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237 service members....

kolanuraven

Well-known member
were sworn in today in Iraq as US citizens.


Now wait a minute.....

We can't let gays who ARE citizens serve....but we can let people who ARE
NOT legal citizens serve and be paid from the gov't till?

:roll: :roll: :roll:
 

VanC

Well-known member
Lot's of official government policies make no sense whatsoever. This is one of them. Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a good compromise at the time. I think it's time we take it a step further. I don't consider gays a sub-human species as some others seem to. There's no reason to believe that they can't serve in the military with just as much honor, dedication, competence, and distinction as anyone else.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
VanC said:
Lot's of official government policies make no sense whatsoever. This is one of them. Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a good compromise at the time. I think it's time we take it a step further. I don't consider gays a sub-human species as some others seem to. There's no reason to believe that they can't serve in the military with just as much honor, dedication, competence, and distinction as anyone else.

You do not think it will cause unrest and problems amongst the other troops? Being a Marine is kind of a manly thing, I am not sure how it would go over if Gays were allowed to be one also? Fair or not, I see some serious problems in letting it happen.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
VanC said:
Lot's of official government policies make no sense whatsoever. This is one of them. Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a good compromise at the time. I think it's time we take it a step further. I don't consider gays a sub-human species as some others seem to. There's no reason to believe that they can't serve in the military with just as much honor, dedication, competence, and distinction as anyone else.

You do not think it will cause unrest and problems amongst the other troops? Being a Marine is kind of a manly thing, I am not sure how it would go over if Gays were allowed to be one also? Fair or not, I see some serious problems in letting it happen.


I would being a LEGAL citizen would rank higher in importance and security issues then being gay.
 

VanC

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
VanC said:
Lot's of official government policies make no sense whatsoever. This is one of them. Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a good compromise at the time. I think it's time we take it a step further. I don't consider gays a sub-human species as some others seem to. There's no reason to believe that they can't serve in the military with just as much honor, dedication, competence, and distinction as anyone else.

You do not think it will cause unrest and problems amongst the other troops? Being a Marine is kind of a manly thing, I am not sure how it would go over if Gays were allowed to be one also? Fair or not, I see some serious problems in letting it happen.

Sure, it would cause problems, but no more than when Major League baseball was integrated in 1947. No more than when the military was integrated by executive order in 1948. Some resisted, and some always will. But most came to accept it, and even to celebrate it. The problems caused by gays in the military could be overcome, just as those were. Exposure to different people tends to lessen the differences and emphasize the similarities, at least for most.

Believe it or not, not all gay men are pasty faced, effeminate, girlie-men that style hair and decorate home interiors. I've known a couple that, other than for the fact that they were gay, were as masculine as they come. One even saved my drunken, loud-mouthed butt in a bar fight many years ago. There are many more out there like that, we just don't know about most of them because, unless they tell us, there's no way to know.

You can bet that, right now, there are gays serving in every branch of the military, as well as playing Major League baseball, pro football and basketball, hockey, driving race cars, and participating in every other "manly" sport and activity you can name. They may be rare, but they're there, and they're every bit as good at it as anyone else. If not, they wouldn't be there to begin with. That's the thing about the military and professional sports. You either have the talent and dedication to do the job, or you don't. If you don't, you hit the road, gay or not. If they want to avoid the derision that would come their way by "coming out", I don't have a problem with that. But if they choose to be open about it, I don't have a problem with that, either.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
VanC said:
aplusmnt said:
VanC said:
Lot's of official government policies make no sense whatsoever. This is one of them. Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a good compromise at the time. I think it's time we take it a step further. I don't consider gays a sub-human species as some others seem to. There's no reason to believe that they can't serve in the military with just as much honor, dedication, competence, and distinction as anyone else.

You do not think it will cause unrest and problems amongst the other troops? Being a Marine is kind of a manly thing, I am not sure how it would go over if Gays were allowed to be one also? Fair or not, I see some serious problems in letting it happen.

Sure, it would cause problems, but no more than when Major League baseball was integrated in 1947. No more than when the military was integrated by executive order in 1948. Some resisted, and some always will. But most came to accept it, and even to celebrate it. The problems caused by gays in the military could be overcome, just as those were. Exposure to different people tends to lessen the differences and emphasize the similarities, at least for most.

