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34 WERE UNTRACEABLE

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Canada concludes search for BSE animals of interest
Tuesday, May 9, 2006, 11:50 AM

by Bob Meyer

The Canadian Food Safety and Inspection Agency (CFIA) has concluded the search for animals of interest in the latest case of BSE in the country. CFIA traced a total of 146 cattle from the affected animal’s feed cohort and its two offspring. They report of that group, 74 had died, 34 were untraceable due to lack of information, 23 live cattle were located and 15 were exported to the United States. Of the 23 live cattle, the Agency says they tested twelve head, all tests were negative. The remaining 11 head are being evaluated for compensation purposes and will be tested shortly. The Agency continues to investigate feed sources in the case.

This was the fifth case of BSE found in Canada. The six-year-old cow was first suspected on April 13th and confirmed positive on April 16th. Canadian officials say no part of the animal entered the animal or human food chain.

But they really cant say that the 34 that were untraceable with this Canadian super sonic "NAIS" were not your supper...................good luck
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Canada concludes search for BSE animals of interest
Tuesday, May 9, 2006, 11:50 AM

by Bob Meyer

The Canadian Food Safety and Inspection Agency (CFIA) has concluded the search for animals of interest in the latest case of BSE in the country. CFIA traced a total of 146 cattle from the affected animal’s feed cohort and its two offspring. They report of that group, 74 had died, 34 were untraceable due to lack of information, 23 live cattle were located and 15 were exported to the United States. Of the 23 live cattle, the Agency says they tested twelve head, all tests were negative. The remaining 11 head are being evaluated for compensation purposes and will be tested shortly. The Agency continues to investigate feed sources in the case.

This was the fifth case of BSE found in Canada. The six-year-old cow was first suspected on April 13th and confirmed positive on April 16th. Canadian officials say no part of the animal entered the animal or human food chain.

But they really cant say that the 34 that were untracable with this Canadian super sonic "NAIS" were not your supper...................good luck

Correct. There were animals missing and as you say - it can only be hoped none entered the food chain. Actually you did not say that - you simply wanted to gloat.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said for at least one found in the U.S. of A. And probably more if the truth were to be known.

Oh, what southern State was it that had no possible method of locating the animals associated with the home grown case of BSE?

No side of the border is infallible HAY MAKER - everyone knows that. At least the Canucks are doing something about it. Not a darned thing has happened in the U.S. of A. - other than talk.

Brands solve no issues - too may States, too much travel, too few recorded brands, no central registry and too many States that do not even TAG their cattle. Anyone who believe the brand is the be all and the end all is a total fool.

I can take any branded animal from a brand State and move it through the no brand States - and no way will it ever be identified back to its' origin. Better yet - lets move an animal that has at least three different brands on it. :D

It is my belief the U.S. of A. has been very lucky to date - and I hope that luck remains - otherwise Hay Maker, your smugness, superior attitude and your gloating may turn to groaning and whimpering. For all our sakes I hope this does not happen.

Good luck to you too - may you or any other cattleman never need it.

B.C.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMM,Touched a lil nerve huh Broke Cowboy,first I was not gloatin,all I posted is undisputable fact.
Second there has been more that one canadian packer advocate touting the greatness of the Canadian "Nais" I simply proved this is not true,everything is subject to failure.
I have said many times long term consequences for short term gain is unacceptable to the american cattle man,BSE is along way from being understood much less controlled,and untill it is some of us will proceed slowly,twist this into economics as you choose,but "BSE" is a food safety issuse,sorry if you got offended...............good luck
 

Tam

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMM,Touched a lil nerve huh Broke Cowboy,first I was not gloatin,all I posted is undisputable fact.
Second there has been more that one canadian packer advocate touting the greatness of the Canadian "Nais" I simply proved this is not true,everything is subject to failure.
I have said many times long term consequences for short term gain is unacceptable to the american cattle man ,BSE is along way from being understood much less controlled,and untill it is some of us will proceed slowly,twist this into economics as you choose,but "BSE" is a food safety issuse,sorry if you got offended...............good luck

OH COME ON :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
This coming from a very vocal member of an organization that only sees short term gain (record high cattle prices) and not the long term consequences of their actions (reaction to the fear mongering about IMPORTED beef) . :lol2: :lol2: Why did you and 18,000 :wink: other American Cattlemen accept R-CALF's short sighted claims against our beef, Haymaker? if this is a food safety issue then WHERE did R-CALF's short sighted claims, in a FEDERAL COURT OF LAW, of human health risk due to CANADIAN BEEF due to BSE go when BSE was found in the US NATIVE HERD? Were the long term consequences of using the food safety issue just to much to live with when BSE was found in the US herd and that is when you put your foot down and long term consequences for short term gain became unacceptable? :wink: :lol2:
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Miss Tam,I see you been taking diversion lessons from the great SH while I was away,I was stateing facts about your infamous NAIS program,all this time you been telling me how the american cattle man needs to pattern our system around yours ? No thanks,no telling where those 34 head of cattle wound up,maybe on your dinner plate ? ...........good luck
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
But they really cant say that the 34 that were untraceable with this Canadian super sonic "NAIS" were not your supper...................good luck

One who lives in glass houses should not cast stones. How many of those Alabama animals (cohorts and offspring) were traced? Our NAIS isn't perfect by a long shot, but its also a far cry better than some other systems or no system and is one of the reasons our beef is considered safe.

