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A border question for OT

Whitewing

Well-known member
Looking at some of your thoughts on border security from 2006, I decided I'd ask a simple question. This one is so simple that I don't need one of your tutorials on why it's all W's fault, the tea party's fault, etc.

Compared to 2006, in your opinion, how do conditions (security in particular) compare today?

1) Better
2) The same
3) Worse

Just give me the number, thanks.
 

Steve

Well-known member
example of liberal spin....

Well Obama brought our troops home from Iraq, and we are not fighting we are not fighting terrorist anymore,.. so things are better now.

besides with only 6% unemployment we will need all these new immigrants to keep wages and inflation under control..

Bush was all for immigration.,.. even had a illegal nanny..

I would say the liberals will come up with #4 ,.. (four excuses that is) :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Looking at some of your thoughts on border security from 2006, I decided I'd ask a simple question. This one is so simple that I don't need one of your tutorials on why it's all W's fault, the tea party's fault, etc.

Compared to 2006, in your opinion, how do conditions (security in particular) compare today?

1) Better
2) The same
3) Worse

Just give me the number, thanks.

2) The same...
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Looking at some of your thoughts on border security from 2006, I decided I'd ask a simple question. This one is so simple that I don't need one of your tutorials on why it's all W's fault, the tea party's fault, etc.

Compared to 2006, in your opinion, how do conditions (security in particular) compare today?

1) Better
2) The same
3) Worse

Just give me the number, thanks.

2) The same...

:roll: Talk about being in a state of denial and having one's head in the sand! :roll:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Looking at some of your thoughts on border security from 2006, I decided I'd ask a simple question. This one is so simple that I don't need one of your tutorials on why it's all W's fault, the tea party's fault, etc.

Compared to 2006, in your opinion, how do conditions (security in particular) compare today?

1) Better
2) The same
3) Worse

Just give me the number, thanks.

2) The same...

BORDER BREAKDOWN:
President to push amnesty at July 4 naturalization ceremony...
WIRE: Under pressure to visit border...
Planned TX trip: Three Fundraisers, No Border Visit...
Dallas Commissioner Plans to House Illegals in Schools...
VIDEO: Coyote smuggles illegals across on jet ski...
Migrants found hiding between pallets in 18-wheeler...
Ranchers threatened: 'Look other way or face consequences'...
SHOWDOWN: TOWN BRACES FOR DUMPING BACKLASH...
Packed Town Hall Sounds Alarm On Invasion...
Residents vow to block new arrivals...
MESS: Children sent to Houston -- to be flown elsewhere...
LIMBAUGH: Obama's Border Patrol Now Taxpayer-Funded Coyotes!
SAVAGE: Media hiding disease threat...
Agents Report Increase in 'Fake Families'...
MILITARY BASES 'TURNING INTO REFUGEE CAMPS'...
Interactive map: Government effort to relocate illegals...
RON PAUL: Hospitals under siege...
Quarantine area 'nothing more than piece of yellow caution tape'...
PERRY: 'Those Who Have Come Must Be Sent Back'...
TEXAS WEIGHS LAWSUIT AGAINST FEDS...
Gov. Jerry Brown 1975: Don't 'Dump Vietnamese' Refugees on California...
'Homeland Security' gives free border pass to Mexican narcotics informant...
 

Traveler

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Looking at some of your thoughts on border security from 2006, I decided I'd ask a simple question. This one is so simple that I don't need one of your tutorials on why it's all W's fault, the tea party's fault, etc.

Compared to 2006, in your opinion, how do conditions (security in particular) compare today?

1) Better
2) The same
3) Worse

Just give me the number, thanks.

2) The same...

