• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

A good Christian example?

Disagreeable

Well-known member
But it's ok. He wasn't charged with anything. Let's think about the legal side, not the moral side. ROTFLMAO! Link below; my emphasis.

A bipartisan Senate report released on Thursday documented more than $5.3 million in payments to Ralph Reed, the former director of the Christian Coalition and a leading Republican Party strategist, from an influence-peddling operation run by the corrupt lobbyist Jack Abramoff on behalf of Indian tribe casinos.
The report by the Senate Indian Affairs Committee portrayed Mr. Reed, now a candidate for the Republican nomination for lieutenant governor in his home state of Georgia, as a central figure in Mr. Abramoff's lobbying operation, the focus of a criminal investigation by the Justice Department.
Mr. Reed was depicted as having used his contacts among conservative Christian groups in the South and Southwest beginning in the late 1990's to block the opening or expansion of casinos that might compete with the gambling operations of Mr. Abramoff's clients.”


So all the time Ralph Reed was preaching that gambling was a sin, he was raking in big bucks from Abramoff to protect his gambling interests! Tell me, when are you guys going to get tired of being jerked around by these people?

More at the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/washington/23abramoff.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Disagreeable said:
But it's ok. He wasn't charged with anything. Let's think about the legal side, not the moral side. ROTFLMAO! Link below; my emphasis.

A bipartisan Senate report released on Thursday documented more than $5.3 million in payments to Ralph Reed, the former director of the Christian Coalition and a leading Republican Party strategist, from an influence-peddling operation run by the corrupt lobbyist Jack Abramoff on behalf of Indian tribe casinos.
The report by the Senate Indian Affairs Committee portrayed Mr. Reed, now a candidate for the Republican nomination for lieutenant governor in his home state of Georgia, as a central figure in Mr. Abramoff's lobbying operation, the focus of a criminal investigation by the Justice Department.
Mr. Reed was depicted as having used his contacts among conservative Christian groups in the South and Southwest beginning in the late 1990's to block the opening or expansion of casinos that might compete with the gambling operations of Mr. Abramoff's clients.”


So all the time Ralph Reed was preaching that gambling was a sin, he was raking in big bucks from Abramoff to protect his gambling interests! Tell me, when are you guys going to get tired of being jerked around by these people?

More at the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/washington/23abramoff.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Ralph Reed is probably going to get in a little trouble over this one. He brought the Christian Right into dirty sleazy politics. Another reason the christian rt. should not get involved in politics with politicians but instead help them maintiain their moral course. If a politician has a moral side, it is usually whittled away by the evils of money power or the bubble that is made by being in power. That is the work of lobbyists.

Ralph Reed proves the old adage that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Sometimes this happens unknowingly. It would be hard to convince me that Ralph is that dumb. He is just using the christian rt. in the republican campaigns for corporations against each other and against the public's interests. It is a total missuse of power and influence. He should be ashamed but shame does not come to an empty conscience. Lou Dobbs has this one right. The following is a little tidbit:



The gambling work is just one instance in which Reed has used his credentials with the religious right to further his clients' business agendas. Since its founding in 1997, his consulting firm, Century Strategies, has racked up millions in fees from companies including Enron, Microsoft, Verizon, and other Fortune 100 companies, according to sources familiar with its client list.

Reed's value to corporate America has been enhanced by his close ties to the Bush administration and especially to Karl Rove, the president's chief political guru. Not long after Century Strategies started, Rove reportedly helped Reed land an Enron contract worth at least $300,000 to help build support for energy deregulation. Century Strategies did voter-mobilization work for the Bush campaign and the Republican National Committee in 2000; it has been retained again this year for similar projects. Reed has also been serving as Southeast regional coordinator for the Bush campaign, with responsibility for delivering Florida and four other Southern states. Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman has called Reed "the guy who gets it done" in the South, especially in reaching out to evangelicals and other religious groups and advising the national campaign on strategy.

