Mike
Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Charlie's getting down. :lol:
9/11 Truthers thread
- Thread starter lightninboy
- Start date
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Charlie's getting down. :lol:
hypocritexposer
Well-known member
Mike
Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
That's a reasonable deduction. :wink:
Larrry
Well-known member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkO3dUGHMT8&feature=related
hypocritexposer
Well-known member
"lightninboy, people look at you today, 20 years later, and they still have no idea what you're about. Tell me in a sentence who you are?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgigWnOG29E&feature=related
"Nobody, I'm nobody. I'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo, I'm a boxcar and a jug of wine"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgigWnOG29E&feature=related
"Nobody, I'm nobody. I'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo, I'm a boxcar and a jug of wine"
Faster horses
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 30,240
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- 1,423
A large jet plane crashed on a farm in the middle of rural Kentucky. Panic stricken, the local sheriff mobilized and descended on the farm in force.
By the time they got there, the aircraft was totally destroyed with only a burned hull left smoldering in a tree line that bordered the farm.
The sheriff and his men entered the smoking mess but could find no remains of anyone. They spotted the farmer plowing a field not too far away as if nothing had happened. They hurried over to the man's tractor.
"Hank," the sheriff yelled, panting and out of breath. "Did you see this terrible accident happen?" "Yep. Sure did," the farmer mumbled unconcerned, cutting off the tractor's engine.
"Do you realize that is Air Force One, the airplane of the President of the United States ?"
"Yep."
"Were there any survivors?"
"Nope. They's all kilt straight out," the farmer answered. "I done
buried them all myself. Took me most of the morning."
"President Obama is dead?" the sheriff asked.
"Well," the farmer grumbled, restarting his tractor.
"He kept a-saying he wasn't... But you know how bad that sumbitch lies
By the time they got there, the aircraft was totally destroyed with only a burned hull left smoldering in a tree line that bordered the farm.
The sheriff and his men entered the smoking mess but could find no remains of anyone. They spotted the farmer plowing a field not too far away as if nothing had happened. They hurried over to the man's tractor.
"Hank," the sheriff yelled, panting and out of breath. "Did you see this terrible accident happen?" "Yep. Sure did," the farmer mumbled unconcerned, cutting off the tractor's engine.
"Do you realize that is Air Force One, the airplane of the President of the United States ?"
"Yep."
"Were there any survivors?"
"Nope. They's all kilt straight out," the farmer answered. "I done
buried them all myself. Took me most of the morning."
"President Obama is dead?" the sheriff asked.
"Well," the farmer grumbled, restarting his tractor.
"He kept a-saying he wasn't... But you know how bad that sumbitch lies
Faster horses
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 30,240
- Reaction score
- 1,423
This was on Yahoo today. LB and shameui, I DARE you to read
and watch the video.
...
.Pregnant Flight 93 victim honored by husband's lasting tribute
.http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-flight-93-victim-honored-by-husband-s-lasting-tribute.html
.
Ten years after her death on Sept. 11, 2001, Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas still inspires people. That's not an accident. Her husband, Jack, insists that her legacy be a living one.
Lauren -- along with 39 other passengers and the flight crew -- died when United Flight 93, having been hijacked by terrorists, went down in a field near Shanksville, Pa. It was the flight that fought back against the attackers, preventing the plane from reaching its target in Washington, D.C. The heroism of those passengers -- and their battle cry, "Let's Roll"-- lives on as part of the tragic story of 9/11.
For Jack, the sudden death of his wife carried additional grief. Lauren, 38, was pregnant, and Jack, suddenly without his family, was thrust into a world of pain and loneliness, engulfed by a dark depression. It was Lauren's spirit, in many ways, that gave him the strength he needed to fight his way out of it.
When Lauren turned 30, Jack remembers, she wanted to do something adventurous: skydiving. Jack says Lauren encouraged him to try it as well. And he did.
Jack and Lauren Grandcolas.
That was Lauren, celebrating through doing -- and inviting someone along for the ride. To honor her spirit, Jack and Lauren's family started the Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas Foundation, a philanthropic organization that helps people attain their life goals. One of the foundation's key acts is financially supporting a state-of-the-art birthing room at Marin General Hospital in Greenbrae, Calif.
For Jack, helping hundreds of babies come into the world transformed what had been a personal tragedy into something truly life affirming. Today, he proudly looks back at the families the foundation has helped start off on the right foot.
But he didn't stop there. Jack and Lauren's sisters decided to finish a book project Lauren had dreamed of completing. The book, "You Can Do It!: The Merit Badge Handbook for Grown-Up Girls," was published in 2005 by Chronicle Books. It's targeted at women who want to learn new skills or try new things such as photography, scuba diving or training for a triathlon.
[ Photos: Images of the Flight 93 Memorial ]
As the 10th anniversary of 9/11 approaches, Jack understands the importance of remembering and memorializing the tragic events surrounding 9/11. For him, what stood out the most about Lauren was her way of rejecting passivity and taking hold of life.
Even as she faced death, Jack believes, Lauren must have taken action on tragic Flight 93. Lauren, a trained emergency medical technician, would certainly have aided someone in need, Jack says. For him, the life story of Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas is one of jumping in and acting on her beliefs. It's a legacy that he, along with Lauren's family, hopes to continue to share with as many people as possible.
and watch the video.
...
.Pregnant Flight 93 victim honored by husband's lasting tribute
.http://news.yahoo.com/pregnant-flight-93-victim-honored-by-husband-s-lasting-tribute.html
.
Ten years after her death on Sept. 11, 2001, Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas still inspires people. That's not an accident. Her husband, Jack, insists that her legacy be a living one.
Lauren -- along with 39 other passengers and the flight crew -- died when United Flight 93, having been hijacked by terrorists, went down in a field near Shanksville, Pa. It was the flight that fought back against the attackers, preventing the plane from reaching its target in Washington, D.C. The heroism of those passengers -- and their battle cry, "Let's Roll"-- lives on as part of the tragic story of 9/11.
For Jack, the sudden death of his wife carried additional grief. Lauren, 38, was pregnant, and Jack, suddenly without his family, was thrust into a world of pain and loneliness, engulfed by a dark depression. It was Lauren's spirit, in many ways, that gave him the strength he needed to fight his way out of it.
When Lauren turned 30, Jack remembers, she wanted to do something adventurous: skydiving. Jack says Lauren encouraged him to try it as well. And he did.
Jack and Lauren Grandcolas.
That was Lauren, celebrating through doing -- and inviting someone along for the ride. To honor her spirit, Jack and Lauren's family started the Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas Foundation, a philanthropic organization that helps people attain their life goals. One of the foundation's key acts is financially supporting a state-of-the-art birthing room at Marin General Hospital in Greenbrae, Calif.
For Jack, helping hundreds of babies come into the world transformed what had been a personal tragedy into something truly life affirming. Today, he proudly looks back at the families the foundation has helped start off on the right foot.
But he didn't stop there. Jack and Lauren's sisters decided to finish a book project Lauren had dreamed of completing. The book, "You Can Do It!: The Merit Badge Handbook for Grown-Up Girls," was published in 2005 by Chronicle Books. It's targeted at women who want to learn new skills or try new things such as photography, scuba diving or training for a triathlon.
[ Photos: Images of the Flight 93 Memorial ]
As the 10th anniversary of 9/11 approaches, Jack understands the importance of remembering and memorializing the tragic events surrounding 9/11. For him, what stood out the most about Lauren was her way of rejecting passivity and taking hold of life.
Even as she faced death, Jack believes, Lauren must have taken action on tragic Flight 93. Lauren, a trained emergency medical technician, would certainly have aided someone in need, Jack says. For him, the life story of Lauren Catuzzi Grandcolas is one of jumping in and acting on her beliefs. It's a legacy that he, along with Lauren's family, hopes to continue to share with as many people as possible.
lightninboy
Well-known member
9/11: The Conspiracy Files, BBC Two, 18 February 2007
The Conspiracy Files was a series of four programmes exploring the conspiracy theories that have entered the mainstream surrounding some of the biggest Western news stories of recent years.
• The programme showed a clear and deliberate negative bias against those who describe themselves as the 9/11 truth movement.
• There was a deliberate intent to misrepresent the discoveries of the 9/11 truth movement. These show beyond doubt that the official US government version of events of that day was fraudulent. The producers of the programme had no intention of supporting a version of events of that day which conflicted with the official US report.
• There were 13 debunkers interviewed and only 3 9/11 truthers.
• The explanation in the programme of the collapse of the twin towers (thepancake theory) put forward by Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics has been proven by scientists in the truth movement to be unscientific and in violation of the laws of physics. If the towers had collapsed in pancake form, large floor areas would have remained intact with pieces of concrete of varying sizes. There was no mention in the programme that all three buildings fell at freefall velocity and that no steel framed building had ever collapsed due to fires prior to or since 9/11.
• If the towers had collapsed in pancake form then by the programme's own graphic demonstration they would have taken more than 50 seconds to fall.
• In addition the temperature of the burning jet fuel was nowhere near the temperature needed to melt the central support columns of the twin towers.
• The interview with Col. Steve O'Brien, pilot of the military plane flying over Washington cannot be relied on. The programme did not mention or question him about the Pentagon's missile defences which failed to be deployed that day.
• The programme did not explain the lack of debris at the crash site of Flight 93. The evidence of eye-witnesses lacked credibility. If the Boeing 757 had crashed at that location there would have been substantial debris.
• The evidence of the coroner Wally Miller was unreliable because he changed his original story.
• The programme claimed that debris was not found 8 miles away when local officials and the FBI clearly stated that it was.
• The BBC is on record through a live interview with a BBC correspondent in New York as having had prior warning of the collapse of Building 7. This is further evidence that the building did not collapse as a result of structural failure.
• When Building 7 fell to the ground the programme stated there were no casualties. However a secret service agent Craig Miller died as a result of that collapse.
• No mention was made that two aircraft landed at Cleveland Hopkins Airport due to two separate bomb threats, and that Flight 93 was one of those reported to have landed by locals.
• The use of the claim that 4000 Jews stayed away from work on 9/11 suggests that those undertaking independent investigations of 9/11 are somehow anti-Semitic.
• The programme attempted to influence viewers by ending with the phrase: "The evidence points to a conspiracy after 9/11, not before. The other 9/11 conspiracy theories are just that, theories. The evidence doesn't support them. Case closed."
• The programme omitted to include and investigate an "FBI report" on wreckage found 8 miles away in New Baltimore.
• Regardless of how it got there, it is officially acknowledged that debris from Flight 93 was found 8 miles away – in New Baltimore, not Indian Lake. The documentary misleads the viewer and misrepresents the 9/11 truth movement by stating that "it's claimed Indian Lake is nearly 7 miles from the crash site" then stating it's only 1 mile away as the crow flies. The truth movement though isn't referring to Indian lake but to New Baltimore.