BORDER BREAKDOWN:
President to push amnesty at July 4 naturalization ceremony...
WIRE: Under pressure to visit border...
Planned TX trip: Three Fundraisers, No Border Visit...
Dallas Commissioner Plans to House Illegals in Schools...
VIDEO: Coyote smuggles illegals across on jet ski...
Migrants found hiding between pallets in 18-wheeler...
Ranchers threatened: 'Look other way or face consequences'...
SHOWDOWN: TOWN BRACES FOR DUMPING BACKLASH...
Packed Town Hall Sounds Alarm On Invasion...
Residents vow to block new arrivals...
MESS: Children sent to Houston -- to be flown elsewhere...
LIMBAUGH: Obama's Border Patrol Now Taxpayer-Funded Coyotes!
SAVAGE: Media hiding disease threat...
Agents Report Increase in 'Fake Families'...
MILITARY BASES 'TURNING INTO REFUGEE CAMPS'...
Interactive map: Government effort to relocate illegals...
RON PAUL: Hospitals under siege...
Quarantine area 'nothing more than piece of yellow caution tape'...
PERRY: 'Those Who Have Come Must Be Sent Back'...
TEXAS WEIGHS LAWSUIT AGAINST FEDS...
Gov. Jerry Brown 1975: Don't 'Dump Vietnamese' Refugees on California...
'Homeland Security' gives free border pass to Mexican narcotics informant...
Hope and Change, fundamentally changing America. Anyone who didn't see this coming from way back had their head up their ass.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You asked about security-- actually I probably should have said 1) More-- as there are more border patrol agents and more fence then there was in 2006... As this article mentions- whether that equates to security is questionable... Infrastructurally I believe it does- but might not rate to the border being secure...

Also as this article mention- the number of illegals fluctuates on different conditions in this country-- illegals fled the country with the bad economy of the Bush Bust- and are now returning with the improving economy and the hope of being in the country when a new immigration law is passed...Right now the mass migration from the south is challenging the security infrastructure...


The Truth-O-Meter Says:


Wasserman Schultz
"President Obama has the most border patrols and border security deployed at the border of any previous president."

Debbie Wasserman Schultz on Thursday, June 20th, 2013 in an interview on MSNBC



More border security and patrols under Obama than previous presidents, says Debbie Wasserman Schultz

Mostly True



A few days before the U.S. Senate took a vote in favor of an amendment to expand border patrol and other border security measures, U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz defended President Barack Obama’s record on border patrol and security.

MSNBC anchor Thomas Roberts asked Wasserman Schultz to respond to critics, including House Republicans, who say the bill as amnesty or portray immigrants as "takers."

Wasserman Schultz, who also serves as chair of the Democratic National Committee, portrayed Obama as tough on enforcement.

"President Obama has the most border patrols and border security deployed at the border of any previous president," said Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla. in a June 20 interview on MSNBC. Obama "has cracked down employers -- on employers who are attracting undocumented immigrants and hiring them more than any previous president."

PolitiFact has previously examined some similar claims about border patrol during Obama’s presidency. But here we wanted to fact-check Wasserman Schultz’s specific claims that Obama holds a record for border patrol and security.

Border patrol

The Border Patrol buildup began under President Bill Clinton with Operation Gatekeeper and Safeguards, but expanded dramatically under President George W. Bush, said Katherine Benton-Cohen, a Georgetown history professor.

The number of border patrol agents increased dramatically between fiscal years 1993 and Sept. 30, 2012. (So did spending.) Nationwide, the peak year was in 2011 with 21,444 agents -- the number dropped slightly to 21,394 in fiscal year 2012.

Douglas Massey, a professor at Princeton University's Office of Population Research who has studied immigration issues, previously told PolitiFact that the total number of agents is a record going back to at least 1924.

The biggest bump in Border Patrol staffing came under Obama’s predecessor, President George W. Bush. Between 2001 and 2009, the number of agents posted nationally rose from about 9,800 to a little more than 20,000.

Border fence

In addition to border patrol, Wasserman Schultz also gave credit to Obama for the most "border security deployed" -- a more general term that we took to include fences or other technological or infrastructure improvements.

The first fence along the southwestern border was built in 1990 but was comparatively small: Prior to 2005 there were 78 miles of pedestrian fencing and 57 miles of vehicle barriers, according to a paper by the Migration Policy Institute.

The Secure Fence Act of 2006, passed by a Republican-led Congress and was signed by Bush. It authorized the construction of hundreds of miles of additional fencing along the border with Mexico and called for adding unmanned aerial vehicles, satellites, radar and cameras. The fenced segments totaled roughly 650-700 miles, while the entire U.S.-Mexican border is about 2,000 miles long. Obama, an Illinois senator at the time, voted for the law.