Here is a more in depth look at Ralph:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Ralph_Reed#.2
 

Steve

Well-known member
For Many years Christians stayed out of politics, only to see politics continuely attack Christianity through laws and ineffective leadership....so some decided to fight for there values, and a few of the many, were suduced by the abundant corruption they fought against,...


so if a Christian leader involved in politics slips he should be punished by the law he corrupted......as any political leader should.....the differance is the godless politician with out faith will only be punished,,,the Christian leader will also be forgiven.......

but then again when the Dis attacks Christians ......we can see who she sides with.......the GODless politician attacking christian values....

as many know all are sinners.....those with out sin cast the first stone.....
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Steve said:
For Many years Christians stayed out of politics, only to see politics continuely attack Christianity through laws and ineffective leadership....so some decided to fight for there values, and a few of the many, were suduced by the abundant corruption they fought against,...


so if a Christian leader involved in politics slips he should be punished by the law he corrupted......as any political leader should.....the differance is the godless politician with out faith will only be punished,,,the Christian leader will also be forgiven.......

but then again when the Dis attacks Christians ......we can see who she sides with.......the GODless politician attacking christian values....

as many know all are sinners.....those with out sin cast the first stone.....

I'm a Christian, Steve. And I'm tired of the Republican party highjacking my religion. I agree with Mark Parkinson, the former GOP party chairman, in Kansas who is now a Democrat. Link below; my emphasis.


"It was that as he left Parkinson lambasted his former party's obsession with conservative and religious issues such as gay marriage, evolution and abortion.

Sitting in his headquarters, the new Democrat is sticking to his guns. Republicans in Kansas, he says, have let down their own people. 'They were fixated on ideological issues that really don't matter to people's everyday lives. What matters is improving schools and creating jobs,' he said. 'I got tired of the theological debate over whether Charles Darwin was right.'


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1805330,00.html
 

the chief

Well-known member
Steve said:
For Many years Christians stayed out of politics,

I don't know where you came up with that Steve. This country, the USA, was founded by Christians who left England for religious freedom. Many of those who first governed this country were christian. Those who crafted the declaration of Independence and other important documents based them on their strong belief in God.

So, for you to state that Christians stayed out of politics is absurd. They may have kept their beliefs quiet, but they certainly didn't stay out of politics.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
I agree reader, it has been the mobilizing of the christian rt. on moral issues for political purposes. The political actions, like the lobbying scandals (abrahmoff deal is only one), and the stacking of our federal judiciary, are in direct conflict with the morals of the christian rt. It is a hypocritical stance.

Although there are some tweaking of the laws that can be done, most of the moral and ethical issues must be dealt with on a personal basis, not a legal basis. Some of the muslims have opted to go with the legal basis of religion in the law and see where it has lead their view of the world.

If we go into legalism from and enforcement standpoint under the powers of the state instead of the education and powers of the individual choice, we will lose this war. I personally think it is in some ways a cop out for the religous side to expect man's law to rule over what should be laws of individual conscience. It allows religion to sit back and allow government to affect creation instead of doing it themselves on a personal level as Christians were instructed to do.

Basically, I believe in the inviobility of right to chose (this isn't the abortion debate, this is the right God gave man) but a responsibility of society to influence individuals to make the right choices. They can not be merged. Communism tried that and it failed. We must not forget the nature of man.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Disagreeable said:
I'm a Christian, Steve.
Interesting! Would you care to explain why you are a Christian ? You have posted several posts about Christianity or Christians which were negative , even emphasizing the hypocrisy in some people who claim to be Christian but fail to act like one. I'm curious why you would want to be one with the feelings you have towards them.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Disagreeable said:
I'm a Christian, Steve.
Interesting! Would you care to explain why you are a Christian ?

No.

You have posted several posts about Christianity or Christians which were negative , even emphasizing the hypocrisy in some people who claim to be Christian but fail to act like one. I'm curious why you would want to be one with the feelings you have towards them.