President Bush:
"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of Sept 11th."
http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/bbc-911-conspiracy-files-appeal-hearing-results/2544/
The Conspiracy Files was a series of four programmes exploring the conspiracy theories that have entered the mainstream surrounding some of the biggest Western news stories of recent years.
• The programme showed a clear and deliberate negative bias against those who describe themselves as the 9/11 truth movement.
• There was a deliberate intent to misrepresent the discoveries of the 9/11 truth movement. These show beyond doubt that the official US government version of events of that day was fraudulent. The producers of the programme had no intention of supporting a version of events of that day which conflicted with the official US report.
• There were 13 debunkers interviewed and only 3 9/11 truthers.
• The explanation in the programme of the collapse of the twin towers (thepancake theory) put forward by Davin Coburn of Popular Mechanics has been proven by scientists in the truth movement to be unscientific and in violation of the laws of physics. If the towers had collapsed in pancake form, large floor areas would have remained intact with pieces of concrete of varying sizes. There was no mention in the programme that all three buildings fell at freefall velocity and that no steel framed building had ever collapsed due to fires prior to or since 9/11.
• If the towers had collapsed in pancake form then by the programme's own graphic demonstration they would have taken more than 50 seconds to fall.
• In addition the temperature of the burning jet fuel was nowhere near the temperature needed to melt the central support columns of the twin towers.
• The interview with Col. Steve O'Brien, pilot of the military plane flying over Washington cannot be relied on. The programme did not mention or question him about the Pentagon's missile defences which failed to be deployed that day.
• The programme did not explain the lack of debris at the crash site of Flight 93. The evidence of eye-witnesses lacked credibility. If the Boeing 757 had crashed at that location there would have been substantial debris.
• The evidence of the coroner Wally Miller was unreliable because he changed his original story.
• The programme claimed that debris was not found 8 miles away when local officials and the FBI clearly stated that it was.
• The BBC is on record through a live interview with a BBC correspondent in New York as having had prior warning of the collapse of Building 7. This is further evidence that the building did not collapse as a result of structural failure.
• When Building 7 fell to the ground the programme stated there were no casualties. However a secret service agent Craig Miller died as a result of that collapse.
• No mention was made that two aircraft landed at Cleveland Hopkins Airport due to two separate bomb threats, and that Flight 93 was one of those reported to have landed by locals.
• The use of the claim that 4000 Jews stayed away from work on 9/11 suggests that those undertaking independent investigations of 9/11 are somehow anti-Semitic.
• The programme attempted to influence viewers by ending with the phrase: "The evidence points to a conspiracy after 9/11, not before. The other 9/11 conspiracy theories are just that, theories. The evidence doesn't support them. Case closed."
• The programme omitted to include and investigate an "FBI report" on wreckage found 8 miles away in New Baltimore.
• Regardless of how it got there, it is officially acknowledged that debris from Flight 93 was found 8 miles away – in New Baltimore, not Indian Lake. The documentary misleads the viewer and misrepresents the 9/11 truth movement by stating that "it's claimed Indian Lake is nearly 7 miles from the crash site" then stating it's only 1 mile away as the crow flies. The truth movement though isn't referring to Indian lake but to New Baltimore.
President Bush:
"Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of Sept 11th."
http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/bbc-911-conspiracy-files-appeal-hearing-results/2544/
lightninboy
Well-known member
So?Faster horses said:
lightninboy
Well-known member
History Commons
Investigators say they have found debris from the Flight 93 crash far from the main crash site. A second debris field centers around Indian Lake about three miles from the crash scene, where eyewitnesses report seeing falling debris only moments after the crash. More debris is found in New Baltimore, some eight miles away. Later in the day, the investigators say all that debris likely was blown there.
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/penn.attack/
http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp
Another debris field is found six miles away, and human remains are found miles away. State police and the FBI have cordoned off an area where there is plane debris, about six to eight miles from the main crash site. After all of this is discovered, the FBI still "stresses" that "no evidence [has] surfaced" to support the idea that the plane was shot down.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/bn.01.html
http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp
A half-ton piece of one of the engines is found 2,000 yards away from the main crash site. This was the single heaviest piece recovered from the crash.
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/philadelphiadailynews_122801.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/unanswered-questions-the-mystery-of-flight-93-639770.html
Days later, the FBI says the wide debris field was probably the result of the explosion on impact. The Independent nevertheless later cites the wide debris field as one of many reasons why widespread rumors remain that the plane was shot down.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-jets-were-just-eight-minutes-away-from-shooting-down-hijacked-plane-670044.html
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091301debrisfield#a091301debrisfield
Investigators say they have found debris from the Flight 93 crash far from the main crash site. A second debris field centers around Indian Lake about three miles from the crash scene, where eyewitnesses report seeing falling debris only moments after the crash. More debris is found in New Baltimore, some eight miles away. Later in the day, the investigators say all that debris likely was blown there.
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/penn.attack/
http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp
Another debris field is found six miles away, and human remains are found miles away. State police and the FBI have cordoned off an area where there is plane debris, about six to eight miles from the main crash site. After all of this is discovered, the FBI still "stresses" that "no evidence [has] surfaced" to support the idea that the plane was shot down.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/13/bn.01.html
http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp
A half-ton piece of one of the engines is found 2,000 yards away from the main crash site. This was the single heaviest piece recovered from the crash.
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/philadelphiadailynews_122801.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/unanswered-questions-the-mystery-of-flight-93-639770.html
Days later, the FBI says the wide debris field was probably the result of the explosion on impact. The Independent nevertheless later cites the wide debris field as one of many reasons why widespread rumors remain that the plane was shot down.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-jets-were-just-eight-minutes-away-from-shooting-down-hijacked-plane-670044.html
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091301debrisfield#a091301debrisfield
lightninboy
Well-known member
America Under Attack: FBI and State Police Cordon Off Debris Area Six to Eight Miles from Crater Where Plane Went Down
"DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we want to take our viewers live to Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Our Brian Cabell is standing by. This of course is the site where United Airlines flight 93 crashed on its way from Newark to San Francisco, crashed on Tuesday, and I understand, in this investigation, there's some breaking news. Brian, what can you tell us?
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, in the last hour or so, the FBI and the state police here have confirmed that have they cordoned off a second area about six to eight miles away from the crater here where plane went down. This is apparently another debris site, which raises a number of questions. Why would debris from the plane -- and they identified it specifically as being from this plane -- why would debris be located 6 miles away. Could it have blown that far away. It seems highly unlikely. Almost all the debris found at this site is within 100 yards, 200 yards, so it raises some question. We don't want to overspeculate of course. But there were some cell phone callers, one cell phone caller in particular, who said saw a bomb, or something that looked like a bomb with one of the hijackers. Also, the man who took over the plane apparently announced at one point, he had -- there was a bomb on board the plane.
Again, we don't want to speculate, we don't want to jump to conclusions. But what we do know is that there's a site about half mile behind me, where the plane went down, where most of the debris is, and then about six miles away up by a lake, there is another area that's been cordoned off, and state police and the FBI have said definitely there is debris from the plane located there. We have a crew on the way right now. We should have pictures of that a little bit later on.
KAGAN: Which was first question, so I'll move on to my next one, Brian.
WE don't want to speculate about this large debris field. But it seems to me from covering a number of plane crashes on the scene, that if nothing else, this is not typical for a plane crash to be spread across an area this large.
CABELL: It's certainly doesn't make sense, because most of the debris has been found in a very compact area, within 100 yards, 200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that. Then all of a sudden they're telling us six miles away, they have another concentration of debris, very small pieces. Most peoples here no bigger than the size of briefcase. The debris six miles away may be smaller. We have talked to a number of individuals here. They say they have talked to people who saw this plane during the final moments. They haven't confirmed whether they saw -- whether they talked to anybody who saw this plane actually land, or crash rather, and as to whether it broke up on the way, we don't know that. The FBI being very tight-lipped about that.
But again, at It leads to that possibility. It certainly leads to a number of questions.
KAGAN: You mentioned they have yet to find the black box. It would seems to me when you compare the four plane crashes of Tuesday, this would be the site where they would be most likely to find a black box.
CABELL: That's what they told us initially, and I think they're somewhat disappointed they haven't found it. It's been 48 hours, but they are still hopeful they will find it. There is a pond nearby this particular site. They may have to send divers into the pond. They haven't done that yet, but conceivably, it could be in the pond, it could be anywhere, it could be at this other debris side. They've also found some other debris scattered around this area. They say in fact some individuals have been collecting it. Again, we're talking about very, very tiny parts. The biggest part they found at this site is an engine, an engine part, and most of the other pieces are probably no bigger than this particular notebook.
So again, very small pieces. They had hoped to find the black box by now. They're still voicing optimism they will find it."
-CNN (09/13/01)
http://www.angelfire.com/un/mktg889/flight93.html
"DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we want to take our viewers live to Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Our Brian Cabell is standing by. This of course is the site where United Airlines flight 93 crashed on its way from Newark to San Francisco, crashed on Tuesday, and I understand, in this investigation, there's some breaking news. Brian, what can you tell us?
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, in the last hour or so, the FBI and the state police here have confirmed that have they cordoned off a second area about six to eight miles away from the crater here where plane went down. This is apparently another debris site, which raises a number of questions. Why would debris from the plane -- and they identified it specifically as being from this plane -- why would debris be located 6 miles away. Could it have blown that far away. It seems highly unlikely. Almost all the debris found at this site is within 100 yards, 200 yards, so it raises some question. We don't want to overspeculate of course. But there were some cell phone callers, one cell phone caller in particular, who said saw a bomb, or something that looked like a bomb with one of the hijackers. Also, the man who took over the plane apparently announced at one point, he had -- there was a bomb on board the plane.
Again, we don't want to speculate, we don't want to jump to conclusions. But what we do know is that there's a site about half mile behind me, where the plane went down, where most of the debris is, and then about six miles away up by a lake, there is another area that's been cordoned off, and state police and the FBI have said definitely there is debris from the plane located there. We have a crew on the way right now. We should have pictures of that a little bit later on.
KAGAN: Which was first question, so I'll move on to my next one, Brian.
WE don't want to speculate about this large debris field. But it seems to me from covering a number of plane crashes on the scene, that if nothing else, this is not typical for a plane crash to be spread across an area this large.
CABELL: It's certainly doesn't make sense, because most of the debris has been found in a very compact area, within 100 yards, 200 yards, maybe a little bit beyond that. Then all of a sudden they're telling us six miles away, they have another concentration of debris, very small pieces. Most peoples here no bigger than the size of briefcase. The debris six miles away may be smaller. We have talked to a number of individuals here. They say they have talked to people who saw this plane during the final moments. They haven't confirmed whether they saw -- whether they talked to anybody who saw this plane actually land, or crash rather, and as to whether it broke up on the way, we don't know that. The FBI being very tight-lipped about that.
But again, at It leads to that possibility. It certainly leads to a number of questions.
KAGAN: You mentioned they have yet to find the black box. It would seems to me when you compare the four plane crashes of Tuesday, this would be the site where they would be most likely to find a black box.