The act specified "at least two layers of reinforced fencing," but in 2007 the law was altered to give the Border Patrol leeway to decide the type of fencing. By the time Obama became president in January 2009, much of the fence was completed -- but not of the type originally planned.

In February 2011, a GAO report about the border presented a mixed picture of progress.

The report states that between fiscal years 2005 and 2010, the number of border miles that had fences increased from about 120 to 649. A preliminary analysis of border miles under control showed 15 percent were "controlled" while the rest were "managed" and left vulnerabilities to illegal activity.

For this fact-check, Wasserman Schultz’s spokesman sent us a 2011 White House immigration report that stated "DHS has also completed 649 miles of fencing out of nearly 652 miles planned, including 299 miles of vehicle barriers and 350 miles of pedestrian fence, with the remaining 3 miles scheduled to be completed."

Spokesman Jonathan Beeton also pointed to the fact that Obama signed a bill in 2010 in response to increased violence in Mexico that included $600 million in supplemental funds for enhanced border protection. Separately, an additional 1,200 National Guard troops were authorized for the the border.

Fencing isn’t the only way the federal government has attempted to manage the border. The Secure Border Initiative launched in 2005 with the intention to combine fencing with technological tools such as cameras, sensors and radar, according to a paper from the Migration Policy Institute. Boeing won a contract and received about $860 million from the federal government.

But it quickly ran into technical difficulties, cost overruns and delays, which have been criticized in numerous Government Accountability Office reports. Under the Obama administration, the program was canceled in January 2011, and the Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano ordered that the government should focus on using proven technologies, such as video and mobile surveillance and thermal imaging.

Under Obama, border apprehensions have fallen from their high points. Border apprehensions peaked at almost 1.7 million in 2000 under President Clinton, and apprehensions in 2011 were at the lowest level since 1970. The post-2008 declines are due to the recession and loss of jobs which had attracted unauthorized immigrants. Net illegal immigration from Mexico has fallen to zero or even fewer coming than leaving.

Expert analysis

We sent Wasserman Schultz’s claim to immigration experts. No one disputed the border patrol numbers, but they also pointed to other factors when examining changes in border security that provide a more complex picture.

"Yes, the number of Border Patrol agents is at an all-time high," said Rey Koslowski, an expert on the border and an associate professor of political science and public policy at the University at Albany. "Whether that equates to ‘border security’ is another question. As to who should get more credit for border security, the fence was a bipartisan project."

Christopher Wilson, an associate with the Wilson Center’s Mexico Institute and an expert on border management, noted that border patrol agents don’t precisely equal border security.

"In the end, though, you can’t deploy border security, it must be something that is achieved. This gets into one of the major problems with the whole border security debate—the lack of an accepted definition of the term."

Our ruling

Wasserman Schultz said, "President Obama has the most border patrols and border security deployed at the border of any previous president."

She is correct that the highest number of border patrol agents has been under Obama: there were 21,444 in 2011. Wasserman Schultz was careful here and said "most" and didn’t talk about the growth rate. But it’s worth noting that the big growth was during Bush’s tenure: between 2001 and 2009, the number of agents posted nationally rose from about 9,800 to a little more than 20,000.

Other border security measures are not as simple to quantify. The key piece of infrastructure -- the fence -- was launched under Bush. Work on the fence and other border security improvements continued under Obama.

We rate this claim Mostly True.



http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/jul/01/debbie-wasserman-schultz/more-border-security-and-patrols-under-obama-previ/
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
You asked about security-- actually I probably should have said 1) More-- as there are more border patrol agents and more fence then there was in 2006... As this article mentions- whether that equates to security is questionable... Infrastructurally I believe it does- but might not rate to the border being secure...

Also as this article mention- the number of illegals fluctuates on different conditions in this country-- illegals fled the country with the bad economy of the Bush Bust- and are now returning with the improving economy and the hope of being in the country when a new immigration law is passed...Right now the mass migration from the south is challenging the security infrastructure...


The Truth-O-Meter Says:


Wasserman Schultz
"President Obama has the most border patrols and border security deployed at the border of any previous president."

