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A challenge to any forum liberal or O-supporter

Whitewing

Well-known member
As I'm sure most of you came down squarely against Bush's horrible, bloody, immoral war against Saddam, please lay out the case as to why our current military intervention in Libya is as justified (or even more justified) as our military intervention in Iraq was in 2003.

Apparently Obama's own Secretary of Defense is not convinced that Libya was/is a threat to the United States.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/defense-secretary-libya-did-not-pose-threat-to-us-was-not-vital-national-interest-to-intervene.html

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said that Libya did not pose a threat to the United States before the U.S. began its military campaign against the North African country.

On “This Week,” ABC News’ Senior White House Correspondent Jake Tapper asked Gates, “Do you think Libya posed an actual or imminent threat to the United States?”

“No, no,” Gates said in a joint appearance with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. “It was not -- it was not a vital national interest to the United States, but it was an interest and it was an interest for all of the reasons Secretary Clinton talked about. The engagement of the Arabs, the engagement of the Europeans, the general humanitarian question that was at stake,” he said.

======================

I'll hold my breath until someone lays out their case. :D
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
From what I've read, it appears that Hitlary was pushing for this all along. You don't think that perhaps she imagines that this would be the downfall of the Magic Negro, letting a different Dem candidate (herself, perhaps?) take the Dem nomination for POTUS in 2012 away from him? There is a helluva lot more going on here than meets the eye.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Seems someone was upset back in 2008 about unjustified wars against countries that had never attacked us and presented no threat to the United States.

Oldtimer said:
hotdryplace said:
'the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians '


OT; Are you calling our troops mass murderers?

Nope- just that their leader who lied and falsified info to bring about an unjustified war-that he sent troops half way around the world to invade a nation that had never attacked us or "presented any threat to the US" - the reason the US has no standing in the world now.......

I'm betting he's really PO'd now. :D
 

hopalong

Well-known member
But where is his indignation at the audacity of Obama to do such an unjust action, where is his posts condemning this POTUS of such an ILLEGAL action ???
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
hopalong said:
But where is his indignation at the audacity of Obama to do such an unjust action, where is his posts condemning this POTUS of such an ILLEGAL action ???

I suspect OT's keeping his indignation about unjustified wars in the same spot he's keeping his indignation about the suspension of habeas corpus for Gitmo detainees. A practice his Messiah has also embraced. But The One has one-upped W. Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right?

Oldtimer said:
Even Congress and the President can't throw out the Constitution- and I believe that Kennedy's opinion is correct- no matter how bad the situation is- we cannot start bending or throw out habeas corpus- the right to be informed of why you are detained/arrested and the right to challenge those charges in front of a Court/tribunal......

All the constitutionalists- and constitutional scholars are saying the same thing---- the Supreme Court bent over backwards with the new law, King Georges throwing out of habeas corpus- and allowed it-- until 4-5-6 years had passed and these people being detained weren't even being given status hearings- or regular reviews in front of military tribunals- and that it appeared that this would/could continue indefinitely- especially after testimony to the courts/congress showed that some of those being detained had no terrorist connections at all- and that contrary to GW's previous statements the US was using torture contrary to International Law and the Geneva Convention...

Like I said before-- King George brought this ruling upon himself (and the country) with his ARROGANCE believing he could imprison people forever without ever having them allowed a hearing or an appeal- and then International banned torture practices on them.....

Since he failed to follow the rules of determining and detaining enemy combatants- and then ARROGANTLY refused to heed the Supreme Courts previous rulings- now it will be in the hands of Federal District Court Judges to decide from case to case.....

As they proclaim- even the almost 200 evil Nazi perpetrators of mass genocide and war crimes were brought to complete OPEN trial within 4 years of being caught- with trials starting in 1945 and continuing thru 1949...OPEN trials that showed the world the fairness and impartiality of our Country's Justice System- which has been so badly impaired by King Georges actions that it will take years to repair.... :( :( :mad:

What are we left to think about all this? I know what I think about it. Unless and until forum libs denounce Obama for the exact same acts for which they denounced Bush, their cries of indignation ring hollow.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Here's another interesting comment from OT. Well, at least Obama isn't falling for that "drill baby drill" crapola. He's asking Brazil to do the heavy lifting for us. :D

Oldtimer said:
And what has McCain came up with for an answer? More of Bush policy- drill and borrow.... :( The only suggestion I've heard come out of him is a gas tax holiday- which means less funds for bridges and roads-- just more borrowing off our kids and grandkids...