CABELL: That's what they told us initially, and I think they're somewhat disappointed they haven't found it. It's been 48 hours, but they are still hopeful they will find it. There is a pond nearby this particular site. They may have to send divers into the pond. They haven't done that yet, but conceivably, it could be in the pond, it could be anywhere, it could be at this other debris side. They've also found some other debris scattered around this area. They say in fact some individuals have been collecting it. Again, we're talking about very, very tiny parts. The biggest part they found at this site is an engine, an engine part, and most of the other pieces are probably no bigger than this particular notebook.
So again, very small pieces. They had hoped to find the black box by now. They're still voicing optimism they will find it."
-CNN (09/13/01)
http://www.angelfire.com/un/mktg889/flight93.html
lightninboy
Well-known member
9/11 SYNTHETIC TERRORISM MADE IN USA. © 2004 by Webster Griffin Tarpley
VIII: SHANKSVILLE
It certainly does appear that the passengers were about to take back the plane. It also appears that Global Hawk, or whatever the system of remote control was which was supposed to take control of United 93, had malfunctioned in the case of this flight. But this would have posed immense problems for the entire official 9/11 story. An aircraft safely landed meant, in all probability, living hijackers who could have been interrogated. And what if there simply were no hijackers on board? The official version would fall to the ground. It was a risk that the terrorist controllers could not afford to run. And then again, there was the aircraft. Would a forensic examination have revealed the presence of Global Hawk, defective or otherwise, or of some other remote control guidance system? Would the FBI have succeeded in destroying this evidence as well? Despite the prolific capabilities of the FBI in destroying evidence, this might have been beyond their powers. These considerations point, along with abundant physical evidence and a large portion of the eyewitness accounts, towards the conclusion that United 93 was shot down to destroy evidence and silence suspects and witnesses forever.
http://www.american-buddha.com/911.syntheticterrormade10.htm
Debris from Flight 93: In the woods behind her home, about six miles from the crash site of United Flight 93, Melanie Hankinson of New Baltimore found several pieces of charred paper that she believes drifted through the air after the crash. (Photo Credit: Steve Mellon/Pittsburgh Post-Gazette/Corbis)
VIII: SHANKSVILLE
It certainly does appear that the passengers were about to take back the plane. It also appears that Global Hawk, or whatever the system of remote control was which was supposed to take control of United 93, had malfunctioned in the case of this flight. But this would have posed immense problems for the entire official 9/11 story. An aircraft safely landed meant, in all probability, living hijackers who could have been interrogated. And what if there simply were no hijackers on board? The official version would fall to the ground. It was a risk that the terrorist controllers could not afford to run. And then again, there was the aircraft. Would a forensic examination have revealed the presence of Global Hawk, defective or otherwise, or of some other remote control guidance system? Would the FBI have succeeded in destroying this evidence as well? Despite the prolific capabilities of the FBI in destroying evidence, this might have been beyond their powers. These considerations point, along with abundant physical evidence and a large portion of the eyewitness accounts, towards the conclusion that United 93 was shot down to destroy evidence and silence suspects and witnesses forever.
http://www.american-buddha.com/911.syntheticterrormade10.htm
Debris from Flight 93: In the woods behind her home, about six miles from the crash site of United Flight 93, Melanie Hankinson of New Baltimore found several pieces of charred paper that she believes drifted through the air after the crash. (Photo Credit: Steve Mellon/Pittsburgh Post-Gazette/Corbis)
lightninboy
Well-known member
Second Flight 93 Debris Field Suppressed by FBI, Major Media
By Lisa Guliani
CNN "reporter" Brian Cabell has said about Shanksville,
"I didn't see any wreckage. . . . I wasn't able to get real
close to the crater. None of the media were able to go
right up to it. We were being spoon-fed information by
the feds. . . . The press was kept at a good distance from
the crater by federal and local authorities. They were calling
the shots." Even though he sensed something was
wrong, Cabell walked away from the story.
Seven years ago, CNN news correspondent
Brian Cabell reported a breaking story from
the crash scene of Flight 93 in Shanksville,
Pennsylvania on the morning of Sept. 11,
2001. During a live, televised exchange with
CNN anchor Daryn Kagan, Cabell stated that the FBI
and Pennsylvania State Police had confirmed the discovery
of a second debris field in New Baltimore, Pa.—an
area approximately eight miles from the Shanksville
crater. According to his report, this second location had
been cordoned off by authorities, who subsequently confirmed
that debris discovered there originated from the
purported crash of Flight 93. Cabell commented during
this live feed that the information didn't make sense and
led him to a number of questions. Listeners were given
the impression that more information would be forthcoming.
But that's not what happened.
During a telephone conversation with this reporter on
August 4, 2008, Cabell attempted to clarify the situation.
"Initially, we thought it was a much bigger story, but the
feds soon explained it away. We thought it was some kind
of explosion or crash because of the debris. But the authorities
informed us that this was all just part of the
Flight 93 crash scene. We weren't allowed in the New
Baltimore location. Yes, this looked a little strange."
While reporting this story, the puzzled reporter questioned
how debris from Flight 93 could find its way to
such a distant location, adding that a news crew was on
its way to the cordoned-off area to obtain photographs.
Curiously, the above news item then disappeared off
mainstream media radar. No follow-up was ever done
and no New Baltimore 9-11 photos emerged. Federal
authorities took complete control of the investigation and
themedia. According to Cabell, authorities subsequently
told the press that the New Baltimore debris was part of
the same event that happened at Shanksville—and then
shooed them away.
New Baltimore is eight miles away from Shanksville.
Given the fact that on 9-11 the wind was blowing at a
mere 9 mph, I had to ask, "How could debris from an
event that happened in Shanksville end up so far away
when only a slight breeze was blowing? What was found
at New Baltimore?" Cabell fails to answer these questions.
He does say, "I didn't see any wreckage at Shanksville.
I wasn't able to get real close to the crater. None
of the media were able to go right up to it. We were
being spoon-fed information by the feds. I think they
were FBI. The press was kept at a good distance from
the crater by federal and local authorities. They were
calling the shots."
Cabell recalls his initial reaction upon arrival at the
Flight 93 crash site in Shanksville: "Hey, what happened
here? Was there an explosion? This looks like something
else, I recall the feds took us on a little tour of the crash
site, but I didn't see what I thought I'd see. I had assumed
there would be obvious wreckage, but there wasn't.
There wasn't much of anything to see." He added:
"There were reports coming in to the press from all over
the place, people seeing one thing or another. But I had
to stop covering the story because the feds waved us off.
They didn't want us there."
Cabell never pursued the story further. Federal authorities
controlling the Flight 93 investigation proclaimed
there was no news, so Cabell and his crew
simply left. Despite the fact that the CNN reporter was
clearly curious and had many questions, he immediately
backed off as directed.
Common sense asks that even if the federal version
were true and the New Baltimore debris really was part
of the Flight 93 crash, why didn't anyone in the establishment
press corps possess a shred of journalistic curiosity
as to what had been recovered, then report those
findings to the public? This is supposed to be the role of
our press. It's chilling to consider that major news
networks allow the U.S. government to determine what is—
or isn't—news. Yet, this is precisely what happened with
the New Baltimore story, by Cabell's own admission.
The truth of the purported crash of UA Flight 93 was
buried by the government with cooperation of mainstream
media in 2001. This aspect of 9-11 has also been
largely ignored by most of the independent media on the
patriot side of the street, but let's be very clear on one
point. Flight 93 has always been the smoking gun of 9-
11. Cabell's report is significant because it has led us
much closer to the truth than our government wants us to
be. With one single scoop, Brian Cabell wandered into
9-11 no-man's land and—whether realizing it or not—
handed us the key to what really happened in Pennsylvania
on Sept. 11, 2001.
http://www.psicounsel.com/Israel911.pdf
By Lisa Guliani
CNN "reporter" Brian Cabell has said about Shanksville,
"I didn't see any wreckage. . . . I wasn't able to get real
close to the crater. None of the media were able to go
right up to it. We were being spoon-fed information by
the feds. . . . The press was kept at a good distance from
the crater by federal and local authorities. They were calling
the shots." Even though he sensed something was
wrong, Cabell walked away from the story.
Seven years ago, CNN news correspondent
Brian Cabell reported a breaking story from
the crash scene of Flight 93 in Shanksville,
Pennsylvania on the morning of Sept. 11,
2001. During a live, televised exchange with
CNN anchor Daryn Kagan, Cabell stated that the FBI
and Pennsylvania State Police had confirmed the discovery
of a second debris field in New Baltimore, Pa.—an
area approximately eight miles from the Shanksville
crater. According to his report, this second location had
been cordoned off by authorities, who subsequently confirmed
that debris discovered there originated from the
purported crash of Flight 93. Cabell commented during
this live feed that the information didn't make sense and
led him to a number of questions. Listeners were given
the impression that more information would be forthcoming.
But that's not what happened.
During a telephone conversation with this reporter on
August 4, 2008, Cabell attempted to clarify the situation.
"Initially, we thought it was a much bigger story, but the
feds soon explained it away. We thought it was some kind
of explosion or crash because of the debris. But the authorities
informed us that this was all just part of the
Flight 93 crash scene. We weren't allowed in the New
Baltimore location. Yes, this looked a little strange."
While reporting this story, the puzzled reporter questioned
how debris from Flight 93 could find its way to
such a distant location, adding that a news crew was on
its way to the cordoned-off area to obtain photographs.
Curiously, the above news item then disappeared off
mainstream media radar. No follow-up was ever done
and no New Baltimore 9-11 photos emerged. Federal
authorities took complete control of the investigation and
themedia. According to Cabell, authorities subsequently
told the press that the New Baltimore debris was part of
the same event that happened at Shanksville—and then
shooed them away.
New Baltimore is eight miles away from Shanksville.
Given the fact that on 9-11 the wind was blowing at a
mere 9 mph, I had to ask, "How could debris from an
event that happened in Shanksville end up so far away
when only a slight breeze was blowing? What was found
at New Baltimore?" Cabell fails to answer these questions.
He does say, "I didn't see any wreckage at Shanksville.
I wasn't able to get real close to the crater. None
of the media were able to go right up to it. We were
being spoon-fed information by the feds. I think they
were FBI. The press was kept at a good distance from
the crater by federal and local authorities. They were
calling the shots."
Cabell recalls his initial reaction upon arrival at the
Flight 93 crash site in Shanksville: "Hey, what happened
here? Was there an explosion? This looks like something
else, I recall the feds took us on a little tour of the crash
site, but I didn't see what I thought I'd see. I had assumed
there would be obvious wreckage, but there wasn't.
There wasn't much of anything to see." He added:
"There were reports coming in to the press from all over
the place, people seeing one thing or another. But I had
to stop covering the story because the feds waved us off.
They didn't want us there."