Rod
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
DiamondSCattleCo said:
HAY MAKER said:
But they really cant say that the 34 that were untraceable with this Canadian super sonic "NAIS" were not your supper...................good luck

One who lives in glass houses should not cast stones. How many of those Alabama animals (cohorts and offspring) were traced? Our NAIS isn't perfect by a long shot, but its also a far cry better than some other systems or no system and is one of the reasons our beef is considered safe.

Rod

I dont live in a glass house and I aint throwin stones,its obvious to anyone with a lil common sense there is plenty room for improvement on both sides of the border,that is why we say minimize the imports so we can better control the out breaks,it just makes it easier to trace back when you are searching a defined area..............good luck
 

Tam

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Miss Tam,I see you been taking diversion lessons from the great SH while I was away,I was stateing facts about your infamous NAIS program,all this time you been telling me how the american cattle man needs to pattern our system around yours ? No thanks,no telling where those 34 head of cattle wound up,maybe on your dinner plate ? ...........good luck

Hey Haymaker have you eaten any Alabama cow meat lately? Oh wait the USDA wasn't able to find the birthplace were they? she could have come from TEXAS like the other US NATIVE COW did. But then I doubt the 15 year old Texas cow ate from the feed source as the 10 year old Alabama cow. Oh but wait the Alabama cow was maybe older or maybe younger we are not sure about that either are we? But if she was ten then that would make this a pre feed ban incidence so I guess we will just claim she was over ten right Haymaker. :wink: Do we know where the source of contamination came from? NO BECAUSE WE DON"T KNOW WHERE THE ANIMAL WAS BORN AND RAISED DO WE HAYMAKER? Do we know how many head of cattle were involved? NO BECAUSE WE DON"T KNOW WHERE SHE CAME FROM OR HOW OLD SHE REALLY WAS DO WE? Great system you have Haymaker I would not post about the short falls of a system that may have missed a KNOWN NUMBER of cattle when you have a system that missed ALL THE CATTLE INVOLVED. AND THE SOURCE OF CONTAMINATION :wink:

By the way how is the USDA doing on finding the 15 head that were exported to the US?
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMM,Touched a lil nerve huh Broke Cowboy,first I was not gloatin,all I posted is undisputable fact.
Second there has been more that one canadian packer advocate touting the greatness of the Canadian "Nais" I simply proved this is not true,everything is subject to failure.
I have said many times long term consequences for short term gain is unacceptable to the american cattle man,BSE is along way from being understood much less controlled,and untill it is some of us will proceed slowly,twist this into economics as you choose,but "BSE" is a food safety issuse,sorry if you got offended...............good luck

You also wrote:

But they really cant say that the 34 that were untraceable with this Canadian super sonic "NAIS" were not your supper...................good luck

Well you did touch a nerve and if you meant it, I accept your apology.

You might note my comments were not one sided - in fact I figured they were pretty fair. My closing line from my original post:

Good luck to you too - may you or any other cattleman never need it.

I believe this shows were I stand. Hopefully no one wil require luck to survive the next few years - even though I know several who will have to work pretty hard to keep what they have.

B.C.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Miss Tam,I see you been taking diversion lessons from the great SH while I was away,I was stateing facts about your infamous NAIS program,all this time you been telling me how the american cattle man needs to pattern our system around yours ? No thanks,no telling where those 34 head of cattle wound up,maybe on your dinner plate ? ...........good luck

Hey Haymaker have you eaten any Alabama cow meat lately? Oh wait the USDA wasn't able to find the birthplace were they? she could have come from TEXAS like the other US NATIVE COW did. But then I doubt the 15 year old Texas cow ate from the feed source as the 10 year old Alabama cow. Oh but wait the Alabama cow was maybe older or maybe younger we are not sure about that either are we? But if she was ten then that would make this a pre feed ban incidence so I guess we will just claim she was over ten right Haymaker. :wink: Do we know where the source of contamination came from? NO BECAUSE WE DON"T KNOW WHERE THE ANIMAL WAS BORN AND RAISED DO WE HAYMAKER? Do we know how many head of cattle were involved? NO BECAUSE WE DON"T KNOW WHERE SHE CAME FROM OR HOW OLD SHE REALLY WAS DO WE? Great system you have Haymaker I would not post about the short falls of a system that may have missed a KNOWN NUMBER of cattle when you have a system that missed ALL THE CATTLE INVOLVED. AND THE SOURCE OF CONTAMINATION :wink:

By the way how is the USDA doing on finding the 15 head that were exported to the US?


