect 1200 lbs efficient cow. That is great but I have 2 questions/comments on the subject.

#1.
How do you get the 1200 lbs cow when nearly the only bred heifers that seem to sell good are weighing 1000 lbs or more. Those 2 don't work together.

#2
I would take a bigger cow anyday if she is long bodied and deep ribbed. It don't take much of a moderate framed, deep sided cow with some length to weigh 1400 lbs plus. I really think we would be going backwords on body shape if we try to get that 1200 lbs cow. It seems like everyone has been working for years to get a cow with some rib shape and some length in body to her that is easy keeping. Why go the other way and breed for shorter bodied, finner made, and not as deep bodied cows? I may be mistaken, but that is about the only weigh to lighten the weight of a cow and to me that is going backwards. Ya, some cows may be taller than others, but like I said, it sure doesn't take much of a moderate framed cow that is deep ribbed, to weigh more than 1200 lbs. The cow in the photo below is an example of what I am talking about. She is moderate framed, and weighs a heck of alot more that 1200 lbs, but to me, her shape is nearly ideal and she is extremely easy keeping, and to me, being easy keeping like she is on grass alone, proves that she is pretty effiecient. So I ask why change the type to get a 1200 lbs cow?

3008_resized.jpg
 

Andy

Well-known member
#1 The only way a 1000lb heifer will become a 1200lb cow is if she is super early matureing and stops growing at under 3 years old. I think this would be ideal but I have seen very few heifers that actually do that.

#2 I pretty much agree with everything you said here except that the cow pictured that is fat proves she is effiecient. She may be or she may just be a pig that eats more than the other cows because of the way she is built. Either way she look just like the cows that I am trying to raise and I would love to have a whole herd of them. Even if there calve are not as effiecient in the feedlot they grow very good and will bring back alot more dollars then the small effiecient.


BRG "In my travels I see alot of good seedstock cow herds changing direction now that corn is high and they are going for that smaller type cow."
This is all BS talk from seedstock operations that are just trying to sell bulls. For most seedstock producers in my area this is only the second year of high corn prices. So at best the calves from this change they are making were just born this spring. So my question is how can they really be changing directionof there cow herd if the only animals they have from these "new" genetics are only a few months old?
 

Shorthornguy

Well-known member
My preference is a smaller cow, but if a cow is fed only grass and trace minerals, breeds back in 60 days, and raises a healthy calf, it doesn't matter to me if she is 900 lb or 1400 lb. I am a believer in grassfed beef.
All corn does is hurry it to market.
 

cowwrangler

Well-known member
most effiecent cow i have is 1200 lbs,she always weans a 650 lb calf,but its the last year for her she is getting on in years,i have a half long horn cow that is effeicent also,wil;l go out to feilds and pick instead of standing at feeder,was at a sale last week where they sold a guys herd,there was a cow coming with her 3rd calf,she weighed in at 2200 :shock: no one even put a bid in on her,she went to kill ,suppssed to calf april 10,wonder if she could wean a 1100 lb calf?? :lol: :lol:
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
BRG said:
"In my travels I see alot of good seedstock cow herds changing direction now that corn is high and they are going for that smaller type cow."
Andy said:
This is all BS talk from seedstock operations that are just trying to sell bulls. For most seedstock producers in my area this is only the second year of high corn prices. So at best the calves from this change they are making were just born this spring. So my question is how can they really be changing directionof there cow herd if the only animals they have from these "new" genetics are only a few months old?



“Today, looking back at all that has transpired, I honestly believe that the more we change cattle, the more we need to make a kind the same. Ironically, contrary to purebred principles, for the most part, the economics of the registered industry thrives on motion, commotion, and promotion of difference in order to sell illusion that descends from confusion; to change the most of what we have into what we have the least. Then when the least becomes the most, we change the most into the least of what we now have. We call these endless cycles progress, and the cattle that we are constantly changing are called purebreds.” ...Larry Leonhardt
 

Doug Thorson

Well-known member
In my travels I see alot of good seedstock cow herds changing direction now that corn is high and they are going for that smaller type cow. Yes alot of cows need to be toned down some in frame and weight. It seems that nearly everyone is always talking about the perfect 1200 lbs efficient cow. That is great but I have 2 questions/comments on the subject.

A change of direction will take 10 years to complete. They already have their herd bulls and cows that evidently don't fit their "NEW" plan.