Cabell never pursued the story further. Federal authorities
controlling the Flight 93 investigation proclaimed
there was no news, so Cabell and his crew
simply left. Despite the fact that the CNN reporter was
clearly curious and had many questions, he immediately
backed off as directed.
Common sense asks that even if the federal version
were true and the New Baltimore debris really was part
of the Flight 93 crash, why didn't anyone in the establishment
press corps possess a shred of journalistic curiosity
as to what had been recovered, then report those
findings to the public? This is supposed to be the role of
our press. It's chilling to consider that major news
networks allow the U.S. government to determine what is—
or isn't—news. Yet, this is precisely what happened with
the New Baltimore story, by Cabell's own admission.
The truth of the purported crash of UA Flight 93 was
buried by the government with cooperation of mainstream
media in 2001. This aspect of 9-11 has also been
largely ignored by most of the independent media on the
patriot side of the street, but let's be very clear on one
point. Flight 93 has always been the smoking gun of 9-
11. Cabell's report is significant because it has led us
much closer to the truth than our government wants us to
be. With one single scoop, Brian Cabell wandered into
9-11 no-man's land and—whether realizing it or not—
handed us the key to what really happened in Pennsylvania
on Sept. 11, 2001.
http://www.psicounsel.com/Israel911.pdf
lightninboy
Well-known member
Maps of the three debris fields
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html
The Rollock-Bethlehem connection
Ground "Witness" Lee Purbaugh followed a popular 9/11 researcher pattern:
It was his "2nd day of the job"
Purbaugh, worked at Rollock Inc., a scrap yard next to the crash area.
He also was the only person to "see the last seconds of Flight 93" as it came down on the former strip-mining land at reportedly 10.06am- and he recognised another "white jet".
He wasn't the only one.
Tom Spinelli, who was working at India Lake Marina, a mile and a half away, also "saw the white plane" he said.
What was this mysterious white aircraft?
According to Independent UK, Purbaugh, served three years in the US Navy.
Did someone tell him, what to say?
In another bizarre twist, almost two years later, Rollock was also interested in the takeover of Bethlehem, the very same company, who made the i-beams and girders for the Twin Towers.
In March 2001, PBS Coals, Inc., connected with one of the flight 93-"witnesses" as well, worked on so called 7820 "dragline walking".
As one can see, they used some advanced machinery, which creates some deep furrows on the ground.
On the picture above, you can see their employees, Jay Berkey and Scott Miller watching a yellow power cord and removing tangles as the 7820 walks.
The same yellow cable appears also on the early photos of the Shanksville crash.
Some researchers argue, that one explosion was pre-prepared, others argue, the FBI just used their same equipment.
Let's look more into the history of PBS Coals:
One of their employees, Douglas W. Berkley, was hired in 1972 by Leonard Fry, owner of PBS.
Doug is now working for Mincor but he's also a captain for American Airlines, flying MD80's from the Washington D.C. crew base.
PBS is a subsidiary of Mincor, at one time itself a subsidiary of Burnett & Hallamshire of England.
B & H bought PBS in the late 1980s with help from Kuwaiti investors-thus closing an historic circle: Andrew Mellon, who with his partner Henry Clay Frick controlled large swaths of the adjoining coalfields of Westmoreland and Fayette counties, picked up the oilfields of Kuwait for his Pittsburgh-based Gulf Oil Co. while he was ambassador to England in the early 1930s. When B & H got into financial trouble, Mincorp was bought out by Citigroup.
Too many oil- and aviation coincidences all over again?
Then there is Michael Svonavec, another "witness", secretary-treasurer of the local coal company Svonavec Inc.
Michael, who turned later into a "Jim Svonavec", in an interview with American Free Press (AFP), said, his company worked at the crash site and provided excavation equipment.
He told AFP that the recovery of the engine "at least 1,800 feet into the woods, ..was done solely by FBI agents using his equipment."
Apparently Svonavec owned the area where the mine is, and they leased it to both Rollock Inc. and PBS Coals Inc.
Meanwhile it seems, that the area around the crash, seems to be well "protected" by other interests.
In December 2003, Congressman John Murtha joined PBS Coals and The Conservation Fund to announce the donation and permanent protection of 29 acres "of hallowed ground" at the Flight 93 crash site.
This gift was the third donation of Flight 93 lands, which then totalled 175 acres.
In same December 2003, Pittsburgh-based CONSOL Energy announced that it had donated 140 acres of company-owned land to The Conservation Fund.
CONSOL Energy is a major fuel supplier to the electric power industry in the northeast quadrant of the United States.
In 2002, Tim Lambert, a Harrisburg-area resident, announced the donation of six acres toward the effort.
In November 2004, Archinect reported, that the partners of a Flight 93 Memorial Project collectively are sponsoring a Design Competition: the Families of Flight 93, the Flight 93 Advisory Commission, the Flight 93 Memorial Task Force and the National Park Service.
Before that memorial can be built, however millions of dollars must be raised or donated and thousands of acres of land acquired.
Where exactly the memorial will be built, and why it needs "thousands of acres", is yet unexplained.
http://911review.org/inn.globalfreepress/lost_terror_drills_11a.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html
The Rollock-Bethlehem connection
Ground "Witness" Lee Purbaugh followed a popular 9/11 researcher pattern:
It was his "2nd day of the job"
Purbaugh, worked at Rollock Inc., a scrap yard next to the crash area.
He also was the only person to "see the last seconds of Flight 93" as it came down on the former strip-mining land at reportedly 10.06am- and he recognised another "white jet".
He wasn't the only one.
Tom Spinelli, who was working at India Lake Marina, a mile and a half away, also "saw the white plane" he said.
What was this mysterious white aircraft?
According to Independent UK, Purbaugh, served three years in the US Navy.
Did someone tell him, what to say?
In another bizarre twist, almost two years later, Rollock was also interested in the takeover of Bethlehem, the very same company, who made the i-beams and girders for the Twin Towers.
In March 2001, PBS Coals, Inc., connected with one of the flight 93-"witnesses" as well, worked on so called 7820 "dragline walking".
As one can see, they used some advanced machinery, which creates some deep furrows on the ground.
On the picture above, you can see their employees, Jay Berkey and Scott Miller watching a yellow power cord and removing tangles as the 7820 walks.
The same yellow cable appears also on the early photos of the Shanksville crash.
Some researchers argue, that one explosion was pre-prepared, others argue, the FBI just used their same equipment.
Let's look more into the history of PBS Coals:
One of their employees, Douglas W. Berkley, was hired in 1972 by Leonard Fry, owner of PBS.
Doug is now working for Mincor but he's also a captain for American Airlines, flying MD80's from the Washington D.C. crew base.
PBS is a subsidiary of Mincor, at one time itself a subsidiary of Burnett & Hallamshire of England.
B & H bought PBS in the late 1980s with help from Kuwaiti investors-thus closing an historic circle: Andrew Mellon, who with his partner Henry Clay Frick controlled large swaths of the adjoining coalfields of Westmoreland and Fayette counties, picked up the oilfields of Kuwait for his Pittsburgh-based Gulf Oil Co. while he was ambassador to England in the early 1930s. When B & H got into financial trouble, Mincorp was bought out by Citigroup.
Too many oil- and aviation coincidences all over again?
Then there is Michael Svonavec, another "witness", secretary-treasurer of the local coal company Svonavec Inc.
Michael, who turned later into a "Jim Svonavec", in an interview with American Free Press (AFP), said, his company worked at the crash site and provided excavation equipment.
He told AFP that the recovery of the engine "at least 1,800 feet into the woods, ..was done solely by FBI agents using his equipment."
Apparently Svonavec owned the area where the mine is, and they leased it to both Rollock Inc. and PBS Coals Inc.
Meanwhile it seems, that the area around the crash, seems to be well "protected" by other interests.
In December 2003, Congressman John Murtha joined PBS Coals and The Conservation Fund to announce the donation and permanent protection of 29 acres "of hallowed ground" at the Flight 93 crash site.
This gift was the third donation of Flight 93 lands, which then totalled 175 acres.
In same December 2003, Pittsburgh-based CONSOL Energy announced that it had donated 140 acres of company-owned land to The Conservation Fund.
CONSOL Energy is a major fuel supplier to the electric power industry in the northeast quadrant of the United States.
In 2002, Tim Lambert, a Harrisburg-area resident, announced the donation of six acres toward the effort.
In November 2004, Archinect reported, that the partners of a Flight 93 Memorial Project collectively are sponsoring a Design Competition: the Families of Flight 93, the Flight 93 Advisory Commission, the Flight 93 Memorial Task Force and the National Park Service.
Before that memorial can be built, however millions of dollars must be raised or donated and thousands of acres of land acquired.
Where exactly the memorial will be built, and why it needs "thousands of acres", is yet unexplained.
http://911review.org/inn.globalfreepress/lost_terror_drills_11a.html
lightninboy
Well-known member
Woody Box
Apr-05-09
39.51 North, 78.46 West - these are the last known position coordinates of UAL93 as observed by Cleveland Center.
This point is about ten miles southeast of Indian Lake.
It looks like Cleveland Center confirms Domenick's finds.
yes, about 2 miles northwest of Hyndman, PA
Ok - I should have added
that these coordinates (latitude/longitude) are sexagesimal, not decimal.
So I should have written 39 degree 51' West, 78 degree 46' North instead of 39.51N,78.46W which could be understood as decimal coordinates.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x240179
Woody Box
Apr 25 2009
I'm still in the process of gathering evidence that the radar blip beyond Shanksville which was believed to be Flight 93 by every controller, supervisor, and official, was a real plane and not just an artefact on the Traffic Situation Display.
It's a transcript within the FAA Command Center, between the National Traffic Management Officer, East Position and Doug Davis of the Operations Center.
United 93 switched on the transponder at 10:05 (two minutes after its alleged crash), and the transponder indicated an altitude of 8200 ft. It is heading southeast.
One minute later, at 10:06, radar contact with United 93 is lost, at the position 39,51 north, 78,46 west. This point is about 13 miles southeast of the crash site.
This is the death of the TSD theory. An extrapolated radar blip (without an underlying plane) is hardly capable of switching the transponder on, is it?
There can be no doubt that United 93 did not crash at Shanksville.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17089
Apr-05-09
39.51 North, 78.46 West - these are the last known position coordinates of UAL93 as observed by Cleveland Center.
This point is about ten miles southeast of Indian Lake.
It looks like Cleveland Center confirms Domenick's finds.
yes, about 2 miles northwest of Hyndman, PA
Ok - I should have added
that these coordinates (latitude/longitude) are sexagesimal, not decimal.
So I should have written 39 degree 51' West, 78 degree 46' North instead of 39.51N,78.46W which could be understood as decimal coordinates.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x240179
Woody Box
Apr 25 2009
I'm still in the process of gathering evidence that the radar blip beyond Shanksville which was believed to be Flight 93 by every controller, supervisor, and official, was a real plane and not just an artefact on the Traffic Situation Display.