Blah Blah Blah,same Miss Tam adding to subtracting from, lets see you source some of this "BS" you post, you act like you are up ta speed on the Alabama cow,post the confirmed source & results.................good luck
PS Facts are facts your so called Nais fits about like a choir robe on a skinny packer..............good luck
 

Tam

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Tam said:
HAY MAKER said:
Miss Tam,I see you been taking diversion lessons from the great SH while I was away,I was stateing facts about your infamous NAIS program,all this time you been telling me how the american cattle man needs to pattern our system around yours ? No thanks,no telling where those 34 head of cattle wound up,maybe on your dinner plate ? ...........good luck

Hey Haymaker have you eaten any Alabama cow meat lately? Oh wait the USDA wasn't able to find the birthplace were they? she could have come from TEXAS like the other US NATIVE COW did. But then I doubt the 15 year old Texas cow ate from the feed source as the 10 year old Alabama cow. Oh but wait the Alabama cow was maybe older or maybe younger we are not sure about that either are we? But if she was ten then that would make this a pre feed ban incidence so I guess we will just claim she was over ten right Haymaker. :wink: Do we know where the source of contamination came from? NO BECAUSE WE DON"T KNOW WHERE THE ANIMAL WAS BORN AND RAISED DO WE HAYMAKER? Do we know how many head of cattle were involved? NO BECAUSE WE DON"T KNOW WHERE SHE CAME FROM OR HOW OLD SHE REALLY WAS DO WE? Great system you have Haymaker I would not post about the short falls of a system that may have missed a KNOWN NUMBER of cattle when you have a system that missed ALL THE CATTLE INVOLVED. AND THE SOURCE OF CONTAMINATION :wink:

By the way how is the USDA doing on finding the 15 head that were exported to the US?


Blah Blah Blah,same Miss Tam adding to subtracting from, lets see you source some of this "BS" you post, you act like you are up ta speed on the Alabama cow,post the confirmed source & results.................good luck
PS Facts are facts your so called Nais fits about like a choir robe on a skinny packer..............good luck

Snips from the final report

Statement by USDA Chief Veterinary Officer John Clifford Regarding the Conclusion of the Epidemiological Investigation Into a Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE)-Positive Cow Found in Alabama
May 2, 2006

“(APHIS) and (FDA) have completed their investigations regarding a cow that tested positive for bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in Alabama in March. Both agencies conducted their investigations in collaboration with the Alabama Department of Agriculture and Industries.

“Our results indicate that the positive animal, called the index animal, was a red crossbreed. This animal was non-ambulatory on the farm,

through dentition, an examination of its teeth, determined the animal to be more than 10 years old. It was born prior to the implementation of FDA’s 1997 feed ban that minimizes the risk that a cow might consume feed contaminated with the agent thought to cause BSE.

“APHIS and Alabama State officials investigated 36 farms and 5 auction houses and conducted DNA testing on herds that may have included relatives of the index animal. APHIS and State investigators were unable to find any related animals except for the two most recent calves of the index animal. The most recent calf was located at the same farm as the index animal and the second calf died the year before. No other animals of interest were located. The living calf of the BSE-positive animal is currently being held at APHIS’ National Veterinary Services Laboratory in Ames, Iowa, for observation.

APHIS’ investigation did not reveal the BSE-positive animal’s herd of origin. However, this was not entirely unexpected due to the age of the animal, along with its lack of identifying brands, tattoos and tags.

“To ensure that adequate feed controls were in place in the feed facilities in the immediate geographic area of the index farm, FDA conducted a feed investigation into local feed mills that may have supplied feed to the index animal after the 1997 feed ban. This investigation found that all local feed mills that handle prohibited materials have been and continue to be in compliance with the FDA’s feed ban.


Now tell us Haymaker what do you really know about this cow, where she came from, her real age, where she came into contact with the contaminated feed or how many other cows came into contact with the same feed source? If the APHIS and the FDA don't know for sure where she came from or for sure how old she is (more than ten years well was she twelve or fifteen) how can they know that they inspected all the feed plants in the geographic area where she actually came into contact with BSE? How do they know what other cattle to DNA test, she could have come from another State. And even if she did have a brand WHICH SHE DIDN"T how would you have known if it was a unregistered Alabama brand or a Texas or Mississippi brand. That is the problem with your hot brand ID system IT DOESN"T WORK. AND as far as our choir robe goes do you know what CYA stands for, well at least we had one and it was long enough unlike you necktie which is getting tighter and tigher around your necks with every new cases of BSE. :wink:
 

ranch hand

Well-known member
You would check the brand to the states that had it registered and then pursue your records that the brand people of that state had. IF all states had a brand as M'ID it would be easier as the movement of cows would all be recorded. Every time a branded animal moves out of county in my state there is a record of it in the state brand office.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Can you not understand your post Miss Tam ?........................