Debbie Wasserman Schultz on Thursday, June 20th, 2013 in an interview on MSNBC



More border security and patrols under Obama than previous presidents, says Debbie Wasserman Schultz

Mostly True



A few days before the U.S. Senate took a vote in favor of an amendment to expand border patrol and other border security measures, U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz defended President Barack Obama’s record on border patrol and security.

MSNBC anchor Thomas Roberts asked Wasserman Schultz to respond to critics, including House Republicans, who say the bill as amnesty or portray immigrants as "takers."

Wasserman Schultz, who also serves as chair of the Democratic National Committee, portrayed Obama as tough on enforcement.

"President Obama has the most border patrols and border security deployed at the border of any previous president," said Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla. in a June 20 interview on MSNBC. Obama "has cracked down employers -- on employers who are attracting undocumented immigrants and hiring them more than any previous president."

PolitiFact has previously examined some similar claims about border patrol during Obama’s presidency. But here we wanted to fact-check Wasserman Schultz’s specific claims that Obama holds a record for border patrol and security.

Border patrol

The Border Patrol buildup began under President Bill Clinton with Operation Gatekeeper and Safeguards, but expanded dramatically under President George W. Bush, said Katherine Benton-Cohen, a Georgetown history professor.

The number of border patrol agents increased dramatically between fiscal years 1993 and Sept. 30, 2012. (So did spending.) Nationwide, the peak year was in 2011 with 21,444 agents -- the number dropped slightly to 21,394 in fiscal year 2012.

Douglas Massey, a professor at Princeton University's Office of Population Research who has studied immigration issues, previously told PolitiFact that the total number of agents is a record going back to at least 1924.

The biggest bump in Border Patrol staffing came under Obama’s predecessor, President George W. Bush. Between 2001 and 2009, the number of agents posted nationally rose from about 9,800 to a little more than 20,000.

Border fence

In addition to border patrol, Wasserman Schultz also gave credit to Obama for the most "border security deployed" -- a more general term that we took to include fences or other technological or infrastructure improvements.

The first fence along the southwestern border was built in 1990 but was comparatively small: Prior to 2005 there were 78 miles of pedestrian fencing and 57 miles of vehicle barriers, according to a paper by the Migration Policy Institute.

The Secure Fence Act of 2006, passed by a Republican-led Congress and was signed by Bush. It authorized the construction of hundreds of miles of additional fencing along the border with Mexico and called for adding unmanned aerial vehicles, satellites, radar and cameras. The fenced segments totaled roughly 650-700 miles, while the entire U.S.-Mexican border is about 2,000 miles long. Obama, an Illinois senator at the time, voted for the law.

The act specified "at least two layers of reinforced fencing," but in 2007 the law was altered to give the Border Patrol leeway to decide the type of fencing. By the time Obama became president in January 2009, much of the fence was completed -- but not of the type originally planned.

In February 2011, a GAO report about the border presented a mixed picture of progress.

The report states that between fiscal years 2005 and 2010, the number of border miles that had fences increased from about 120 to 649. A preliminary analysis of border miles under control showed 15 percent were "controlled" while the rest were "managed" and left vulnerabilities to illegal activity.

For this fact-check, Wasserman Schultz’s spokesman sent us a 2011 White House immigration report that stated "DHS has also completed 649 miles of fencing out of nearly 652 miles planned, including 299 miles of vehicle barriers and 350 miles of pedestrian fence, with the remaining 3 miles scheduled to be completed."

Spokesman Jonathan Beeton also pointed to the fact that Obama signed a bill in 2010 in response to increased violence in Mexico that included $600 million in supplemental funds for enhanced border protection. Separately, an additional 1,200 National Guard troops were authorized for the the border.

Fencing isn’t the only way the federal government has attempted to manage the border. The Secure Border Initiative launched in 2005 with the intention to combine fencing with technological tools such as cameras, sensors and radar, according to a paper from the Migration Policy Institute. Boeing won a contract and received about $860 million from the federal government.

But it quickly ran into technical difficulties, cost overruns and delays, which have been criticized in numerous Government Accountability Office reports. Under the Obama administration, the program was canceled in January 2011, and the Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano ordered that the government should focus on using proven technologies, such as video and mobile surveillance and thermal imaging.