It's a transcript within the FAA Command Center, between the National Traffic Management Officer, East Position and Doug Davis of the Operations Center.
United 93 switched on the transponder at 10:05 (two minutes after its alleged crash), and the transponder indicated an altitude of 8200 ft. It is heading southeast.
One minute later, at 10:06, radar contact with United 93 is lost, at the position 39,51 north, 78,46 west. This point is about 13 miles southeast of the crash site.
This is the death of the TSD theory. An extrapolated radar blip (without an underlying plane) is hardly capable of switching the transponder on, is it?
There can be no doubt that United 93 did not crash at Shanksville.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17089
lightninboy
Well-known member
20 9/11 Questions Remain Unanswered over 8 Years Later
23-10-2009
1) What was the order that Dick Cheney had given while he knew that Flight 77 was approaching Washington DC?
2) Why was the Flight 93 crash site spread out over 8 miles?
3) Why did witnesses report hearing military jets in the area of the Flight 93 crash?
4) For what reason are Pentagon surveillance tapes showing the impact of Flight 77 still being withheld?
5) Why couldn't Osama bin Laden seem to get his story straight about whether or not he had anything to do with 9/11?
6) What allowed WTC7 to accelerate vertically at the rate of free-fall in a vacuum?
7) What was the Israeli intelligence connection to 9/11 that remains classified?
8 ) How was an explosive fireball supposed to have traveled down about 1000 feet of drywall elevator shafts to cause major explosions in the basement and lobby, and where is evidence to support this rumor?
9) Why did basement levels fill with smoke, and why did underground PATH subway cars also fill with smoke, and why were witnesses confused into thinking explosions were coming from under the towers?
10) By what processes did a mass of concrete, steel, paper, and other debris come together in a single chunk known as the "meteorite"?
11) Why did police say that a van with a plane "diving into New York City and exploding" exploded over their radio transmissions?
12) What is the compound found in WTC dust that exhibits energetic combustion properties?
13) What was the source of the eutectic compound and sulfur in the extreme corrosion analyzed by FEMA?
14) What was the source of the molten metal seen pouring out of WTC2 shortly before it collapsed?
15) On what 'state secrets' grounds was Sibel Edmonds' FBI whistleblower case barred from court by John Ashcroft?
16) Why are there such large discrepancies in plane impact times from different government sources?
17) What was the "global collapse" mechanism of the Twin Towers?
18 ) What was the full nature of the military wargames on 9/11?
19) Why was the White House initially unwilling to authorize a commission to investigate 9/11?
20) Why was the structural documentation of the WTC Towers locked up after 9/11, and why has it still not been released except in bits and pieces by NIST?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread513160/pg1
23-10-2009
1) What was the order that Dick Cheney had given while he knew that Flight 77 was approaching Washington DC?
2) Why was the Flight 93 crash site spread out over 8 miles?
3) Why did witnesses report hearing military jets in the area of the Flight 93 crash?
4) For what reason are Pentagon surveillance tapes showing the impact of Flight 77 still being withheld?
5) Why couldn't Osama bin Laden seem to get his story straight about whether or not he had anything to do with 9/11?
6) What allowed WTC7 to accelerate vertically at the rate of free-fall in a vacuum?
7) What was the Israeli intelligence connection to 9/11 that remains classified?
8 ) How was an explosive fireball supposed to have traveled down about 1000 feet of drywall elevator shafts to cause major explosions in the basement and lobby, and where is evidence to support this rumor?
9) Why did basement levels fill with smoke, and why did underground PATH subway cars also fill with smoke, and why were witnesses confused into thinking explosions were coming from under the towers?
10) By what processes did a mass of concrete, steel, paper, and other debris come together in a single chunk known as the "meteorite"?
11) Why did police say that a van with a plane "diving into New York City and exploding" exploded over their radio transmissions?
12) What is the compound found in WTC dust that exhibits energetic combustion properties?
13) What was the source of the eutectic compound and sulfur in the extreme corrosion analyzed by FEMA?
14) What was the source of the molten metal seen pouring out of WTC2 shortly before it collapsed?
15) On what 'state secrets' grounds was Sibel Edmonds' FBI whistleblower case barred from court by John Ashcroft?
16) Why are there such large discrepancies in plane impact times from different government sources?
17) What was the "global collapse" mechanism of the Twin Towers?
18 ) What was the full nature of the military wargames on 9/11?
19) Why was the White House initially unwilling to authorize a commission to investigate 9/11?
20) Why was the structural documentation of the WTC Towers locked up after 9/11, and why has it still not been released except in bits and pieces by NIST?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread513160/pg1
lightninboy
Well-known member
President Bush has said: "We must speak the truth about terror. Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of Sept 11th."
And to try and fight the internet bloggers on their own territory, the US State Department has launched a website to debunk conspiracy theories - not just about 9/11 but a whole range of urban myths and inaccurate stories circulating on the internet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6354679.stm
President Bush said at the U.N. on Nov. 10, 2001: "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of Sept. 11th, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty."
Well, what if the "malicious lies" are those told in the report itself? Why, for instance, was so much evidence removed from the scenes of the greatest crime of the century by federal officials before it could be inspected?
The eyewitness accounts by experts of molten steel, the aftermath of explosives in the basements of the WTC buildings was left out of the report. The alleged hijackers were incompetent pilots and were not named on flight passenger lists. And what about the EPA's lies about the safety of the air quality in lower Manhattan that allowed first responders to work without proper breathing equipment which has resulted in illnesses and deaths?
Americans have the right to know the TRUTH about the events of that day which have made not just our country less safe, but left the entire world in peril. The insidious, ugly facts that fester and progressively seep out of the official conspiracy theory will remain a cancer in our country, and until the truth is incised out of the cover-up imposed by this corporate-owned regime, America can never again regain respect in the world.
http://911blogger.com/node/14142
Killtown
December 15, 2006
Since the crash scene is obviously a fake, all these scraps of metal had to be planted, but also the perps had to get all these metal scraps from somewhere to plant. Now of course, any of the metal scraps that actually came from planes, the government would have access to past plane wreckage that are stored at their government facilities.
However, what if a bunch of the metal scraps are just plain old metal scraps? Where could the perps have gotten all the metal scraps they planted then collected from the scene?
Well from a scrap yard of course, conveniently right next door:
Rollock Inc - 156 Rollock Rd, Stoystown, PA, about .4 miles away
Rollock Inc., a scrap metal business owned and managed by the father-and-son team of Tony and Chris Kordell of Bedford County.
The property they purchased three years ago abuts the crash site, which lies just several yards beyond the perimeter of the Kordells' land." – Pittsburgh Live (09/11/02)
A couple of curious notes about this scrap yard next door. Out of the dozens of witnesses who reported seeing a plane in the area, only one person, Lee Purbaugh, reportedly saw the aircraft actual hit the ground and he was working of course at Rollock on, get this, only his second day on the job! And I'm sure his ex-Navy background doesn't make him sound any more suspicious.
Purbaugh also conflicts with the other witnesses by not reporting that this alleged plane had flipped over before crashing like a handful of witnesses claimed and also conflicts with them saying they saw it going down at a near 90 deg angle. Purbaugh said the plane he witnessed flew only 40-50ft over his head and coming in at "45 degrees" which would have been impossible even if the plane crashed at a 40 deg angle as Flight 93's FDR supposedly indicates because a 757 is 155 ft long and was reported to be traveling at whopping 580 mph, yet was able to supposedly dive down and burrow underground without displacing much dirt only about 400 yards away from him. Even if the plane had come in at 45 degrees but straightened some before flying 40-50 ft over his head, it would have been impossible for the 757 to have crashed even at a 40 deg angle in the split second it would have crashed after flying over that low over his head at its reported speed.
One thing about his testimony that doesn't conflict with the other witnesses is that he too saw the suspicious unmarked small white plane in the area that was seen by at least nine others after the crash . . . and before!
Another note of curiosity about Rollock, the co-owner, Chris Kordell, claims to have been the first one to reach the crash scene, but interestingly was never reported there by the press even though the press did report that Kordell's employee Lee Purbaugh was there.
Another employee from Rollock, Mike Shepley, was working at the site and also claimed to see the plane zip by, but said it was going too fast to make out what it was. He said he went to the scene but "there was nothing there", so he started direction traffic instead. He also says something very interesting in that the crash spot had "just been backfilled." The Pittsburg Tribune-Review reported that the area had been abandoned in 1996, so I decided to call the owner of the crater area, Svonavec Inc, and happened to get to talk to Mike Svonavec. I had asked him when was the last time the area was touched and he confirmed with the Tribune-Review that the area hasn't been touched since around 1996. Svonavec also said something interesting in that the term "soft dirt" given to the area there was a "relative" term.
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/12/metal-scraps-at-shanksville-and-more.html
And to try and fight the internet bloggers on their own territory, the US State Department has launched a website to debunk conspiracy theories - not just about 9/11 but a whole range of urban myths and inaccurate stories circulating on the internet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6354679.stm
President Bush said at the U.N. on Nov. 10, 2001: "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of Sept. 11th, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty."
Well, what if the "malicious lies" are those told in the report itself? Why, for instance, was so much evidence removed from the scenes of the greatest crime of the century by federal officials before it could be inspected?
The eyewitness accounts by experts of molten steel, the aftermath of explosives in the basements of the WTC buildings was left out of the report. The alleged hijackers were incompetent pilots and were not named on flight passenger lists. And what about the EPA's lies about the safety of the air quality in lower Manhattan that allowed first responders to work without proper breathing equipment which has resulted in illnesses and deaths?
Americans have the right to know the TRUTH about the events of that day which have made not just our country less safe, but left the entire world in peril. The insidious, ugly facts that fester and progressively seep out of the official conspiracy theory will remain a cancer in our country, and until the truth is incised out of the cover-up imposed by this corporate-owned regime, America can never again regain respect in the world.
http://911blogger.com/node/14142
Killtown
December 15, 2006
Since the crash scene is obviously a fake, all these scraps of metal had to be planted, but also the perps had to get all these metal scraps from somewhere to plant. Now of course, any of the metal scraps that actually came from planes, the government would have access to past plane wreckage that are stored at their government facilities.
However, what if a bunch of the metal scraps are just plain old metal scraps? Where could the perps have gotten all the metal scraps they planted then collected from the scene?
Well from a scrap yard of course, conveniently right next door:
Rollock Inc - 156 Rollock Rd, Stoystown, PA, about .4 miles away
Rollock Inc., a scrap metal business owned and managed by the father-and-son team of Tony and Chris Kordell of Bedford County.
The property they purchased three years ago abuts the crash site, which lies just several yards beyond the perimeter of the Kordells' land." – Pittsburgh Live (09/11/02)
A couple of curious notes about this scrap yard next door. Out of the dozens of witnesses who reported seeing a plane in the area, only one person, Lee Purbaugh, reportedly saw the aircraft actual hit the ground and he was working of course at Rollock on, get this, only his second day on the job! And I'm sure his ex-Navy background doesn't make him sound any more suspicious.