Believe it or not, not all gay men are pasty faced, effeminate, girlie-men that style hair and decorate home interiors. I've known a couple that, other than for the fact that they were gay, were as masculine as they come. One even saved my drunken, loud-mouthed butt in a bar fight many years ago. There are many more out there like that, we just don't know about most of them because, unless they tell us, there's no way to know.

You can bet that, right now, there are gays serving in every branch of the military, as well as playing Major League baseball, pro football and basketball, hockey, driving race cars, and participating in every other "manly" sport and activity you can name. They may be rare, but they're there, and they're every bit as good at it as anyone else. If not, they wouldn't be there to begin with. That's the thing about the military and professional sports. You either have the talent and dedication to do the job, or you don't. If you don't, you hit the road, gay or not. If they want to avoid the derision that would come their way by "coming out", I don't have a problem with that. But if they choose to be open about it, I don't have a problem with that, either.

Good post Van- I agree.....I remember all the "fearmongering" that came out when they let women serve in the Armed Forces in any position besides being a nurse...You'd have thought the world was going to end by those that fear any change...Or even back to the old WASP unit...Some just couldn't buy the fact that a woman could fly and transport bombers and fighters around the country.....But they excelled- which eventually led to the WAF....
 

badaxemoo

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
Fair or not, I see some serious problems in letting it happen.

So did the segregationists before they the military was forced to allow blacks and whites to serve side-by-side in the same unit.
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
Hard to understand the objection to letting non-citizens enlist in the military. When I served some 50 years ago we had several soldiers who were becoming citizens serving with us. The normal track for aleins to become citizens is generally about 5 years.

At that time, serving a two year hitch in the military would get you citizenship. I guess putting your life on the line was pretty convincing.

What the hell is the objection when they proposing to grant citizenship to every one who comes into the country illegally, sucks up welfare and doesn't even speak the language.

We had gays in our unit long ago. For the most part it was no big deal - if they engaged in homosexual behavior and were caught, they were given a so-called Section 8 discharge.

Some straights probably used that to get out of the serviced!!!
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
VanC said:
aplusmnt said:
VanC said:
Lot's of official government policies make no sense whatsoever. This is one of them. Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was a good compromise at the time. I think it's time we take it a step further. I don't consider gays a sub-human species as some others seem to. There's no reason to believe that they can't serve in the military with just as much honor, dedication, competence, and distinction as anyone else.

You do not think it will cause unrest and problems amongst the other troops? Being a Marine is kind of a manly thing, I am not sure how it would go over if Gays were allowed to be one also? Fair or not, I see some serious problems in letting it happen.

Sure, it would cause problems, but no more than when Major League baseball was integrated in 1947. No more than when the military was integrated by executive order in 1948. Some resisted, and some always will. But most came to accept it, and even to celebrate it. The problems caused by gays in the military could be overcome, just as those were. Exposure to different people tends to lessen the differences and emphasize the similarities, at least for most.

Believe it or not, not all gay men are pasty faced, effeminate, girlie-men that style hair and decorate home interiors. I've known a couple that, other than for the fact that they were gay, were as masculine as they come. One even saved my drunken, loud-mouthed butt in a bar fight many years ago. There are many more out there like that, we just don't know about most of them because, unless they tell us, there's no way to know.

You can bet that, right now, there are gays serving in every branch of the military, as well as playing Major League baseball, pro football and basketball, hockey, driving race cars, and participating in every other "manly" sport and activity you can name. They may be rare, but they're there, and they're every bit as good at it as anyone else. If not, they wouldn't be there to begin with. That's the thing about the military and professional sports. You either have the talent and dedication to do the job, or you don't. If you don't, you hit the road, gay or not. If they want to avoid the derision that would come their way by "coming out", I don't have a problem with that. But if they choose to be open about it, I don't have a problem with that, either.

Fairly good points. But I view being gay as different from. I view it as the same as preferring to have sex with animals, or bondage etc...... I view it as a Sexual preference just like some people prefer sex with fat chicks and some with skinny chicks.

I do not see a gay person as having a right such as a black man playing in Major league baseball. I see them as having the right to do as they wish in their bedrooms, but when the bedroom and place they lay their head at night is within the Armed Forces I see that as a reason to deny them that privilege.

