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90%, Obama?

Sandhusker

Well-known member
PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad and Tobago -- What's the difference between "recovered" and "traceable" when it comes to firearms seized in Mexico's bloody war against drug cartels?

The White House says none.

But that's a distinction with a difference, even if President Obama used the words interchangeably last week to talk about the role firearms smuggled from the U.S. play in Mexico's stepped up fight against entrenched, well-armed drug cartels.

"This war is being waged with guns purchased not here, but in the United States. More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border," the president said on the subject in his joint press conference with Mexican President Felipe Calderon on Thursday:

To some, it might sound as if Obama is saying 90 percent of all guns captured from the cartels originated in America. But that's not what the president means, senior National Security Council Spokesman Denis McDonough told FOX News on Saturday.

"By recovered he means traceable, guns traced back to the United States," McDonough said. "These are ATF (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms) numbers. These are the guns submitted to the ATF for tracing. That's what we mean by recovered."

As FOX News has previously reported, a large percentage of firearms recovered in Mexico from the drug cartels are not submitted to U.S. officials for tracing because they lack the necessary markings.

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Those 11,000 firearms were part of the 29,000 firearms Mexican officials recovered at crime scenes. According to the ATF, of the 11,000 submitted to U.S. officials for tracing, 6,000 could be traced somewhere because of the serial numbers or other distinctive markings. Of those 6,000 firearms, 5,114 or 90 percent, were found to have been smuggled from the U.S.

The White House stands by the president's use of the word "recovered" in describing the role firearms smuggled from the U.S. play in Mexico's drug war.

"We feel good about these numbers and that's why the president uses the word recovered," McDonough said.

Just to repeat: recovered doesn't mean the percentage of all firearms confiscated at Mexican crime scenes. It doesn't mean the subset of these firearms traceable to any source. It does mean the percentage of traceable weapons linked to a U.S. source. And, again, that total is 5,114 out of 29,000 -- or 17.6 percent -- in the years 2007 and 2008.
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Here is what Obama said earlier, ""I don’t think it’s appropriate to lie to the American people. And I think that one of the things I want to change about the culture of Washington is, not just the “big lie,” but also the “soft lie.” The fudging, the manipulation, the spin. If we can restore a sense of trust between the American people and their government, we’re going to go a long way to changing the country for the better."
 

Texan

Well-known member
"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border," the president said.
This is clearly another Obama lie. This President is treating the voters like fools with all of his lies.

Why are you Obama supporters willing to accept this?

Why don't any of you have the integrity to speak out against the lies?
 

MoGal

Well-known member
Probably because they would have to admit we have the most antichristian president ever who is furthering a global agenda that is not in the best interests of the USA or the american people.

Probably because they would have to admit that his "change" to Hitler's socialism and fascism was not what they had in mind.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
MoGal said:
Probably because they would have to admit we have the most antichristian president ever who is furthering a global agenda that is not in the best interests of the USA or the american people.

Probably because they would have to admit that his "change" to Hitler's socialism and fascism was not what they had in mind.

MoGal-- Who did you support for President ?
You've peaked my curiosity since you were saying much of the same WND conspiracy and John Birch rhetoric against Bush and the Republicans when they were in control...
 

MoGal

Well-known member
Ah, I don't support parties OT..... I vote for the person.

I voted for Ron Paul in August and for Palin in November (lol) in hopes McCain would slip on a banana peel.
 

MoGal

Well-known member
It may not have been in august , it may have been earlier than that whenever it was that MO got to vote. I'm thinking maybe it was March?? anyway I got to stand in line because they had the largest turnout ever.... ever.

OT, it doesn't matter who we vote for as they are controlled behind the scenes. I read somewhere that the Rothchild's were the ones who funded John Birch just to have a controversy.
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Texan said:
"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border," the president said.
This is clearly another Obama lie. This President is treating the voters like fools with all of his lies.
Why are you Obama supporters willing to accept this?

Why don't any of you have the integrity to speak out against the lies?
Many Obama voter were/are fools...the rest gullible!!!
 

MoGal

Well-known member
I think black folks were fooled because they looked at color only.

Back in the summer, I was at a hospital in St. Louis and was talking to a couple of workers there (also black) and they were just giddy about Obama.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Texan said:
"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border," the president said.
This is clearly another Obama lie. This President is treating the voters like fools with all of his lies.

Why are you Obama supporters willing to accept this?

Why don't any of you have the integrity to speak out against the lies?[/quote]

I was kind of wondering the same.....
 

Texan

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Texan said:
"More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border," the president said.
This is clearly another Obama lie. This President is treating the voters like fools with all of his lies.

Why are you Obama supporters willing to accept this?

Why don't any of you have the integrity to speak out against the lies?

I was kind of wondering the same.....
Well, Sandhusker - looks like it will continue to be one of life's great mysteries...
 

Larrry

Well-known member
Tell Mexico if they don't want the guns and they firmly believe that the US is the problem then they can close the border between us. We kill two birds with one stone, cut down illegal immigration and still protect our second amendment rights.

One county in the whole US. Along the same line in a sort is this:

El Paso jail locks in feds' funding
Immigration enforcement yields new revenue during tight times.
By Bruce Finley
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/19/2009 12:30:00 AM MDT
Updated: 04/19/2009 12:42:49 AM MDT


Faced with a budget crunch that forced him to lay off deputies, El Paso County Sheriff Terry Maketa has tapped a new source of revenue: illegal immigrants.

Maketa has started leasing space in his jail to house an average of 150 immigrants a night for federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement. He also sent 17 jail deputies for training in immigration procedures so they can initiate deportations without waiting for federal agents.