I see a lot of cows that need toned down in their frame but not neccesarily in their weight. I know one pretty good outfit that took a full frame score point off their cows and when they got done they had cows that weighed more that the 7.5s they had. That air under their belly just doesn't weigh much!!

That cow looks great. The next few years my hope is that hype over the NEW AND EFFICIENT Joe Blow bulls doesn't overshadow those of us who have put several years into building a program that works.

When the industry passes you going from one side to the other, stay the course because they will be back.
 

WyomingRancher

Well-known member
I guess America is just obsessed with weight, whether it be cattle or human :lol:

Most of us would agree that long, gangly, tube-shaped, hards keepers aren't the most profitable cattle to run. We mostly all appreciate that deep bodied, thick cattle do seem to work well.

You can pack a lot of weight in a moderate frame cow, and I don't believe a number on a scale will tell you exactly how much forage she'll eat to survive. Look at people, some heavier people can eat like a bird, and still not be able to slim down, while other skinny people can eat like horses and not gain a pound. I don't think cattle are any different.

My vote is to throw out all the scales... for human and cow both, remember, its only a number :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
BobbieBDay2007005.jpg


There is my perfect cow- she is 11 years old, under a 5 frame (the cow behind her is barely a 5 frame), weighs less than 1200 lbs- stays in good shape every year- calves on the first cycle every year-has enough milk, but not so much her bag still isn't bad as an old gal- and brings in a March/April calf that weighs over 600 lbs in Oct when I wean....

The problem is- with all the "bigger, better, faster" bulls that are now being marketed- how do you keep that "perfect" cow....I know from personal screw up- I fell into the New Designs and all the other top bulls that were being promoted- and besides frame leaping (not creeping) up on heifers kept- I ended up with several more that were having bags go bad- 3-4 year olds coming in late or open- a bigger feed bill- and no real change in weight of calves- or price paid for calves ...

Thats my goal now- is to get back to this cow- the middle of the road cow....I know of at least a half dozen seedstock producers that never went with the bigger better faster trend and still have good "moderate" cattle....And several commercial producers that have or are trying to go back....
I think the reason their cattle is the "hot" market is because of the demand since so many now want to see more moderate cows again and are going that direction... Locally I know several large commercial operations now using their bulls, which should make more commercial heifers available...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
WyomingRancher said:
Oldtimer, I'd gladly put those two cows in my herd :wink: I especially like the looks of the cow in the distance.

That far cow is one of a dozen heifers I bought from Cottonwood Cattle Company when they had their last sale-- I bought them as "commercial" and never got the papers so really don't know what bloodlines she is....She is a 98 model....Been a nice old cow....
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
I think if we were to keep all of our heifers, not change our feeding programs and stay with the same breeding programs, after 3rd year the cows that are left would would be the ones that fit our operations. It's very difficult in this country to buy 900 lb bred heifers in the fall, mainly because people refuse to preg test heifers "that small ". I feel there are a lot of good efficient heifers going to kill and a lot of big
" saleable " heifers that should be. I've calved lots of smaller framed heifers over the years and have experienced less trouble with them than the big ones. The ones that breed back that first year usually stay around for a long time. We sold a black baldy cow last fall that had weaned her 19th calf and finally came up empty.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
I doubt if I've sold many heifers that weighed 900 in the fall-mine are smaller than that but they bring more money.If your going the salebarn route 'size is wise' but private treaty to guys who understand what your doiung it really doesn't matter as much. A little ambition and credit at the feedstore and I can build them as big as you like-I don't have much of either so I don't lol.
 

George

Well-known member
I'm going smaller but it is because I have done my own test in house.

The last two years I have devided the Angus cow from the Charolis when feeding hay and I find I can feed 5 angus on the same hay as 3 charolis. That got my attention and I feel the pasture would yield the same results although they all run together on pasture. I originally seperated them as I felt the angus were getting shoved out at the feeders.

Then when I sold calves and found the stright angus were averaging 35# more per head than the smokey calves ( same bulls) I started culling the charolis much harder and replacing with good angus. I feel I will be able to stock about 15% more cows thus having 15% more calves to sell.

Now to fess up the Charolis weighed over 2,000# each ( top of 2,300# ) when I got rid of them and the angus would probably average about 1,400# so I might have just gotten Charolis that were to big to start with. After I get back to all angus I will probably use at least one Charolis bull to see if the smokey calves will outperform the stright angus.

I sure love to look out and see the white cows on the hills but I have to feed my family and in my case it seems that Angus fit my operation better.
 

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