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A letter................

kolanuraven

Well-known member
From Young's letter, published on TruthDig:

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/tomas-young-letter-iraq_n_2908335.html
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Kolo, $100 says that you can't cite the war crime that you appear to be endorsing the condemnation of. I'd also like you to detail the "plunder" that we received.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
From Young's letter, published on TruthDig:

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/tomas-young-letter-iraq_n_2908335.html

Already been posted by another Huff groupie.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
kolanuraven said:
From Young's letter, published on TruthDig:

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/tomas-young-letter-iraq_n_2908335.html

Already been posted by another Huff groupie.




You are worried about who pub'd it.......it what is in the letter that is important that you refuse to acknowledge
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Whitewing said:
kolanuraven said:
From Young's letter, published on TruthDig:

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/tomas-young-letter-iraq_n_2908335.html

Already been posted by another Huff groupie.




You are worried about who pub'd it.......it what is in the letter that is important that you refuse to acknowledge

Why would I be worried about who published it? It was published by a wounded vet named Thomas Young. He has every right in the world to publish his opinions on the war in Iraq, Bush, Cheney, etc.
 

Larrry

Well-known member
So you want us to comment on a letter.

But you and the leftwingernut teabagee regime zombies fail to even read what is in the Constitution
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
Whitewing said:
kolanuraven said:
From Young's letter, published on TruthDig:

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/tomas-young-letter-iraq_n_2908335.html

Already been posted by another Huff groupie.




You are worried about who pub'd it.......it what is in the letter that is important that you refuse to acknowledge

I acknowledged content of the letter and posed a question back to you, which you haven't acknowledged.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Mr. Young is now the darling of the left because he calls Bush-Cheney war criminals, and makes lots of other nasty, unfounded assertions about the war in Iraq.

There was once another darling of the left for the same reasons but when she also critized the King's foregin policies, she was dropped like a hot potato. Such is the capricious moral outrage of liberals.

Hey morally outraged libs, remember me?
200px-Cindy_Sheehan_at_White_House.jpg
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
You're right, Whitewing. They like what he said and parrot accordingly, but try to get them to rationalize the content. They can't do it. Kolo here is a prime example. I tossed a couple of questions her way, but there is no way that she can handle them. She won't be able to come up with a reply - yet there she is spreading it. For once I would like to see a liberal do something that a parrot can't.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
From Young's letter, published on TruthDig:

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney. I write not because I think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, I want to make it clear that I, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in Iraq and the Middle East, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/19/tomas-young-letter-iraq_n_2908335.html

One out of 100. The other 99 of each 100 are proud of their service in Iraq and proud of the administration. They gave the people of a country the opportunity to enjoy freedom for the first time in their life. Most say they would do it over again if asked.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
You're right, Whitewing. They like what he said and parrot accordingly, but try to get them to rationalize the content. They can't do it. Kolo here is a prime example. I tossed a couple of questions her way, but there is no way that she can handle them. She won't be able to come up with a reply - yet there she is spreading it. For once I would like to see a liberal do something that a parrot can't.

More than once I've challenged our forum libs (and whoever else for that matter) to debate the merits or logic of the day of going to war in Iraq but have had no takers to date.

They have responded with numerous posts of pre-war opinions and comments from assorted high government officials, columnists, preachers, etc which later turned out to be wrong and imply that those comments somehow represent a deliberate misleading of, or outright lying to the American people.

Interestingly, the same people who quote the erroneous opinions of high government officials on the Iraq war, are ready to bend over and spread their ass cheeks for the opinions of high government officials that the King will use to determine which American citizen gets to die in a drone attack without a day in court.

:roll:

Sure makes perfect sense to me.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Red Cross confirms Bush administration, CIA used torture in interrogations

By Patrick Martin
7 August 2007

A confidential report by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) suggests that Bush administration officials may have committed war crimes in the operation of CIA “secret prisons” overseas, according to a lengthy analysis published on the web site of the New Yorker magazine Sunday.

The Red Cross report concluded that the methods used in the CIA interrogation of alleged 9/11 terrorist Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other Al Qaeda prisoners were “tantamount to torture” and that Bush administration officials had likely committed “grave breaches” of the Geneva Conventions.


The article by Jane Mayer, entitled “The Black Sites,” is the product of a series of interviews with former CIA officers involved in operating the agency’s secret prisons overseas, agents who directly participated in torture sessions and apparently concluded that the methods they were employing were either immoral or counterproductive, or both.
----------------



The International Committee of the Red Cross was given access to Mohammed late last year, after his transfer to Guantánamo Bay. The policy of the ICRC is to discuss its findings only with the government holding prisoners in custody, not with the press, in order to insure its continued access to prisoners. But, according to Mayer, the ICRC report on the 15 detainees held in the CIA’s secret prisons was circulated through the very highest levels of the White House, State Department and National Security Council, and to some congressmen on the House and Senate committees that oversee the intelligence agencies.