ICE pays $62.40 a night for each detained immigrant, plus mileage for transport in sheriff's vans. The arrangement pumped $3.6 million into El Paso County over the past year and now provides 10 percent of the jail's budget.

But Maketa said the money is just one factor driving his broadening alliance with ICE.

"I feel like we're truly contributing to (solving) a national problem," said Maketa, one of 67 law enforcement agency chiefs nationwide who have had deputies authorized to enforce federal immigration laws.

His large-scale detention deal hasn't caught on with fellow Front Range sheriffs, but ICE officials have hashed out agreements to hold at least some immigrants for short periods in 40 of Colorado's 64 county jails. Nationwide, sheriffs and other local agency chiefs are lining up to do as Maketa has done in having deputies authorized to initiate deportations.

Several Denver-area sheriffs — annoyed at delays in relying on a limited number of ICE agents to handle possible illegal immigrants in jails — say they're considering sending deputies for federal ICE training.

"There's support from taxpayers to take the next step" in immigration enforcement, Jefferson County Sheriff Ted Mink said.

"In light of some of the things that have happened, obviously the case in Aurora of the kid that got killed in the ice cream shop and some other situations (involving illegal immigrants), we want to be doggone sure of who is coming through our jail," Mink said. "If we can use technology to do that, and additional training to do that — even though it's a federal responsibility — we are willing to do that."

A common sight in jails

On any given night, most jails in the Denver area and across Colorado hold suspected illegal immigrants. Under state law, jailors must notify ICE and, if ICE is interested and able, the agency places a hold on the inmate. If ICE agents fail to pick up the inmate within 48 hours, the inmate is released when local charges are resolved.

But that raises public safety concerns and is not something the public wants, said Weld County Sheriff John Cooke, who added that he, like other sheriffs, had previously been reluctant to take on an immigration role.

"Everybody's attitude was: 'That's the job of the federal government, and we're not going to do it for them.' Well, when the federal government isn't doing their job, the sheriffs get frustrated and the citizens get frustrated," Cooke said. "We're going to do the right thing for the citizens of our counties."

On a recent night in Maketa's El Paso County jail, more than 200 immigrants from Mexico, Taiwan and elsewhere were incarcerated — outfitted in the same orange suits and housed alongside criminals including murderers, rapists and other felons with Taser-equipped deputies keeping watch.

About 70 percent of the immigrants were held for no crime — only the federal civil offense of violating immigration rules. They arrived at the jail in sheriff's vans that collect them from federal custody in Denver and Pueblo.

The rest were inmates who'd been arrested by police for crimes in the Colorado Springs area and then checked against immigration computers by one of the 17 trained deputies with access to the database. These deputies immediately start federal deportation proceedings — and start billing ICE for the cost of housing those inmates.

"When county budgets are decreasing, this is a revenue source," detention bureau chief Paula Presley said.

Now under a video hookup to federal immigration courts, a sheriff's meeting room may serve as a forum for federal judicial proceedings.

"It's hard because all my family is in Denver," Rodolfo Gonzalez, 19, said as deputies led him in shackles from a van. He faces deportation to Mexico.

No active patrols for ICE

For now, Maketa says he does not want deputies actively looking for illegal immigrants while on patrol — and the only deputies who are authorized to do immigration work are at the jail.

That's the same approach sheriffs say they're contemplating in Arapahoe, Weld, Jefferson and other counties. But not Denver.

Denver authorities oppose any increased collaboration with federal agents, beyond the notification all counties must make, under state law, when suspected illegal immigrants are jailed for crimes.

"We don't help out the IRS either," said Bill Lovingier, Denver undersheriff and director of corrections. Enforcing the civil offense of being in the country illegally "is a federal responsibility. It's a federal issue. If they want local help, they should provide us resources. We are already stretched."

The County Sheriffs of Colorado association remains "quite strongly against doing the feds' work" on immigration, executive director Don Christensen said. "We feel we can't get the support from the federal government that we should have. When we do find (illegal immigrants), they don't come and get them. They fill up our jails and we have to turn them loose," he said.

Federal officials recently told Congress that 951 deputies nationwide are authorized to work with some 6,000 ICE agents — resulting in 90,000 additional deportations over the past year.

A Government Accountability Office report recently concluded better controls are needed as federal officials enlist state and local police to enforce immigration laws. It found that the power shift prompted concerns that more local power could lead to racial profiling and intimidation by police.

Arguments against

U.S. Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo., said increased local roles in immigration law enforcement "is a symptom of an immigration system that is completely busted."

Barring an unlikely influx of federal money, "converting our local police forces into operations that are focused on immigration is not a good use of our resources," Bennet said. "We should be concerned with felonies and other serious crimes and public safety. It is naive to believe that our police departments, which are already strained, county law enforcement, which is already strained, is going to be able to pick all this up. . . . We're not going to fix these issues until we have comprehensive immigration reform."

Colorado Immigrant Rights Coalition spokeswoman Chandra Russo said the incarceration of growing numbers of immigrants alongside criminals in county jails is inhumane and wasteful. The power to initiate deportations "gives local law enforcement agencies more ammunition to do discriminatory policing," Russo said.

Some urban policing leaders, such as Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates, contend local immigration enforcement undermines trust police need to fight crime in diverse communities.

In El Paso County, Maketa said his deputies have the same needs. "We need (immigrants) as witnesses. We need them to bring forward reports of criminal activity," he said.

"But that doesn't mean you completely ignore federal law. If you have an individual who breaks the law and is here illegally, they need to be dealt with — not given amnesty, not given some special preferential treatment that a citizen would not get. What is fair?"




http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_12174856
 
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