Now really folks, who could possibly whine about Bush's borrowing and then sit on their hands while the O Administration does the same in spades (no racial pun intended)?
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Seems bi-partisanship too was once high on OT's list of Good Things a Good President does.

Oldtimer said:
Presidents of the past used much of their power to work with the leadership of both houses to work out legislation which was needed/beneficial/believed necessary at the time....Even Clinton did at times....
Now all it seems to be is confrontation- and in doing so is further dividing the population.....

The leaders of this country should try to run this country and set policy by what the feelings of the majority of the people of the country want-instead of the current policy of whichever lobbyiest pays the most money-- and especially not doing as GW has by arrogantly promoting a policy of avoiding enforcement of the laws he doesn't like, while often going against the wishes of the nation...

Obama's valiant efforts to compromise with Republicans on ObamaCare must have made our forum liberals proud. :lol:

And is he really whining about the power of lobbyists??? :???:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
hopalong said:
But where is his indignation at the audacity of Obama to do such an unjust action, where is his posts condemning this POTUS of such an ILLEGAL action ???

I suspect OT's keeping his indignation about unjustified wars in the same spot he's keeping his indignation about the suspension of habeas corpus for Gitmo detainees. A practice his Messiah has also embraced. But The One has one-upped W. Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right?

Oldtimer said:
Even Congress and the President can't throw out the Constitution- and I believe that Kennedy's opinion is correct- no matter how bad the situation is- we cannot start bending or throw out habeas corpus- the right to be informed of why you are detained/arrested and the right to challenge those charges in front of a Court/tribunal......

All the constitutionalists- and constitutional scholars are saying the same thing---- the Supreme Court bent over backwards with the new law, King Georges throwing out of habeas corpus- and allowed it-- until 4-5-6 years had passed and these people being detained weren't even being given status hearings- or regular reviews in front of military tribunals- and that it appeared that this would/could continue indefinitely- especially after testimony to the courts/congress showed that some of those being detained had no terrorist connections at all- and that contrary to GW's previous statements the US was using torture contrary to International Law and the Geneva Convention...

Like I said before-- King George brought this ruling upon himself (and the country) with his ARROGANCE believing he could imprison people forever without ever having them allowed a hearing or an appeal- and then International banned torture practices on them.....

What are we left to think about all this? I know what I think about it. Unless and until forum libs denounce Obama for the exact same acts for which they denounced Bush, their cries of indignation ring hollow.

Are you saying that the Obama Administration is not holding hearings on these detainees- or setting them for judgement by either civil trial or military tribunal :???:

Thats totally opposite to what I've been reading... GW got his teat in a wringer with the courts when he held them without ANY type hearing, oversight, or form of Appeal-- just on the word of Himself, Cheney, and old Rummy--even after the Courts told them to do so was unConstitutional....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Seems someone was upset back in 2008 about unjustified wars against countries that had never attacked us and presented no threat to the United States.

Oldtimer said:
hotdryplace said:
'the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians '


OT; Are you calling our troops mass murderers?

Nope- just that their leader who lied and falsified info to bring about an unjustified war-that he sent troops half way around the world to invade a nation that had never attacked us or "presented any threat to the US" - the reason the US has no standing in the world now.......

I'm betting he's really PO'd now. :D

Actually Whitewing-- if you dig back into the archives further-- even tho since the farce in Vietnam, I am not a great fan of US involvement in foreign wars/disputes-- I have supported the President of the United States every time they joined a coalition/international military issue...
Bush 1 in Kuwait, and later the Iraqui no fly zone- Clinton in Kosovo and the Baltics, GW in Afghanistan and in Iraq, and now Obama in Libya... I did so because I believe the Military, State Dept, Intelligence community, and Administration probably have much more knowledge of what is happening or will work than myself or any political blogger sitting at his computer....
I changed my mind on GW after it was shown in Congressional Hearings that he not only put out false info to the public- but censored and altered the NSA reports about Iraq that he gave to Congress...
Remember Colin Powell apologizing to the world for being used by GW in his charade to invade a sovereign nation.... :???:

I have seen nothing that shows that anything Obama or Nato have said about what is happening in Libya is false....


Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right ?

What American citizen did Who order a hit on???????
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
hopalong said:
But where is his indignation at the audacity of Obama to do such an unjust action, where is his posts condemning this POTUS of such an ILLEGAL action ???