The Morality of the Armed Forces is more important than an individuals right to sexual preference!
 

alice

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
VanC said:
aplusmnt said:
You do not think it will cause unrest and problems amongst the other troops? Being a Marine is kind of a manly thing, I am not sure how it would go over if Gays were allowed to be one also? Fair or not, I see some serious problems in letting it happen.

Sure, it would cause problems, but no more than when Major League baseball was integrated in 1947. No more than when the military was integrated by executive order in 1948. Some resisted, and some always will. But most came to accept it, and even to celebrate it. The problems caused by gays in the military could be overcome, just as those were. Exposure to different people tends to lessen the differences and emphasize the similarities, at least for most.

Believe it or not, not all gay men are pasty faced, effeminate, girlie-men that style hair and decorate home interiors. I've known a couple that, other than for the fact that they were gay, were as masculine as they come. One even saved my drunken, loud-mouthed butt in a bar fight many years ago. There are many more out there like that, we just don't know about most of them because, unless they tell us, there's no way to know.

You can bet that, right now, there are gays serving in every branch of the military, as well as playing Major League baseball, pro football and basketball, hockey, driving race cars, and participating in every other "manly" sport and activity you can name. They may be rare, but they're there, and they're every bit as good at it as anyone else. If not, they wouldn't be there to begin with. That's the thing about the military and professional sports. You either have the talent and dedication to do the job, or you don't. If you don't, you hit the road, gay or not. If they want to avoid the derision that would come their way by "coming out", I don't have a problem with that. But if they choose to be open about it, I don't have a problem with that, either.

Fairly good points. But I view being gay as different from. I view it as the same as preferring to have sex with animals, or bondage etc...... I view it as a Sexual preference just like some people prefer sex with fat chicks and some with skinny chicks.

I do not see a gay person as having a right such as a black man playing in Major league baseball. I see them as having the right to do as they wish in their bedrooms, but when the bedroom and place they lay their head at night is within the Armed Forces I see that as a reason to deny them that privilege.

The Morality of the Armed Forces is more important than an individuals right to sexual preference!

Knowing there are people in this world like you does NOT give me hope.

Alice
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
alice said:
aplusmnt said:
VanC said:
Sure, it would cause problems, but no more than when Major League baseball was integrated in 1947. No more than when the military was integrated by executive order in 1948. Some resisted, and some always will. But most came to accept it, and even to celebrate it. The problems caused by gays in the military could be overcome, just as those were. Exposure to different people tends to lessen the differences and emphasize the similarities, at least for most.

Believe it or not, not all gay men are pasty faced, effeminate, girlie-men that style hair and decorate home interiors. I've known a couple that, other than for the fact that they were gay, were as masculine as they come. One even saved my drunken, loud-mouthed butt in a bar fight many years ago. There are many more out there like that, we just don't know about most of them because, unless they tell us, there's no way to know.

You can bet that, right now, there are gays serving in every branch of the military, as well as playing Major League baseball, pro football and basketball, hockey, driving race cars, and participating in every other "manly" sport and activity you can name. They may be rare, but they're there, and they're every bit as good at it as anyone else. If not, they wouldn't be there to begin with. That's the thing about the military and professional sports. You either have the talent and dedication to do the job, or you don't. If you don't, you hit the road, gay or not. If they want to avoid the derision that would come their way by "coming out", I don't have a problem with that. But if they choose to be open about it, I don't have a problem with that, either.

Fairly good points. But I view being gay as different from. I view it as the same as preferring to have sex with animals, or bondage etc...... I view it as a Sexual preference just like some people prefer sex with fat chicks and some with skinny chicks.

I do not see a gay person as having a right such as a black man playing in Major league baseball. I see them as having the right to do as they wish in their bedrooms, but when the bedroom and place they lay their head at night is within the Armed Forces I see that as a reason to deny them that privilege.

The Morality of the Armed Forces is more important than an individuals right to sexual preference!

Knowing there are people in this world like you does NOT give me hope.

Alice

I will take that as a compliment! :wink:
 

Silver

Well-known member
As far as non-citizens go, that's been going on for years. Yanks came up here by the thousands to sign up to fight ww1 and ww2, and I know many from up here that have done or are doing tours down there. Hel!, the French Foreign Legion was just that.... foreigners.
 
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