Mayer cited “congressional and other Washington sources familiar with the report,” writing that “one of the sources said that the Red Cross described the agency’s detention and interrogation methods as tantamount to torture, and declared that American officials responsible for the abusive treatment could have committed serious crimes. The source said the report warned that these officials may have committed ‘grave breaches’ of the Geneva Conventions, and may have violated the US Torture Act.” Mayer adds, “The conclusions of the Red Cross, which is known for its credibility and caution, could have potentially devastating legal ramifications.”

In other words, those US government officials who authorized and carried out the torture of CIA prisoners could face war crimes charges before either an American or international tribunal, as could those who subsequently became aware of what was taking place in the secret prisons and covered it up.

According to Mayer’s article, the CIA use of torture was not a “rogue” operation, but a massive bureaucratic enterprise involving systematic research and development to find the “best” methods for breaking down prisoners. CIA officials reviewed the techniques employed by the Phoenix Program during the Vietnam War as a model for the “war on terror.” The Phoenix Program involved the systematic assassination of an estimated 20,000 cadres, supporters and sympathizers of the National Liberation Front, as well as the widespread torture of prisoners.

The agency also sought interrogation advice from the secret police of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, all of which practice barbaric methods of torture against political prisoners. And one former military interrogator described the techniques of exerting total control over a prisoner’s environment as “the KGB model,” developed during the purges against political dissidents in the former Soviet Union, and subsequently mimicked by the CIA.

Among the techniques used on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed were prolonged sensory deprivation, continuous shackling while naked, use of a dog leash and female interrogators, forcible slamming into the walls of his cell, suspension from the ceiling of the interrogation room by his arms, and the now-notorious practice of waterboarding, the simulated drowning technique employed as torture since medieval times (when it became known as the “Chinese water torture.”)

One interrogation expert told Mayer, referring to the victims of the torture sessions: “People were utterly dehumanized. People fell apart. It was the intentional and systematic infliction of great suffering masquerading as a legal process. It is just chilling.”

The torture was so severe and systematic that it had a profound psychological effect on some of the torturers themselves, according to Mayer, who interviewed one of those who interrogated Mohammed. This interrogator described a fellow torturer who now “has horrible nightmares ... It really haunts him. You are inflicting something really evil and horrible on somebody.”

CIA officials repeatedly voiced concerns that the orders they were receiving from the White House, and particularly from Vice President Dick Cheney, might leave them vulnerable to criminal prosecution, particularly since they were instructed to keep prisoners like Mohammed alive and thereby preserve them as witnesses to their own abuse. As one official told Mayer, in a particularly chilling passage, “It would have been better if we had executed them.”

A former CIA official told Mayer that many agents had taken out liability insurance to help cover the anticipated legal bills when they face prosecution for prisoner abuse. There is a “high level of anxiety about political retribution,” he said, and “several guys expect to be thrown under the bus,” serving as fall guys for the decision-makers at the highest levels, including Bush, Cheney, former CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, who, as White House counsel, supervised the process of giving a legal stamp of approval to torture.

These are also part of the same allegations which also included evidence the administration had censored and altered the National Security Agency's report on the real amount of danger Iraq posed to the US- in order to lead Congress and the public into agreeing to go to war...These were part of the impeachment filings that Pelosi would never let go thru (partially because she was aware and party to what was happening with the torture-- and partially because she said she didn't want to further divide the country and wanted it handled at the polls)....
 

Mike

Well-known member
Poor, poor Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Boo hoo. He had to fess up, unlike Bin Laden..........

Wonder what the Bush detractors would have said if those thugs had taken more lives via the cushy living arrangements they wanted to give those terrorists?

Is Gitmo closed yet?

:lol:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
These are also part of the same allegations which also included evidence the administration had censored and altered the National Security Agency's report on the real amount of danger Iraq posed to the US- in order to lead Congress and the public into agreeing to go to war...These were part of the impeachment filings that Pelosi would never let go thru (partially because she was aware and party to what was happening with the torture-- and partially because she said she didn't want to further divide the country and wanted it handled at the polls)....

I call bullshit on the highlighted part and further bullshit on Pelosi "not wanting to divide the country". What a pile of crap. Like you, that bitch would sell her own soul if it had meant harming Bush in some way.