I suspect OT's keeping his indignation about unjustified wars in the same spot he's keeping his indignation about the suspension of habeas corpus for Gitmo detainees. A practice his Messiah has also embraced. But The One has one-upped W. Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right?

Oldtimer said:
Even Congress and the President can't throw out the Constitution- and I believe that Kennedy's opinion is correct- no matter how bad the situation is- we cannot start bending or throw out habeas corpus- the right to be informed of why you are detained/arrested and the right to challenge those charges in front of a Court/tribunal......

All the constitutionalists- and constitutional scholars are saying the same thing---- the Supreme Court bent over backwards with the new law, King Georges throwing out of habeas corpus- and allowed it-- until 4-5-6 years had passed and these people being detained weren't even being given status hearings- or regular reviews in front of military tribunals- and that it appeared that this would/could continue indefinitely- especially after testimony to the courts/congress showed that some of those being detained had no terrorist connections at all- and that contrary to GW's previous statements the US was using torture contrary to International Law and the Geneva Convention...

Like I said before-- King George brought this ruling upon himself (and the country) with his ARROGANCE believing he could imprison people forever without ever having them allowed a hearing or an appeal- and then International banned torture practices on them.....

What are we left to think about all this? I know what I think about it. Unless and until forum libs denounce Obama for the exact same acts for which they denounced Bush, their cries of indignation ring hollow.

Are you saying that the Obama Administration is not holding hearings on these detainees- or setting them for judgement by either civil trial or military tribunal :???:

Thats totally opposite to what I've been reading... GW got his teat in a wringer with the courts when he held them without ANY type hearing, oversight, or form of Appeal-- just on the word of Himself, Cheney, and old Rummy--even after the Courts told them to do so was unConstitutional....

You don't read much, do you?

I'm saying that the Obama Administration, in many instances, is doing exactly the same things that you and your Messiah blasted him on. For instance, here's a story from....oh look, tomorrow's Telegraph about his administration holding detainees INDEFINITELY without trial.

Barack Obama to hold 50 Guantánamo detainees without trial

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/7054981/Barack-Obama-to-hold-50-Guantnamo-detainees-without-trial.html

Read it and weep OT.

Yeah, I know what you'll really do, you'll try to nuance the heck out of the situation, looking for the slightest of shifts in their stance that will give you and your koolaid drinking buddies cover. But that was the purpose of this thread in the first place....to demonstrate that the left's outrage and indignation morphs depending on who is in office
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Seems someone was upset back in 2008 about unjustified wars against countries that had never attacked us and presented no threat to the United States.

Oldtimer said:
Nope- just that their leader who lied and falsified info to bring about an unjustified war-that he sent troops half way around the world to invade a nation that had never attacked us or "presented any threat to the US" - the reason the US has no standing in the world now.......

I'm betting he's really PO'd now. :D

Actually Whitewing-- if you dig back into the archives further-- even tho since the farce in Vietnam, I am not a great fan of US involvement in foreign wars/disputes-- I have supported the President of the United States every time they joined a coalition/international military issue...
Bush 1 in Kuwait, and later the Iraqui no fly zone- Clinton in Kosovo and the Baltics, GW in Afghanistan and in Iraq, and now Obama in Libya... I did so because I believe the Military, State Dept, Intelligence community, and Administration probably have much more knowledge of what is happening or will work than myself or any political blogger sitting at his computer....
I changed my mind on GW after it was shown in Congressional Hearings that he not only put out false info to the public- but censored and altered the NSA reports about Iraq that he gave to Congress...
Remember Colin Powell apologizing to the world for being used by GW in his charade to invade a sovereign nation.... :???:

I have seen nothing that shows that anything Obama or Nato have said about what is happening in Libya is false....


Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right ?

What American citizen did Who order a hit on???????

This one, reported by the New York Times, no less.

U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html

The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday.

========

No trial, no hearings, no day in court. Nothing.

Now, after you're finished apologizing for that one, please direct me to the evidence of Bush knowingly using false info before the American public and altering reports before Congress.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Seems bi-partisanship too was once high on OT's list of Good Things a Good President does.

Oldtimer said:
Presidents of the past used much of their power to work with the leadership of both houses to work out legislation which was needed/beneficial/believed necessary at the time....Even Clinton did at times....
Now all it seems to be is confrontation- and in doing so is further dividing the population.....