Purbaugh also conflicts with the other witnesses by not reporting that this alleged plane had flipped over before crashing like a handful of witnesses claimed and also conflicts with them saying they saw it going down at a near 90 deg angle. Purbaugh said the plane he witnessed flew only 40-50ft over his head and coming in at "45 degrees" which would have been impossible even if the plane crashed at a 40 deg angle as Flight 93's FDR supposedly indicates because a 757 is 155 ft long and was reported to be traveling at whopping 580 mph, yet was able to supposedly dive down and burrow underground without displacing much dirt only about 400 yards away from him. Even if the plane had come in at 45 degrees but straightened some before flying 40-50 ft over his head, it would have been impossible for the 757 to have crashed even at a 40 deg angle in the split second it would have crashed after flying over that low over his head at its reported speed.
One thing about his testimony that doesn't conflict with the other witnesses is that he too saw the suspicious unmarked small white plane in the area that was seen by at least nine others after the crash . . . and before!
Another note of curiosity about Rollock, the co-owner, Chris Kordell, claims to have been the first one to reach the crash scene, but interestingly was never reported there by the press even though the press did report that Kordell's employee Lee Purbaugh was there.
Another employee from Rollock, Mike Shepley, was working at the site and also claimed to see the plane zip by, but said it was going too fast to make out what it was. He said he went to the scene but "there was nothing there", so he started direction traffic instead. He also says something very interesting in that the crash spot had "just been backfilled." The Pittsburg Tribune-Review reported that the area had been abandoned in 1996, so I decided to call the owner of the crater area, Svonavec Inc, and happened to get to talk to Mike Svonavec. I had asked him when was the last time the area was touched and he confirmed with the Tribune-Review that the area hasn't been touched since around 1996. Svonavec also said something interesting in that the term "soft dirt" given to the area there was a "relative" term.
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/12/metal-scraps-at-shanksville-and-more.html
lightninboy
Well-known member
Any coincidence that a Raytheon and Northrop defense contractor is in the same county where Flight 93 crashed, or that Shanksville is a military flight corridor?
Kuchera Defense Systems, 345 Hillside Drive, Windber, PA 15963
(Approx. 13 miles from crash site (Google Earth). Driving distance from Windber, PA to Shanksville, PA = 22.1 miles.)
Our Customers:
NAVY SURFACE WARFARE CENTER
NORTHROP GRUMMAN CORPORATION
RAYTHEON
McDONNELL DOUGLAS
► Raytheon Awarding $10 Million in Contracts to Kuchera
"JOHNSTOWN, June 1, 2001 — Raytheon Company is awarding Kuchera Defense Systems of Windber five contracts totaling $10 million to manufacture electronic circuit cards, cables/harness assemblies, and other components for various radar, missile and sensor programs, according to an announcement made here today by U.S. Rep. John Murtha and officials of both companies." - house.gov/murtha (06/01/01)
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/claim.html
On the JFK Assassination, Military Industrial Complex, and 9/11
2010 May 2
by Steve Beckow
The Zapruder video clearly shows the Secret Service agent driving JFK's car (I believe his name was William Greer) turn in his seat and deliver the coup de grace to the President, with a special pistol designed by the CIA to deliver a shot of poison, forcing JFK to accelerate backwards in his seat. Jacqueline Kennedy saw the shot, which is why she tried to exit the car to the back. Notice that the Secret Service agents usually assigned to the President's car stood down that day.
Both Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had warned the American public about the military-industrial complex or "secret government," which was taking over the American government.
Since the 1970s, the MIC has had a plan to continue to keep military spending high by creating a series of threats: first the Russians, then terrorists, rogue nations, asteroids, and finally extraterrestrials.
It was the MIC that planned the 9/11 false-flag operation to provide a justification for war in Afghanistan and Iraq. It planned to extend that war to Iran but in the end the military rebelled against such a move.
The MIC tried to execute a number of second 9/11s and was thwarted.
The MIC not only assassinated JFK, but many other people who stood in their path.
9/11 had been in the planning stages as far back as the 1970s. It was an operation in which NORAD, the Navy, the CIA, Mossad, the State Department, a consortium of banks, and others participated. It was planned as a "new Pearl Harbor," to provide a pretext for war. Not 3,000 citizens died on that day, but closer to tens and tens of thousands.
Osama bin Laden was lying in a Pakistani hospital on Sept. 11, 2001, being operated on for kidney problems. He died long ago from that same condition. He was a CIA asset and had nothing to do with 9/11 apart from his CIA-designated role. Many of the so-called Arab hijackers were found alive after 9/11 and the story suppressed. Arab hijackers did not cause 9/11 and we owe the Muslim world an apology for suggesting that they are the source of "terrorism," when it is the MIC which is the source.
The World Trade Center – including Building 7, which was brought down at 5:30 p.m. on Sept. 11 and was never hit by an airplane – were destroyed by a combination of thermite explosives hidden within the building and scalar-wave weapons which reduced the buildings to dust by the time they hit the ground.
http://stevebeckow.com/2010/05/on-the-jfk-assassination-military-industrial-complex-and-911/
9/11 And The North American Military-Industrial Complex:
The Descent Into Dictatorship
A Citizen's Report
By:
Andrew Marshall
George W. Bush said himself in a speech to the United Nations regarding the
events of 9/11, "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the eleventh. Malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves. Away from the guilty." Yes, I agree. Let's all of us, never tolerate OUTRAGEOUS conspiracy theories. Why not start with the most outrageous conspiracy story. The one put forth by the government concerning 9/11. This conspiracy theory, as a conspiracy is defined as two or more people planning to commit a crime, claims that 19 hijackers from the Middle East, under the command and control of Osama bin Laden, a dialysis ridden Saudi Arabian living in a cave using a laptop in Afghanistan were able to outwit and outmaneuver the US's $40 billion dollar per year defense budget and hijack four planes and crash them into two towers in a very difficult, if not impossible flight maneuver, which resulted in the collapse of three World Trade Center buildings, defying the laws of physics and reason, as well as into the Pentagon, the most protected buildings in the world, and a field in Pennsylvania. When in comparison to the questions raised and evidence reviewed, this is not even a possibility. This is an insult to any free-thinking person. Let us not tolerate it. Bush said it best, "Malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves. Away from the guilty." That is what those lies did, as they shifted the blame away from the guilty, the real terrorists holding office as President, Vice-President and so-on and instead tried to make us all believe that a few people from a distant underdeveloped country in a war ravaged region thought it would be a good idea to attack the heart of the most powerful country in the world. Just because these people don't live in the West does not make them unintelligent, to think that they could attack the foundations of the mightiest force in the world and not feel any repercussions is absurd. Why would these people, who have been through war after war want to openly invite another one? Why, when what they hate most about America is its interference into their political and social affairs, would they want to give an excuse for America to destroy and take control of their political and social affairs and to invade and control their countries? Does this make any sense at all? No. It is a lie; they are hiding the truth because they have so much to gain from doing so. They have everything to gain, and we have everything to lose. The more they gain, the more we lose. If we stay asleep too long, we won't ever be able to wake up. The Muslim world to us, is what the Jews were to the Germans in the 1930's; a scapegoat, a patsy, a mysterious and seemingly invisible enemy. People often ask how the Germans were able to fall for Hitler's propaganda machine and believe that the Jews were the problem and that they didn't know what was really going on. Well, before asking that question, look at yourself. Look at our society. We all believe that it is the Muslim faith that is responsible for attacking our way of life, our freedom, and we thusly refuse to see anything else. We are the Germans in the 1930's, except now it isn't just one country under the influence, it's the Western World, blinded by fear and the unknown that we accept what is instantly given to us. The only difference is that Hitler called it propaganda; we call it the mainstream media.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/9_11_military_industrial_complex.pdf
Kuchera Defense Systems, 345 Hillside Drive, Windber, PA 15963
(Approx. 13 miles from crash site (Google Earth). Driving distance from Windber, PA to Shanksville, PA = 22.1 miles.)
Our Customers:
NAVY SURFACE WARFARE CENTER
NORTHROP GRUMMAN CORPORATION
RAYTHEON
McDONNELL DOUGLAS
► Raytheon Awarding $10 Million in Contracts to Kuchera
"JOHNSTOWN, June 1, 2001 — Raytheon Company is awarding Kuchera Defense Systems of Windber five contracts totaling $10 million to manufacture electronic circuit cards, cables/harness assemblies, and other components for various radar, missile and sensor programs, according to an announcement made here today by U.S. Rep. John Murtha and officials of both companies." - house.gov/murtha (06/01/01)
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/claim.html
On the JFK Assassination, Military Industrial Complex, and 9/11
2010 May 2
by Steve Beckow
The Zapruder video clearly shows the Secret Service agent driving JFK's car (I believe his name was William Greer) turn in his seat and deliver the coup de grace to the President, with a special pistol designed by the CIA to deliver a shot of poison, forcing JFK to accelerate backwards in his seat. Jacqueline Kennedy saw the shot, which is why she tried to exit the car to the back. Notice that the Secret Service agents usually assigned to the President's car stood down that day.
Both Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had warned the American public about the military-industrial complex or "secret government," which was taking over the American government.
Since the 1970s, the MIC has had a plan to continue to keep military spending high by creating a series of threats: first the Russians, then terrorists, rogue nations, asteroids, and finally extraterrestrials.
It was the MIC that planned the 9/11 false-flag operation to provide a justification for war in Afghanistan and Iraq. It planned to extend that war to Iran but in the end the military rebelled against such a move.
The MIC tried to execute a number of second 9/11s and was thwarted.
The MIC not only assassinated JFK, but many other people who stood in their path.
9/11 had been in the planning stages as far back as the 1970s. It was an operation in which NORAD, the Navy, the CIA, Mossad, the State Department, a consortium of banks, and others participated. It was planned as a "new Pearl Harbor," to provide a pretext for war. Not 3,000 citizens died on that day, but closer to tens and tens of thousands.
Osama bin Laden was lying in a Pakistani hospital on Sept. 11, 2001, being operated on for kidney problems. He died long ago from that same condition. He was a CIA asset and had nothing to do with 9/11 apart from his CIA-designated role. Many of the so-called Arab hijackers were found alive after 9/11 and the story suppressed. Arab hijackers did not cause 9/11 and we owe the Muslim world an apology for suggesting that they are the source of "terrorism," when it is the MIC which is the source.