APHIS and State investigators were unable to find any related animals except for the two most recent calves of the index animal. The most recent calf was located at the same farm as the index animal and the second calf died the year before. No other animals of interest were located. The living calf of the BSE-positive animal is currently being held at APHIS’ National Veterinary Services Laboratory in Ames, Iowa, for observation.


NO RELATED ANIMALS,..........NO OTHER ANIMALS OF INTEREST, the differnce between this cow and your "NAIS"to locate 34 animals that were directly related and or consumed the same feed,and not located because of ........listen closely now Miss Tam,34 were not located ,due to lack of information,is like comparing nite to day...................good luck
 

Bill

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
Can you not understand your post Miss Tam ?........................



APHIS and State investigators were unable to find any related animals except for the two most recent calves of the index animal. The most recent calf was located at the same farm as the index animal and the second calf died the year before. No other animals of interest were located. The living calf of the BSE-positive animal is currently being held at APHIS’ National Veterinary Services Laboratory in Ames, Iowa, for observation.


NO RELATED ANIMALS,..........NO OTHER ANIMALS OF INTEREST, the differnce between this cow and your "NAIS"to locate 34 animals that were directly related and or consumed the same feed,and not located because of ........listen closely now Miss Tam,34 were not located ,due to lack of information,is like comparing nite to day...................good luck

Convenient of you to leave this part out as usual.
“APHIS’ investigation did not reveal the BSE-positive animal’s herd of origin.
What part of that don't you understand. They don't know where she was born or how many herds she resided in.

Was she from a herd of 3 or 34 or 340 or 3400?

I would agree it is like comparing night and day and it's obvious who is the one in the dark.
 

ranch hand

Well-known member
Bill said:
HAY MAKER said:
Can you not understand your post Miss Tam ?........................



APHIS and State investigators were unable to find any related animals except for the two most recent calves of the index animal. The most recent calf was located at the same farm as the index animal and the second calf died the year before. No other animals of interest were located. The living calf of the BSE-positive animal is currently being held at APHIS’ National Veterinary Services Laboratory in Ames, Iowa, for observation.


NO RELATED ANIMALS,..........NO OTHER ANIMALS OF INTEREST, the differnce between this cow and your "NAIS"to locate 34 animals that were directly related and or consumed the same feed,and not located because of ........listen closely now Miss Tam,34 were not located ,due to lack of information,is like comparing nite to day...................good luck

Convenient of you to leave this part out as usual.
“APHIS’ investigation did not reveal the BSE-positive animal’s herd of origin.
What part of that don't you understand. They don't know where she was born or how many herds she resided in.

Was she from a herd of 3 or 34 or 340 or 3400?

I would agree it is like comparing night and day and it's obvious who is the one in the dark.


Bill you can only ID her to the herd she was born in, not all following places she may have resided at. If the other herd mates were sold then how do you trace them on? Do ALL of you keep records of who and where any animals you buy come from?
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Bill I guess we can sumarize and end this post with the facts............you have several cases of post feed ban violations that have resulted in cattle testing positive for "BSE", I have none, and the sooner you start complying with the feed ban, the sooner "OTM" cattle will be allowed in the country PERIOD!!!..............good luck
 

PORKER

Well-known member
Your expensive system would work better if you had ScoringAg and It would be Cheaper
Bill you can only ID her to the herd she was born in, not all following places she may have resided at. If the other herd mates were sold then how do you trace them on? Do ALL of you keep records of who and where any animals you buy come from?

Nope
 

Bill

Well-known member
PORKER said:
Your expensive system would work better if you had ScoringAg and It would be Cheaper
Bill you can only ID her to the herd she was born in, not all following places she may have resided at. If the other herd mates were sold then how do you trace them on? Do ALL of you keep records of who and where any animals you buy come from?

Nope
Some do. Has anyone said all Canadian cattle could be? Fact is that even with more Canadian cases than the US, the Canadian systme has worked far better than the imaginary system the US claims to have.

Heck even after two totally embarassing tracouts many on this site still can't see a need for a US MID system. "COOL is all that's needed!!" (As long as it doesn't have to be labeled American.) :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
WE have kept total cattle records since the inception of the bar code tags. Cattle coming in and cattle going out. All incase of a disease outbreak. And a lot of other people have done this as well. So Haymaker put that in your pipe and smoke it....... :twisted:
 
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