The leaders of this country should try to run this country and set policy by what the feelings of the majority of the people of the country want-instead of the current policy of whichever lobbyiest pays the most money-- and especially not doing as GW has by arrogantly promoting a policy of avoiding enforcement of the laws he doesn't like, while often going against the wishes of the nation...

Obama's valiant efforts to compromise with Republicans on ObamaCare must have made our forum liberals proud. :lol:

And is he really whining about the power of lobbyists??? :???:

If you go back and look- prior to the Bush Bust- Health Care/Health Care Insurance Reform was the #1 issue in all the polls that were taken for years on issues that the people of the country wanted taken up... It even superseded opposition to Iraq after GW's lies became known...Remember it was GW's #1 campaign promise- of which after he got in office he did nothing... Instead actually gave the pharmaceuticals a bigger ability to rip off Americans when he declared Canadian drugs (identical to those in US) unsafe and illegal to be sold in the US- and stopped government programs from using "generics"....

I remember quite clearly that even some of the most conservative of Congressmen said they had put off the issue so long that now "Doing nothing is no longer an option"..


Congress did something- and I watched much of the hearings- and Republicans were given plenty of input...And some of the issues some of the uninformed radical right is screaming the loudest about was issues put in by Republicans...
It just so happens the Repubs did nothing when they were in the majority- so ended up getting the law the Dems wanted...

Is the bill/law perfect-- NO... But in all the years I've been involved with law and legislatures I've never seen a perfect bill/law-- and most need to be altered and changed after they have been in place awhile and it is shown it doesn't work or there are better ways....

I read the other day- where there is a huge lobbying movement to kill the ObamaCare law... The vast majority of the money was coming from those that had been making the biggest killing ripping off people-- the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical industry...
Those folks don't want any oversight or anyone stopping their profiteering... So do you think the info they are putting out about the law and how it will work is the whole truth and nothing but the truth :???:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Just in case you can't bring yourself to read the article about the hit on the Amercan citizen:

It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing, officials said. A former senior legal official in the administration of George W. Bush said he did not know of any American who was approved for targeted killing under the former president.

But, I'm sure somehow this is different. Heck, who am I kidding? OT, who dug up every shred of dirt on Bush that he could find somehow missed this story.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Seems someone was upset back in 2008 about unjustified wars against countries that had never attacked us and presented no threat to the United States.



I'm betting he's really PO'd now. :D

Actually Whitewing-- if you dig back into the archives further-- even tho since the farce in Vietnam, I am not a great fan of US involvement in foreign wars/disputes-- I have supported the President of the United States every time they joined a coalition/international military issue...
Bush 1 in Kuwait, and later the Iraqui no fly zone- Clinton in Kosovo and the Baltics, GW in Afghanistan and in Iraq, and now Obama in Libya... I did so because I believe the Military, State Dept, Intelligence community, and Administration probably have much more knowledge of what is happening or will work than myself or any political blogger sitting at his computer....
I changed my mind on GW after it was shown in Congressional Hearings that he not only put out false info to the public- but censored and altered the NSA reports about Iraq that he gave to Congress...
Remember Colin Powell apologizing to the world for being used by GW in his charade to invade a sovereign nation.... :???:

I have seen nothing that shows that anything Obama or Nato have said about what is happening in Libya is false....


Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right ?

What American citizen did Who order a hit on???????

This one, reported by the New York Times, no less.

U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html

The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday.

========

No trial, no hearings, no day in court. Nothing.

Now, after you're finished apologizing for that one, please direct me to the evidence of Bush knowingly using false info before the American public and altering reports before Congress.


As a general principle, international law permits the use of lethal force against individuals and groups that pose an imminent threat to a country, and officials said that was the standard used in adding names to the list of targets. In addition, Congress approved the use of military force against Al Qaeda after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. People on the target list are considered to be military enemies of the United States and therefore not subject to the ban on political assassination first approved by President Gerald R. Ford.

Both the C.I.A. and the military maintain lists of terrorists linked to Al Qaeda and its affiliates who are approved for capture or killing, former officials said. But because Mr. Awlaki is an American, his inclusion on those lists had to be approved by the National Security Council, the officials said.

The United Nations Security Council placed al-Awlaki on its UN Security Council Resolution 1267 list of individuals associated with al-Qaeda, saying in its summary of reasons that he is a leader of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and was involved in recruiting and training camps.