The World Trade Center – including Building 7, which was brought down at 5:30 p.m. on Sept. 11 and was never hit by an airplane – were destroyed by a combination of thermite explosives hidden within the building and scalar-wave weapons which reduced the buildings to dust by the time they hit the ground.
http://stevebeckow.com/2010/05/on-the-jfk-assassination-military-industrial-complex-and-911/
9/11 And The North American Military-Industrial Complex:
The Descent Into Dictatorship
A Citizen's Report
By:
Andrew Marshall
George W. Bush said himself in a speech to the United Nations regarding the
events of 9/11, "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the eleventh. Malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves. Away from the guilty." Yes, I agree. Let's all of us, never tolerate OUTRAGEOUS conspiracy theories. Why not start with the most outrageous conspiracy story. The one put forth by the government concerning 9/11. This conspiracy theory, as a conspiracy is defined as two or more people planning to commit a crime, claims that 19 hijackers from the Middle East, under the command and control of Osama bin Laden, a dialysis ridden Saudi Arabian living in a cave using a laptop in Afghanistan were able to outwit and outmaneuver the US's $40 billion dollar per year defense budget and hijack four planes and crash them into two towers in a very difficult, if not impossible flight maneuver, which resulted in the collapse of three World Trade Center buildings, defying the laws of physics and reason, as well as into the Pentagon, the most protected buildings in the world, and a field in Pennsylvania. When in comparison to the questions raised and evidence reviewed, this is not even a possibility. This is an insult to any free-thinking person. Let us not tolerate it. Bush said it best, "Malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists themselves. Away from the guilty." That is what those lies did, as they shifted the blame away from the guilty, the real terrorists holding office as President, Vice-President and so-on and instead tried to make us all believe that a few people from a distant underdeveloped country in a war ravaged region thought it would be a good idea to attack the heart of the most powerful country in the world. Just because these people don't live in the West does not make them unintelligent, to think that they could attack the foundations of the mightiest force in the world and not feel any repercussions is absurd. Why would these people, who have been through war after war want to openly invite another one? Why, when what they hate most about America is its interference into their political and social affairs, would they want to give an excuse for America to destroy and take control of their political and social affairs and to invade and control their countries? Does this make any sense at all? No. It is a lie; they are hiding the truth because they have so much to gain from doing so. They have everything to gain, and we have everything to lose. The more they gain, the more we lose. If we stay asleep too long, we won't ever be able to wake up. The Muslim world to us, is what the Jews were to the Germans in the 1930's; a scapegoat, a patsy, a mysterious and seemingly invisible enemy. People often ask how the Germans were able to fall for Hitler's propaganda machine and believe that the Jews were the problem and that they didn't know what was really going on. Well, before asking that question, look at yourself. Look at our society. We all believe that it is the Muslim faith that is responsible for attacking our way of life, our freedom, and we thusly refuse to see anything else. We are the Germans in the 1930's, except now it isn't just one country under the influence, it's the Western World, blinded by fear and the unknown that we accept what is instantly given to us. The only difference is that Hitler called it propaganda; we call it the mainstream media.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/9_11_military_industrial_complex.pdf
lightninboy
Well-known member
Killtown
21 Feb 2011
Nothing was shot down.
If a plane was shot in the air before the stripmine field, there would have been debris leading up to the point of impact, not that other way around as would have to be to fit the evidence at Shanksville, since falling debris landed way past the field.
If you are suggesting Flight 93 was shot down and crashed way past the field around New Baltimore, then that means the perps pre-planned to stage that empty field where the crater is, which doesn't make any sense IMO. I don't see how the perps could shot down a 757 and control where it crashes, then hide the actual crash spot with all that smoke that's going to be rising for people from miles and miles around to see.
I wonder if the shoot down rumors were purposely started to as disinformation to cover for no plane crashing. After all, the most popular shoot down theory websites was one of the first 9/11 conspiracy sites on the web and they want you to think, regardless if there was a shoot down, that a plane crashed there. You can tell this by their URL and their opening statement:
flight93crash.com
"How Did United Flight 93 Crash?"
http://letsrollforums.com/national-guardshot-down-fl-t24584.html
... and kiss the official UA 93 theory good-bye!
John Doe II
Jan-08-05
I. Something from the northwest:
Conclusion: All eyewitnesses who saw the plane (and who I was able to locate) are northwest and west of the crash site. They all clearly agree in their observation that a descending airplane is coming in from northwest. This also corresponds to the official flight path presented by the Commission Report.
Contradiction: The Commission Report clearly states that UA 93 nosedived with 580 mph into the ground.
The final decision to crash the plane was taken by the hijackers at 10:02:23. The plane "headed down" "The control wheel was turned hard to the right" and it crashed with 580 mph at 10:03:11 (CR, 14, 30).
So we the Commission draws the image of a plane that during 48 seconds flys headdown at maximum speed into the ground.
But there is not a single eyewitnesses who actually sees this kind of nosediving. On the contrary many eyewitnesses observe a behaviour of the airplane that is very bizarre.
II. Something from the east:
While all the eyewitnesses of the last minutes of UA 93 that we can manage to locate have been in the west or northwest of the crash site all witnesses that have been in the east of the crash site (especially at Indian Lake) also see an airplane but this airplane is clearly not a commercial airplane.
None of the eyewitnesses who saw the descending airplane from northwest saw the white jet coming from the east. None of the eyewitnesses who saw the white jet from the east saw the descending airplane from northwest.
III. Raining Debris:
Indeed all theses information about raining debris hints at a mid-air explosion. The only possible contradiction is that UA 93 was supposed to be the descending airplane from northwest and not a plane that crossed Indian Lake from the east before crashing!
Which airplane "lost" debris while overflying Indian Lake: The white jet or another (second) commercial airplane?
If it was the white jet: How could it have "lost" debris?
If it was another airplane: Which airplane was it and where did it go? Why wasn't it recognized?
Special Thanks: to Team 8+ !
And to Zaphod 36 and Zeitmaschine who always insisted that the plane came from the east! They have done an extraordinary job!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x28985
Part II: ... and kiss the official UA 93 theory good-bye!
John Doe II
Jan-25-05
There seems only one possible explanation to solve the problem we face with UA 93 descending from the west and the crater that couldn't have been created by a plane coming from the west. But this solution contradicts the official flight path:
The U-turn: Maybe the plane from the west crossed the trees and passed the crash site and continued to fly east. Then it did a 180° turn and came back to the crash site from the east.
This assumption has several big problems:
- The observation of several eyewitnesses. They saw the plane crossing the trees and then "within seconds" it crashed or their description clearly implies that the crash happened right after the plane vanishing from view behind the trees. But a Boeing that would have made a complete 180°-turn as the explanation suggests would clearly have needed quite a bit of time (one minute?). It's certainly rather save to believe that all theses eyewitnesses wouldn't have mistaken something like a minute with "a second".
- The absence of eyewitnesses east of the crash site. Not a single eyewitness saw the plane continuing its flight east after the crash site. In order to manage a complete 180° turn the Boeing certainly needed quite a while. And certainly a plane flying at an altitude of a few hundred feet would have stood out! In the west of the crash site we can easily track the flight path of UA 93 due to the accounts of many eyewitnesses but in the east we completely lose it!?
Only one eyewitness could maybe be presented to support the U-turn-theory.
- This theory would still not be able to explain the raining debris. If anybody wants to propose a shoot down as a logical explanation then the U-turn-theory gets even stranger. Not only would there have been a curious lack of eyewitnesses seeing the plane turning around 180° (having to fly all in all at least 17 miles after having crossed the crash site) but also nobody saw neither a second plane (even people seeing the white plane never mention having seen UA 93!) nor the shoot down.
But if a shoot down is unlikely then how can we account for the raining debris?
(In part I of "… and kiss the official UA 93 theory good-bye" it has been shown that the eyewitnesses and also the wind direction that could be seen on the video completely contradict the official explanation that the wind blew the debris on Indian Lake and till New Baltimore (eight miles away)).
But if the U-turn-theory is of no help explaining the crater how else can it be explained?
Can we assume another plane coming from the east crashing into the ground? Hardly. We would have the simple problem that the "wrong" plane is in the crater and we would need to explain how UA 93 could have completely vanished! And for achieving the 90° hit into the ground the plane would have needed a certain altitude and most likely would have been seen from the eyewitnesses from the west.
So apparently there simply is no explanation possible and I find it rather hard to believe that all eyewitnesses didn't say the truth (this is too much of a conspiracy for me and contrary to some officials the eyewitnesses don't have a motive).
Therefore we can conclude:
Not only can we state that there was a strange encounter between the plane from the west and the white jet from the east at the moment of the crash but whatever has created the crater is not the same airplane that all the eyewitnesses have seen descending from the west. The crater can't have been created by UA 93. And most likely no plane at all can have created this crater.
This surprising conclusion doesn't contradict any eyewitness account of the crater btw. Not a single eyewitness was sure that there was a plane in the crater.
The only question remaining is:
If the plane from the west that officially is considered to have been UA 93 didn't create the crater where did it go and what did create this crater instead?
In case there has been an explosion aboard UA 93 what many CTlers believe you have to see the following problem: Officially the UA 93 comes from the west seen by many eyewitnesses. There can't have been an explosion aboard this plane. No debris found on the flight path. On the contrary debris has been found in the east, southeast till New Baltimore (8 miles away). But UA 93 never flew over New Baltimore nor Indian Lake. So there is a problem. Sure an explosion could be responsible for the raining debris but the plane wouldn't be the plane from the west that is considered as UA 93.
Problem is the explosion makes a lot of a difference. An explosion (see raining debris) could only have happened east of the crash site (over Indian Lake) but officially the plane never crossed Indian Lake. Moreover I would wonder then what the hell is the plane all the eyewitnesses do see west of the crash site following the official flight path of UA 93?? The same is evidence that against a simplist shoot down scenario.
And the white jet was present at the moment of the crash. Clearly the FBI does lie here right from the start. and concerning the debris the NTSB is lying right from the start. That makes a lot of difference. The offically acknowledged plane descending from the west cannnot have caused the crater. Or we have to consider that ALL eyewitnesses are telling lies ...
The only thing I can figure is that either:
a) one "flight 93" plane came from the east, was shot by an interceptor, spread debris and made the crater, while another "flight 93" plane overflew the witnesses acting crazy but then kept on flying and landed somewhere else. This could account for the physical evidence.
b) after over-flying the witnesses, flight 93 kept flying and didn't crash. For some reason they staged a plane crash in the area-- spread debris, a plane engine and blew up the ground to make a crater. The white plane may have something to do with this. Why they would do this, I can't figure, but it makes more sense than the official story in terms of accounting for the physical evidence.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x30634
21 Feb 2011
Nothing was shot down.
If a plane was shot in the air before the stripmine field, there would have been debris leading up to the point of impact, not that other way around as would have to be to fit the evidence at Shanksville, since falling debris landed way past the field.
If you are suggesting Flight 93 was shot down and crashed way past the field around New Baltimore, then that means the perps pre-planned to stage that empty field where the crater is, which doesn't make any sense IMO. I don't see how the perps could shot down a 757 and control where it crashes, then hide the actual crash spot with all that smoke that's going to be rising for people from miles and miles around to see.