Under Obama, border apprehensions have fallen from their high points. Border apprehensions peaked at almost 1.7 million in 2000 under President Clinton, and apprehensions in 2011 were at the lowest level since 1970. The post-2008 declines are due to the recession and loss of jobs which had attracted unauthorized immigrants. Net illegal immigration from Mexico has fallen to zero or even fewer coming than leaving.

Expert analysis

We sent Wasserman Schultz’s claim to immigration experts. No one disputed the border patrol numbers, but they also pointed to other factors when examining changes in border security that provide a more complex picture.

"Yes, the number of Border Patrol agents is at an all-time high," said Rey Koslowski, an expert on the border and an associate professor of political science and public policy at the University at Albany. "Whether that equates to ‘border security’ is another question. As to who should get more credit for border security, the fence was a bipartisan project."

Christopher Wilson, an associate with the Wilson Center’s Mexico Institute and an expert on border management, noted that border patrol agents don’t precisely equal border security.

"In the end, though, you can’t deploy border security, it must be something that is achieved. This gets into one of the major problems with the whole border security debate—the lack of an accepted definition of the term."

Our ruling

Wasserman Schultz said, "President Obama has the most border patrols and border security deployed at the border of any previous president."

She is correct that the highest number of border patrol agents has been under Obama: there were 21,444 in 2011. Wasserman Schultz was careful here and said "most" and didn’t talk about the growth rate. But it’s worth noting that the big growth was during Bush’s tenure: between 2001 and 2009, the number of agents posted nationally rose from about 9,800 to a little more than 20,000.

Other border security measures are not as simple to quantify. The key piece of infrastructure -- the fence -- was launched under Bush. Work on the fence and other border security improvements continued under Obama.

We rate this claim Mostly True.



http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/jul/01/debbie-wasserman-schultz/more-border-security-and-patrols-under-obama-previ/

Why can't you just be honest OT? The Messiah has sent the message to everyone south of the border that if you can get to the US, you can stay. That's what's going on at the border. You can post border agents shoulder to shoulder from Brownsville to Tiajuana, but if the HNIC says, "let 'em in", then they're in.

If you're okay with that, just say so. If you're not okay with that, then say so. It's not going to kill you to say something negative about The Messiah, and unlike you, there's no one here who's going to drop a dime on you for being honest.
 

Mike

Well-known member
OT has such a hard time with the truth................... :roll:

The mandate to increase border security was initiated by Bush and Congress, Obama had no choice but to continue.

“Under Secretary Napolitano’s leadership, we have strengthened border security beyond what many believed was possible. They wanted more agents on the border. Well, we now have more boots on the ground on the southwest border than at any time in our history. The Border Patrol has 20,000 agents – more than twice as many as there were in 2004, a build up that began under President Bush and that we have continued.”

--President Obama, May 10, 2011



President Obama traveled to El Paso, Tex., Tuesday to give a speech on immigration, even though virtually no one in Washington thinks there is any desire in Congress to tackle the issue. For that reason, as colleague Chris Cillizza noted on “The Fix,” the speech should be understood as “a political document rather than a policy one.”

In that context, it’s important for the president to demonstrate he is working hard to improve border security. We were struck by the section above, in part because it sought to claim credit for a doubling of agents but also acknowledged a debt to former president George W. Bush. (We will not delve in the historical question of whether “more boots on the ground” is accurate, since our colleagues at Politifact.com did a fine job of exploring that question last year.)

How much did the Obama administration do on this issue?



The Facts

The Border Patrol, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security, is responsible for patrolling the borders with Canada and Mexico, as well as coastal waters around Florida, but the majority of its agents — 85 percent — are focused on the southern border with Mexico. At the time of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, there were slightly more than 9,000 Border Patrol agents.



Even after 9/11, growth in the Border Patrol was limited to about 500 a year until immigration became a hot issue. In 2004, Congress passed the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act, which called for adding no less than 2,000 border agents a year “subject to the availability of appropriations.” Then, in 2006, President Bush announced he would immediately dispatch 6,000 National Guard members to the Southern Border states and seek to double the number of agents by quickly hiring 6,000 new ones.