Al-Awlaki was charged in absentia in Sana'a, Yemen, on November 2 with plotting to kill foreigners and being a member of al-Qaeda. Ali al-Saneaa, the head of the prosecutor's office, announced the charges as part of a trial against another man, Hisham Assem, who had been accused of killing a Frenchman, also saying that al-Awlaki corresponded with Assem for months, encouraging him to kill foreigners. The prosecutor said:

Yesterday a regular visitor of bars and discotheques in America ... Awlaki today has become the catalyst for shedding the blood of foreigners and security forces. He was chosen by Al-Qaeda to be the lead in many of their criminal operations in Yemen. Awlaki is a figure prone to evil devoid of any conscience, religion, or law.

A lawyer for al-Awlaki denied he was linked to the Frenchman's murder.On November 6, Yemeni Judge Mohsen Alwan ordered that al-Awlaki be caught "dead or alive".

My understanding is that al Awlaki is one of those dual citizens the US continues to stupidly allow exist... Claiming both Yemeni and US citizenship...

Looks to me like the old Wanted-Dead or Alive that has a long precedent in our country with both citizens and noncitizens...

And it looks to me like he definitely has had oversight and that this is not just on the word of one person (President Obama) -- and that he has been declared an International Criminal not only by the US National Security Council- but also NATO and foreign courts...

Even US civil law allows all means of force be used when arresting a criminal who's escape presents a danger to the public....
 

Steve

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
hopalong said:
But where is his indignation at the audacity of Obama to do such an unjust action, where is his posts condemning this POTUS of such an ILLEGAL action ???

I suspect OT's keeping his indignation about unjustified wars in the same spot he's keeping his indignation about the suspension of habeas corpus for Gitmo detainees. A practice his Messiah has also embraced. But The One has one-upped W. Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right?

Oldtimer said:
Even Congress and the President can't throw out the Constitution- and I believe that Kennedy's opinion is correct- no matter how bad the situation is- we cannot start bending or throw out habeas corpus- the right to be informed of why you are detained/arrested and the right to challenge those charges in front of a Court/tribunal......

All the constitutionalists- and constitutional scholars are saying the same thing---- the Supreme Court bent over backwards with the new law, King Georges throwing out of habeas corpus- and allowed it-- until 4-5-6 years had passed and these people being detained weren't even being given status hearings- or regular reviews in front of military tribunals- and that it appeared that this would/could continue indefinitely- especially after testimony to the courts/congress showed that some of those being detained had no terrorist connections at all- and that contrary to GW's previous statements the US was using torture contrary to International Law and the Geneva Convention...

Like I said before-- King George brought this ruling upon himself (and the country) with his ARROGANCE believing he could imprison people forever without ever having them allowed a hearing or an appeal- and then International banned torture practices on them.....

What are we left to think about all this? I know what I think about it. Unless and until forum libs denounce Obama for the exact same acts for which they denounced Bush, their cries of indignation ring hollow.

Are you saying that the Obama Administration is not holding hearings on these detainees- or setting them for judgement by either civil trial or military tribunal :???:

Thats totally opposite to what I've been reading... GW got his teat in a wringer with the courts when he held them without ANY type hearing, oversight, or form of Appeal-- just on the word of Himself, Cheney, and old Rummy--even after the Courts told them to do so was unConstitutional....

yep.. that is what most of the US and world is seeing and saying...

and if you doubt my word.. try reading this..

On March 7, 2011 President Obama has given the green light to resume military trials, conducted by military officers, with a military judge presiding, of terror suspects detained at Guantánamo Bay.[224] He also signed an executive order that moved to set into law the already existing practice on Guantánamo of holding detainees indefinitely without charge

when it comes to throwing out the constitution and habeas corpus it looks as if Obama already threw out alot more then Bush ever considered..
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
My understanding is that al Awlaki is one of those dual citizens the US continues to stupidly allow exist... Claiming both Yemeni and US citizenship...

Looks to me like the old Wanted-Dead or Alive that has a long precedent in our country with both citizens and noncitizens...

And it looks to me like he definitely has had oversight and that this is not just on the word of one person (President Obama) -- and that he has been declared an International Criminal not only by the US National Security Council- but also NATO and foreign courts...

Even US civil law allows all means of force be used when arresting a criminal who's escape presents a danger to the public....

Okay, just so I can understand your logic here OT, as long as Obama is President, an American citizen who has not had a single judicial hearing can be targeted for assassination as long as the CIA, NSA and the HNIC all say it's okay? Is that how it works?