Now, back to the highlighted part. You've made this assertion repeatedly and repeatedly have failed to provide one shred of evidence that the assertion is true.

Are you going to hold true to form and run away from the assertion yet again by failing to provide evidence? Can you provide anything to back up your claim that Bush censored or altered a National Security Agency report.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
These are also part of the same allegations which also included evidence the administration had censored and altered the National Security Agency's report on the real amount of danger Iraq posed to the US- in order to lead Congress and the public into agreeing to go to war...These were part of the impeachment filings that Pelosi would never let go thru (partially because she was aware and party to what was happening with the torture-- and partially because she said she didn't want to further divide the country and wanted it handled at the polls)....

I call BS on the highlighted part and further BS on Pelosi "not wanting to divide the country". What a pile of crap. Like you, that bitch would sell her own soul if it had meant harming Bush in some way.

Now, back to the highlighted part. You've made this assertion repeatedly and repeatedly have failed to provide one shred of evidence that the assertion is true.

Are you going to hold true to form and run away from the assertion yet again by failing to provide evidence? Can you provide anything to back up your claim that Bush censored or altered a National Security Agency report.

You can go to the Congressional hearings--former Congressman Bob Barr, Vincent Bugliosi (author), numerous government folks, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, numerous Constitutional lawyers ( that all testified enough evidence existed that GW could be charged ) etc. etc... The original report and the altered report were presented as evidence- and I thought a whole bunch of Repub Congressmen were going to blow a vein when they found how they were duped by old GW...
I don't need to look it up- I saw it on C-SPAN when it happened......


The most significant of these efforts occurred on June 10, 2008, when Congressman Dennis Kucinich, along with co-sponsor Robert Wexler, introduced 35 articles of impeachment against Bush to the U.S. House of Representatives. The House voted 251 to 166 to refer the impeachment resolution to the Judiciary Committee on July 25, where no further action was taken on it. Bush's presidency ended on January 20, 2009, with the completion of his second term in office, rendering impeachment efforts moot.



Kucinich introduces Bush impeachment resolution
June 11, 2008


Rep. Dennis Kucinich, a former Democratic presidential candidate from Ohio, introduced a resolution to impeach President Bush into the House of Representatives on Tuesday.

Kucinich announced his intention to seek Bush's impeachment Monday night, when he read the lengthy document into the record.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has repeatedly said she would not support a resolution calling for Bush's impeachment, saying such a move was unlikely to succeed and would be divisive.

Most of the congressman's resolution deals with the Iraq war, contending that the president manufactured a false case for the war, violated U.S. and international law to invade Iraq, failed to provide troops with proper equipment and falsified casualty reports for political purposes.
 

Mike

Well-known member
I don't need to look it up- I saw it on C-SPAN when it happened......
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have we heard this before? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What's funny is Congress ran from Kucinich like he had Smallpox.........they didn't want any association with that kook. I know, I saw it on C-Span. :lol:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
OldIDreamedItOnCSPAN said:
The original report and the altered report were presented as evidence- and I thought a whole bunch of Repub Congressmen were going to blow a vein when they found how they were duped by old GW...
I don't need to look it up- I saw it on C-SPAN when it happened......

You don't need to look it up because you saw it on C-SPAN. :lol:

How dare we not trust the word of the same guy who sat down at his local watering hole with a bunch of Keystone Pipeline execs and heard them saying that NIMBY's and greenie weenies in Nebraska were screwing up their chances of building the pipeline?

Seriously you old fool, if the original report and the altered report were presented to Congress as evidence, shouldn't you be able to link us to a single source, just one, that the event actually took place as you claim it took place? Just one.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
OldIDreamedItOnCSPAN said:
The original report and the altered report were presented as evidence- and I thought a whole bunch of Repub Congressmen were going to blow a vein when they found how they were duped by old GW...
I don't need to look it up- I saw it on C-SPAN when it happened......

You don't need to look it up because you saw it on C-SPAN. :lol:

How dare we not trust the word of the same guy who sat down at his local watering hole with a bunch of Keystone Pipeline execs and heard them saying that NIMBY's and greenie weenies in Nebraska were screwing up their chances of building the pipeline?

Seriously you old fool, if the original report and the altered report were presented to Congress as evidence, shouldn't you be able to link us to a single source, just one, that the event actually took place as you claim it took place? Just one.

Like I said- I don't need to see it as I watched the hearing...And I could find sworn testimony from the Pope that he saw it- and your biased mind would find fault...

As far as the Keystone deal-- wrong again... It wasn't at the local watering hole- it was at the Elks Lodgeroom...
 
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