I'm against hypocrites and have felt for a very long time that many in the religious right are a bunch of hypocrites. Tom DeLay, for example, went onto the floor of the House and pushed a bill to stop Terri Schiavo's husband from disconnecting her life support. Yet his own father was removed from life support, with his blessings. Ralph Reed is finally showing his true colors as is Reverend Tim LaHaye, co-founder of a group calling themselves the "Moral Majority." You, on the other hand, seem to not be bothered by these people who have been leaders in the religious right for so many years. Apparently if they say what you want to hear, they can get away with anything.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Would I be correct in saying then that you think the liberal Christian community best represents the wishes and follows the instructions of the one you love, Jesus Christ, the closest and there aren't as many fakes in the liberal Christian camp? Jessie Jackson for example would be your ideal of a Christian politician?
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Disagreeable said:
Hypocrite! Any respectable Christian would take the opportunity given to give a testimony how Christ is real and personal in their life. You are a hypocrite for being a Christian , yet , not acting like one. You should be ashamed.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Would I be correct in saying then that you think the liberal Christian community best represents the wishes and follows the instructions of the one you love, Jesus Christ, the closest and there aren't as many fakes in the liberal Christian camp? Jessie Jackson for example would be your ideal of a Christian politician?

What's he running for? I didn't know he was a politician, and doubt that you know that either. Jesse can't seem to let the spotlight go. When a mike is stuck in front of his face, he just has to talk and talk and talk. Sometimes I just want to say "shut up, Jesse." But he has never wavered in his preaching of love, peace, forgiveness, and compassion for the less fortunate.

On the other hand we have Ralph Reed, the SE coordinator of the Bush Campaign two years ago. He founded the Christian Coalition, built with the money of many conservative Christians who thought he represented their values. One big plank in his "family values" platform was an anti-gambling plank. He's on record that gambling is a "cancer on the American body politic" and that gambling was "stealing food from the mouths of children." He used the CC to vault into the national spotlight, even being mentioned as a VP candidate back in 1999. Now we know that he's taken almost $4million from the Abramoff group to protect the gambling casinos of Abramoff's clients. He's raking in the big dough while his Christian Coalition is about broke. You'd think he could spare a $million or so to help them out, considering how he used them to get where he is today.

Then we have the Reverend Tim LaHaye, cofounder of the Moral Majority. The Moral Majority was also built with conservative Christian's dollars. They contributed and supported the MM because they believed it represented their moral values. The MM, in case you don't remember, was big on telling us how to live our lives. They whined and cried that society was damaging our children, especially music, videos and TV. Remember the Teletubbies (sp?). Jerry Falwell made the news when he complained that one of them was gay! I think he based that claim on the color that particular tubby wore. :roll: Now we find that the Reverend LaHaye is working to produce a video that teaches exactly the same thing that Osama Bin Laden teaches: that it's ok to kill non believers. If they get the thing on the market by Christmas, he'll make a killing (no pun intended) over the holiday.

Jesse Jackson is not a perfect man, he has his character flaws, but between these three men, yes, I say Jesse better represents the teachings of Jesus Christ. As far as I know, he hasn't turned his back on his beliefs. I think he has a good heart. I think these other two guys have hearts filled with greed.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Red Robin said:
Disagreeable said:
Hypocrite! Any respectable Christian would take the opportunity given to give a testimony how Christ is real and personal in their life. You are a hypocrite for being a Christian , yet , not acting like one. You should be ashamed.

There you go, telling me what a "respectable Christian" would do. You don't get to make the rules for my religion. If it hurts you feelings when I point out some of the leaders in your Religious Right are hypocrites, that's too bad. It's the truth. These guys take your money, say what you want to hear until they get elected, then ignore you until another election comes along. Then they say the words again, "ban gay marriage", "ban flag burning", "send the Mexicans back to Mexico" until you donate more money and get them elected, then they ignore you again until the next election. How many times are you willing to accept being treated like that? How many times does it take before you notice?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Just might be me...but I thought Christians didn't lower them selves to name calling and trash talking!!! :???: :???: :???: :???:

Looks like we got one that does!!!!
 
Top