But if George W. Bush is President, a non-American picked up on a foreign battlefield cannot be held indefinitely without habeas corpus, day in court, miranda rights, yada yada yada.

Tell me, is that how it works?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
I suspect OT's keeping his indignation about unjustified wars in the same spot he's keeping his indignation about the suspension of habeas corpus for Gitmo detainees. A practice his Messiah has also embraced. But The One has one-upped W. Let's face it OT, not even King George ordered a hit on an American citizen without so much as giving the guy a single day in court. Right?



What are we left to think about all this? I know what I think about it. Unless and until forum libs denounce Obama for the exact same acts for which they denounced Bush, their cries of indignation ring hollow.

Are you saying that the Obama Administration is not holding hearings on these detainees- or setting them for judgement by either civil trial or military tribunal :???:

Thats totally opposite to what I've been reading... GW got his teat in a wringer with the courts when he held them without ANY type hearing, oversight, or form of Appeal-- just on the word of Himself, Cheney, and old Rummy--even after the Courts told them to do so was unConstitutional....

yep.. that is what most of the US and world is seeing and saying...

and if you doubt my word.. try reading this..

On March 7, 2011 President Obama has given the green light to resume military trials, conducted by military officers, with a military judge presiding, of terror suspects detained at Guantánamo Bay.[224] He also signed an executive order that moved to set into law the already existing practice on Guantánamo of holding detainees indefinitely without charge

when it comes to throwing out the constitution and habeas corpus it looks as if Obama already threw out alot more then Bush ever considered..

Which has precedence since WWII when many hardline "Nazi's" were held for years- even for years after the war ended- put thru antiNazification training- until they were believed to be safe for release...

Which the courts seemed to indicate in the rulings to GW would be constitutional as long as they had periodic reviews of their individual cases/situations by tribunals-- which GW got his teat in a wringer by refusing to do after some of the tribunal courts set some free....
 

Steve

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
Oldtimer said:
Are you saying that the Obama Administration is not holding hearings on these detainees- or setting them for judgement by either civil trial or military tribunal :???:

Thats totally opposite to what I've been reading... GW got his teat in a wringer with the courts when he held them without ANY type hearing, oversight, or form of Appeal-- just on the word of Himself, Cheney, and old Rummy--even after the Courts told them to do so was unConstitutional....

yep.. that is what most of the US and world is seeing and saying...

and if you doubt my word.. try reading this..

On March 7, 2011 President Obama has given the green light to resume military trials, conducted by military officers, with a military judge presiding, of terror suspects detained at Guantánamo Bay.[224] He also signed an executive order that moved to set into law the already existing practice on Guantánamo of holding detainees indefinitely without charge

when it comes to throwing out the constitution and habeas corpus it looks as if Obama already threw out alot more then Bush ever considered..

Which has precedence since WWII when many hardline "Nazi's" were held for years- even for years after the war ended- put thru antiNazification training- until they were believed to be safe for release...

Which the courts seemed to indicate in the rulings to GW would be constitutional as long as they had periodic reviews of their individual cases/situations by tribunals-- which GW got his teat in a wringer by refusing to do after some of the tribunal courts set some free....

so it doesn't bother you that obama has banned periodic reviews of their individual cases/situations by tribunals up until a few weeks ago?

and that not one of the same liberals who sued Bush over the same policy are now mute?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
yep.. that is what most of the US and world is seeing and saying...

and if you doubt my word.. try reading this..



when it comes to throwing out the constitution and habeas corpus it looks as if Obama already threw out alot more then Bush ever considered..

Which has precedence since WWII when many hardline "Nazi's" were held for years- even for years after the war ended- put thru antiNazification training- until they were believed to be safe for release...

Which the courts seemed to indicate in the rulings to GW would be constitutional as long as they had periodic reviews of their individual cases/situations by tribunals-- which GW got his teat in a wringer by refusing to do after some of the tribunal courts set some free....

so it doesn't bother you that obama has banned periodic reviews of their individual cases/situations by tribunals up until a few weeks ago?

and that not one of the same liberals who sued Bush over the same policy are now mute?

They didn't sound too mute to me-- ACLU has been raising all kinds of He!!- and have several suits still going over handling of terrorists....
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
But you can't bring yourself to say a negative word about Obama, can you OT? Remember the word I used? Nuance. That would be you.
 
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