In his speech, Obama gave a nod to Bush’s actions, saying this was a “build up that began under President Bush and that we have continued.” This is a more elegant formulation than the phrasing used by Obama’s spokesman, Jay Carney, in briefings previewing the speech this week. Carney simply erased Bush out of the picture.

On Monday, Carney said: “I think he [Obama] will make points about the steps we've taken on border security, the fact that the number of border agents today is double what it was in 2004.” On Tuesday, Carney said: “We have substantially increased the number of Border Patrol agents twice -- more than 20,000 now -- twice the number that there were in 2004.”

However, that 20,000 number was on track to be achieved before Obama ever took the oath of office. By the end of fiscal year 2009, which began on Oct. 1, 2008, there were 20,119 Border Patrol agents.

On Oct. 20, 2009, the Border Patrol website put up a notice saying it was no longer hiring: “The Border Patrol successfully filled the Presidential mandate of hiring 6,000 additional Border Patrol Agents (BPA) and presently has sufficient applicants to meet their continuing hiring goals. Therefore, the Reinstatement Program is indefinitely suspended and will no longer accept applications.”

That would be Bush’s mandate.

In fact, in the fiscal year 2011 budget, announced in early 2010, Obama proposed to let the number of border agents drop by 180 through attrition as a budget-saving maneuver. But then in June of last year, after Republican lawmakers balked at an immigration overhaul without a boost in border security, the administration suddenly requested an additional $600 million for security along the southwest border. The money in part would be used to hire an additional 1,000 agents. That bill passed a few months later.

In its 2012 budget proposal, the Department of Homeland Security said that it had hired 439 additional agents in 2010 and was on track to have a total of 21,370 agents by the end of this fiscal year. Homeland Security said it would maintain that level in 2012.

There are currently about 20,700 border agents, a Homeland Security Department spokesman said.



The Pinocchio Test

Obama certainly phrased this more accurately than his spokesman, but the set-up — “we have strengthened” -- might leave the listener with the impression that much of this growth in the border force was accomplished under the Obama administration. The doubling in agents was a goal set in place by Bush. Obama has added additional agents beyond Bush’s goal, though only under pressure from Congress. His initial instinct was to throttle back.

We don’t give half-Pinocchios, but Obama’s statement would almost qualify. But it followed two days of spin by his spokesman, who clearly left listeners with the wrong impression.



One Pinocchio
 

Mike

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
The fatman would make a good spokesman for The Messiah.

I respectfully disagree. The press would eat him alive every time he opened his mouth. His lies are so obvious a three year old would question them. :wink:

A press conference would look like "Hee Haw".......................
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Mike said:
Whitewing said:
The fatman would make a good spokesman for The Messiah.

I respectfully disagree. The press would eat him alive every time he opened his mouth. His lies are so obvious a three year old would question them. :wink:

A press conference would look like "Hee Haw".......................

Yeah, I know. But I was thinking more along the lines of how a Messiah spokesman gets an auto-pass from the press. Besides, with his head so far up The Messiah's ass, they'd hear only muffled sounds anyway. :lol:
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
illegals fled the country with the bad economy of the Bush Bust- and are now returning with the improving economy and the hope of being in the country when a new immigration law is passed...

And you really believe this shyt?? Tell that to the 500,000 American citizens who lost their full-time jobs in June. Maybe those illegals are coming for the part time jobs that some seem to find.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
OT has such a hard time with the truth................... :roll:

The mandate to increase border security was initiated by Bush and Congress, Obama had no choice but to continue.

I think that's what the article I posted said- in fact it said much of the increase was due to policies/programs of Clinton and Bush...

BUT Whitewing asked about the "security" and infrastructurally the border has more security today then in 2006 just because of the adding of the more Border Patrolmen and fencing....
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
If 70% of the new BP agents are hand holding illegals in "camps" and the agents on the actual border were explicitly told to take a permanent coffee break, how the phuck is the border more "secure"???

Dear Leader will have those Spics and Greasers voting Democrat for the next 200 years, and OT feels "secure"....
 
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