I wonder if the shoot down rumors were purposely started to as disinformation to cover for no plane crashing. After all, the most popular shoot down theory websites was one of the first 9/11 conspiracy sites on the web and they want you to think, regardless if there was a shoot down, that a plane crashed there. You can tell this by their URL and their opening statement:
flight93crash.com
"How Did United Flight 93 Crash?"
http://letsrollforums.com/national-guardshot-down-fl-t24584.html
... and kiss the official UA 93 theory good-bye!
John Doe II
Jan-08-05
I. Something from the northwest:
Conclusion: All eyewitnesses who saw the plane (and who I was able to locate) are northwest and west of the crash site. They all clearly agree in their observation that a descending airplane is coming in from northwest. This also corresponds to the official flight path presented by the Commission Report.
Contradiction: The Commission Report clearly states that UA 93 nosedived with 580 mph into the ground.
The final decision to crash the plane was taken by the hijackers at 10:02:23. The plane "headed down" "The control wheel was turned hard to the right" and it crashed with 580 mph at 10:03:11 (CR, 14, 30).
So we the Commission draws the image of a plane that during 48 seconds flys headdown at maximum speed into the ground.
But there is not a single eyewitnesses who actually sees this kind of nosediving. On the contrary many eyewitnesses observe a behaviour of the airplane that is very bizarre.
II. Something from the east:
While all the eyewitnesses of the last minutes of UA 93 that we can manage to locate have been in the west or northwest of the crash site all witnesses that have been in the east of the crash site (especially at Indian Lake) also see an airplane but this airplane is clearly not a commercial airplane.
None of the eyewitnesses who saw the descending airplane from northwest saw the white jet coming from the east. None of the eyewitnesses who saw the white jet from the east saw the descending airplane from northwest.
III. Raining Debris:
Indeed all theses information about raining debris hints at a mid-air explosion. The only possible contradiction is that UA 93 was supposed to be the descending airplane from northwest and not a plane that crossed Indian Lake from the east before crashing!
Which airplane "lost" debris while overflying Indian Lake: The white jet or another (second) commercial airplane?
If it was the white jet: How could it have "lost" debris?
If it was another airplane: Which airplane was it and where did it go? Why wasn't it recognized?
Special Thanks: to Team 8+ !
And to Zaphod 36 and Zeitmaschine who always insisted that the plane came from the east! They have done an extraordinary job!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x28985
Part II: ... and kiss the official UA 93 theory good-bye!
John Doe II
Jan-25-05
There seems only one possible explanation to solve the problem we face with UA 93 descending from the west and the crater that couldn't have been created by a plane coming from the west. But this solution contradicts the official flight path:
The U-turn: Maybe the plane from the west crossed the trees and passed the crash site and continued to fly east. Then it did a 180° turn and came back to the crash site from the east.
This assumption has several big problems:
- The observation of several eyewitnesses. They saw the plane crossing the trees and then "within seconds" it crashed or their description clearly implies that the crash happened right after the plane vanishing from view behind the trees. But a Boeing that would have made a complete 180°-turn as the explanation suggests would clearly have needed quite a bit of time (one minute?). It's certainly rather save to believe that all theses eyewitnesses wouldn't have mistaken something like a minute with "a second".
- The absence of eyewitnesses east of the crash site. Not a single eyewitness saw the plane continuing its flight east after the crash site. In order to manage a complete 180° turn the Boeing certainly needed quite a while. And certainly a plane flying at an altitude of a few hundred feet would have stood out! In the west of the crash site we can easily track the flight path of UA 93 due to the accounts of many eyewitnesses but in the east we completely lose it!?
Only one eyewitness could maybe be presented to support the U-turn-theory.
- This theory would still not be able to explain the raining debris. If anybody wants to propose a shoot down as a logical explanation then the U-turn-theory gets even stranger. Not only would there have been a curious lack of eyewitnesses seeing the plane turning around 180° (having to fly all in all at least 17 miles after having crossed the crash site) but also nobody saw neither a second plane (even people seeing the white plane never mention having seen UA 93!) nor the shoot down.
But if a shoot down is unlikely then how can we account for the raining debris?
(In part I of "… and kiss the official UA 93 theory good-bye" it has been shown that the eyewitnesses and also the wind direction that could be seen on the video completely contradict the official explanation that the wind blew the debris on Indian Lake and till New Baltimore (eight miles away)).
But if the U-turn-theory is of no help explaining the crater how else can it be explained?
Can we assume another plane coming from the east crashing into the ground? Hardly. We would have the simple problem that the "wrong" plane is in the crater and we would need to explain how UA 93 could have completely vanished! And for achieving the 90° hit into the ground the plane would have needed a certain altitude and most likely would have been seen from the eyewitnesses from the west.
So apparently there simply is no explanation possible and I find it rather hard to believe that all eyewitnesses didn't say the truth (this is too much of a conspiracy for me and contrary to some officials the eyewitnesses don't have a motive).
Therefore we can conclude:
Not only can we state that there was a strange encounter between the plane from the west and the white jet from the east at the moment of the crash but whatever has created the crater is not the same airplane that all the eyewitnesses have seen descending from the west. The crater can't have been created by UA 93. And most likely no plane at all can have created this crater.
This surprising conclusion doesn't contradict any eyewitness account of the crater btw. Not a single eyewitness was sure that there was a plane in the crater.
The only question remaining is:
If the plane from the west that officially is considered to have been UA 93 didn't create the crater where did it go and what did create this crater instead?
In case there has been an explosion aboard UA 93 what many CTlers believe you have to see the following problem: Officially the UA 93 comes from the west seen by many eyewitnesses. There can't have been an explosion aboard this plane. No debris found on the flight path. On the contrary debris has been found in the east, southeast till New Baltimore (8 miles away). But UA 93 never flew over New Baltimore nor Indian Lake. So there is a problem. Sure an explosion could be responsible for the raining debris but the plane wouldn't be the plane from the west that is considered as UA 93.
Problem is the explosion makes a lot of a difference. An explosion (see raining debris) could only have happened east of the crash site (over Indian Lake) but officially the plane never crossed Indian Lake. Moreover I would wonder then what the hell is the plane all the eyewitnesses do see west of the crash site following the official flight path of UA 93?? The same is evidence that against a simplist shoot down scenario.
And the white jet was present at the moment of the crash. Clearly the FBI does lie here right from the start. and concerning the debris the NTSB is lying right from the start. That makes a lot of difference. The offically acknowledged plane descending from the west cannnot have caused the crater. Or we have to consider that ALL eyewitnesses are telling lies ...
The only thing I can figure is that either:
a) one "flight 93" plane came from the east, was shot by an interceptor, spread debris and made the crater, while another "flight 93" plane overflew the witnesses acting crazy but then kept on flying and landed somewhere else. This could account for the physical evidence.
b) after over-flying the witnesses, flight 93 kept flying and didn't crash. For some reason they staged a plane crash in the area-- spread debris, a plane engine and blew up the ground to make a crater. The white plane may have something to do with this. Why they would do this, I can't figure, but it makes more sense than the official story in terms of accounting for the physical evidence.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x30634
lightninboy
Well-known member
January 25, 2011
Worst 9/11 Book of All Time?
Recently I read, Planes without Passengers: the Faked Hijackings of 9/11 by Dean Hartwell. The only thing preventing me from declaring it to be the worst "book" ever about 9/11 is that since I haven't seen them all it's possible that there is a worse one I'm not aware of. I debated his essay length self-published "book" with him on the Education Forum. He gave the following "outline" of his "ideas":
What happened to each of the planes?
Flight 11 allegedly struck World Trade Center 1 (North Tower)
Flight 11 – There was no such flight
Flight 11 Decoy ("11D") – Took off from Boston Logan airport and was identified as Flight 11
Where did 11D go? – It flew toward the World Trade Center and got within one-half mile of it
What happened to 11D? – It landed safely
What happened to WTC 1? – Another aircraft struck it
Flight 175 allegedly struck World Trade Center 2 (South Tower)
Flight 175 – It took off from Boston Logan Airport
Where did 175 go? - It flew west, switching its flight # to 89 and doing a hijacking simulation
What happened to 175? – It landed safely in Cleveland
Flight 175 Decoy ("175D") – Took off from Boston Logan Airport and was identified as 175
Where did 175D go? – It flew toward the World Trade Center and got within one-half mile of it
What happened to 175D? – It stayed in the air (unidentified) and then served as a decoy for 93
What happened to WTC 2? - Another aircraft struck it.
Flight 77 allegedly struck the Pentagon
Flight 77 – There was no such flight
Flight 77 Decoy ("77D") – It flew west and was identified as 77
What happened to 77D? – I don't know; I speculate it flew over the Pentagon
Flight 93 allegedly crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania
Flight 93 – It took off from Newark Airport
Flight 93 Decoy ("93D") – No
Where did 93 go? – It flew west
What happened to 93? It went toward Cleveland, then flew back to Pennsylvania and landed safely
In other words he is a particularly whacky brand of no planer.
http://lies-of-the-truth-movement.blogspot.com/2011/01/worst-911-book-of-all-time.html
Worst 9/11 Book of All Time?
Recently I read, Planes without Passengers: the Faked Hijackings of 9/11 by Dean Hartwell. The only thing preventing me from declaring it to be the worst "book" ever about 9/11 is that since I haven't seen them all it's possible that there is a worse one I'm not aware of. I debated his essay length self-published "book" with him on the Education Forum. He gave the following "outline" of his "ideas":
What happened to each of the planes?
Flight 11 allegedly struck World Trade Center 1 (North Tower)
Flight 11 – There was no such flight
Flight 11 Decoy ("11D") – Took off from Boston Logan airport and was identified as Flight 11
Where did 11D go? – It flew toward the World Trade Center and got within one-half mile of it
What happened to 11D? – It landed safely
What happened to WTC 1? – Another aircraft struck it
Flight 175 allegedly struck World Trade Center 2 (South Tower)
Flight 175 – It took off from Boston Logan Airport
Where did 175 go? - It flew west, switching its flight # to 89 and doing a hijacking simulation
What happened to 175? – It landed safely in Cleveland
Flight 175 Decoy ("175D") – Took off from Boston Logan Airport and was identified as 175
Where did 175D go? – It flew toward the World Trade Center and got within one-half mile of it
What happened to 175D? – It stayed in the air (unidentified) and then served as a decoy for 93
What happened to WTC 2? - Another aircraft struck it.
Flight 77 allegedly struck the Pentagon
Flight 77 – There was no such flight
Flight 77 Decoy ("77D") – It flew west and was identified as 77
What happened to 77D? – I don't know; I speculate it flew over the Pentagon
Flight 93 allegedly crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania
Flight 93 – It took off from Newark Airport
Flight 93 Decoy ("93D") – No
Where did 93 go? – It flew west
What happened to 93? It went toward Cleveland, then flew back to Pennsylvania and landed safely
In other words he is a particularly whacky brand of no planer.
http://lies-of-the-truth-movement.blogspot.com/2011/01/worst-911-book-of-all-time.html
